83 Weeks - Paul Orndorff [Show Notes] (Patreon)

Sadly we lost one of the legends of the 1980s this past week when “Mr. Wonderful” Paul Orndorff passed away at the age of 71 on July 12th. He had such a wild career based around peaks and valleys and being invested in professional wrestling for sometime.

His story begins when he was born on October 29, 1949 in Winchester, Virginia. Orndorff was a super high school athlete, nicknamed “The Brandon Bull” as he was the star of the Brandon High School football and track team from Brandon, Florida before moving on to the University of Tampa where he started as a full back and tight end. Eric, he was 5’10 ½” and 220 pounds so from the start he was bigger than perceived.

He was good enough to be drafted in the 12th round in the 1973 NFL Draft by the New Orleans Saints. He didn’t make it through camp as he claimed he was home sick which is pretty ironic considering he ended up being a pro wrestler and he was never home isn’t it?

He goes back again in 1974 to camp with the Chicago Bears but leaves again and plays for the Jacksonville Express of the World Football League in 1975 but gets hurt and leaves. Just to put that in perspective...10 years later...10 years Eric...he’s main eventing the first WrestleMania. It’s crazy how fast life can come at you right?

He becomes a no holds barred fighter before there’s MMA and an arm wrestler where he wins the Florida state championship in 1976 before Eddie Graham discovers him on the recommendation of Tom McEwen who was the sports editor of the Tampa Tribune. It’s always been said that Graham loved tough guys and real athletes...and damn if Paul didn’t fit that wouldn’t you agree?

Orndorff is set up to be trained by the guy who seemed to train most of the major stars in the 1980s, Hiro Matsuda. Did you ever meet Hiro and have any interaction with him?

Hiro’s reputation of putting stars in the wrestling ring is legendary. Hulk Hogan, the Great Muta, Paul Orndorff, Scott Hall, Lex Luger, “Cowboy” Bob Orton & Ron Simmons. Do you know what about Hiro made it possible for these guys to all become big stars?

He doesn’t spend a lot of time in Florida before he starts being sent out to the different territories. When do you first hear of Paul Orndorff?

His star was born when he defeats Jerry Lawler to win the Southern Title less than one year after his debut in 1977. From 1978-1982 in the Superdome for Bill Watts he draws 5 houses of at least 18,000 fans facing Bruiser Brody, Ernie Ladd, Jake Roberts, JYD, and Bob Roop. What a lineup that is Eric. We’re talking about a guy who walked out of football right into professional wrestling and bam he’s drawing these type of houses. How impressive is that?

He’s working in Georgia in 1983 and Vince McMahon pulls Paul from the terrority and sends him to New Japan Pro Wrestling. The rumor and innuendo was that they didn’t want him starting early and peaking like heels did in that territory in the first few months because they were...at that time...planning the national expansion. How fucking smart is Vince to do this back then?

It’s obvious that Paul was one of the building blocks for Vince’s expansion. You take a look at that time, it’s Hulk, Paul, Roddy Piper, Jimmy Snuka. And only Jimmy Snuka is a pushed guy in 1983 for the World Wrestling Federation. Do you think that leads credence to the story that Vince scooped up everyone from every terrority to begin the expansion?

Paul Orndorff debuts on WWF TV by defeating Mark Mattox in November of 1983 and the storyline is all the managers at the time are scouting this new debuting superstars with Freddie Blassie & Lou Albano watching and recruiting. He ends up going with Roddy Piper putting this legendary team together but originally Piper was his manager. If this storyline sounds familiar it’s because they did the exact same thing with Randy Savage a couple years later and him finding Elizabeth as his manager. What did you think of the Orndorff & Piper pairing?

Piper renames Orndorff “Mr. Wonderful” and he makes his MSG debut against Salvatore Bellomo on the same MSG show that Hogan ends up defeating the Iron Sheik for the WWF World Title. It’s amazing what just a little rebranding can do to an act as you can’t look at Paul and not think of “Mr. Wonderful” can you?

We all know the story if you’re listening to this. Piper & Orndorff are the top heels while Hulk Hogan is the top babyface for the WWF and it’s really the greatest house show run in the history of the company when it comes to drawing fans. Did you ever see any of them in person?

The hype of bringing in Mr. T and Cyndi Lauper to square off against Piper & Orndorff with Hogan and the MTV connection leads to WrestleMania 1. How big is this impact on the business in your mind? Are we having this podcast today if not for WrestleMania 1?

The rumor and innuendo at the time and later on was that Orndorff was not happy about losing to Mr. T and his actual payoff as well. The business was a lot different in 1985 compared to now wasn’t it?

They turn Paul babyface afterwards and him and Hogan end up teaming up just to set up another turn later on. It’s one of the classic heel turns where Paul & Hogan team up to face the Heenan Family of King Kong Bundy & John Studd and Orndorff ends up clotheslining Hogan and giving him a Piledriver to join up with Bobby Heenan. Everyone can talk about Jerry Lawler back then but did you think Orndorff had the best piledriver?

This turn sets arena business on fire. On August 28th, 1986 it’s Hogan vs. Orndorff at Exhibition Stadium in Toronto and it draws the first $1 million house not just in North America but in wrestling history with 64,100 fans and 61,000 paid. It’s the most wrestling fans to see a show in history at that point. How stunning is that happens in Canada...it’s not a WrestleMania...all the things we think of now with big houses like the Georgia Dome for WCW and the big arena shows for the WWE now and this is the biggest in 1986?

This show is what launches the thought process of WrestleMania 3 being a possibility with the Pontiac Silverdome since it was close to Toronto as well in Detroit. The crazy thing is...Paul’s not even on WrestleMania 3. The rumor and innuendo is that Paul is the backup plan in case Andre can’t make it to the ring. That has to be a huge disappointment for him doesn’t it?

The Orndorff vs. Hogan feud is blown off in that classic Steel Cage Match on Saturday Night’s Main Event where they both escape and land on the floor but Hogan wins when he lands first. It’s a classic match and the crowd is electric. But this is the end of this run for Paul.

During this amazing house show run Paul is making close to $20,000 a week running all over the country with Hogan on top. But he gets hurt taking a clothesline and landing wrong and his shoulder is in bad shape and has a herniated disc in his neck. A doctor suggested surgery immediately but he didn’t want to give up the money.

When he finally goes in for the surgery there’s permanent damage. His right arm atrophied and he wrestled his last match for the World Wrestling Federation on January 4th, 1988. It’s stunning to have someone just a year and a half earlier set pro wrestling history to out of the business. For him to be able to work that long on that injury and not want to give up the money is one of the toughest things I’ve heard of in pro wrestling. How about you Eric?

Did you ever talk with him after he came to WCW about that?

He returns to wrestling and in fact the NWA/WCW in 1990 and fueds with Arn Anderson to start off with. He wasn’t the same but he was still Mr. Wonderful. Did you see his return in 1990?

He bounces from WCW, to the UWF for Herb Abrams, Smokey Mountain for Jim Cornette but finally returning to WCW in 1992 when Bill Watts brought him back. Do you think at this time there was still an ability to utilize Orndorff?

Orndorff returns in a big way at Center Stage facing off against Ron Simmons for the WCW World Title so he’s immediately pushed to a top spot. He wins the match via countout with help from Rick Rude. Do you know if Watts had big plans for Orndorff?

Watts is replaced in February of 1993 and you’re named Executive Producer. Did you see Orndroff as someone you could use and build upon?

Orndorff and Cactus Jack...that’s a pairing...face off at SuperBrawl and I know you & Pauly B are going to be doing a Watch Along for that match over at AdFreeShows.com so be sure to check that out.

Did you have any discussions when you are promoted to that spot about Orndorff’s contract and standing?

Orndorff defeats Erik Watts in the finals of the TV Title Tournament and it gives Orndorff his first singles title in a national promotion in his career. How crazy is that after all he’s done for the business and what he did with Hogan that this is the first one?

In your experience with Paul was he one of those veterans who showed up, got dressed, worked his match and left or was he a veteran that wanted to help and give back?

Orndorff holds the TV title for a long time...169 days in fact...until he drops the title to Ricky “The Dragon” Steamboat at Clash of the Champions XXIV. He moves from a singles wrestler into a tag team wrestler at this point as Paul Roma ditches the Horsemen and forms the “Pretty Wonderful” team with Paul. Was Paul having issues being a singles wrestler and he needed to be in a tag team or was this a creative decision?

What did you think of putting these two together besides removing Roma from the Horsemen?

They’re originally paired with the Masked Assassin (Jody Hamilton - Nick Patrick’s father and the man who opened the Power Plant). What do you remember of this pairing and why didn’t it last long?

They feud early on with Marcus Alexander Bagwell & 2 Cold Scorpio before moving onto the WCW World Tag Team Titles that are held by Cactus Jack & Kevin Sullivan. From the Observer regarding their WCW World Tag Team Title match at Bash at the Beach 1994:

“5. Pretty Wonderful won the WCW tag titles from Cactus Jack & Kevin Sullivan in 20:11. Although Paul Orndorff is great at working the crowd, these guys are flat when it comes to being tag champs. It wasn't until the last minute that it was even clear Cactus would work, as he was still in rough shape from a back injury suffered in the match against Sabu. WCW officials were also exceedingly upset about Cactus spitting on the belt and throwing it on the ground doing an ECW interview. Brian Pillman was flown in to sub for him, but instead just made a cameo appearance at the Hogan victory party along with Brutus Beefcake, Jim Duggan and Brian Blair. Match was dull. The crowd was doing the wave and paying no attention to the match. It went on forever. Finish saw Jack do the double-arm DDT on Orndorff, but Roma tripped him from outside and with Jack's legs way out of the ring and the ref right there seeing Roma hold them, still counted as Orndorff did the pin. 1/2*”

There’s a lot to unpack there Eric. First off Orndorff wins the first Tag Team Championship of his career. This is Cactus’ last match with WCW and he’s got so much heat on him from his ECW interview from spitting on it you almost had Brian Pillman replace him. Pillman & Sullivan...that team would’ve been interesting. Meltzer calls Pretty Wonderful flat...did you think the same?

Fall Brawl is the next big pay-per-view and Pretty Wonderful is scheduled to take on Stars n Stripes which are Marcus Alexander Bagwell & The Patriot Del Wilkes. Del also recently passed away Eric. Do you have any thoughts and memories on Mr. Wilkes?

They retain in what’s called a ** ¼ match from Meltzer. What did you think of the package at this point of World Tag Team Champions Pretty Wonderful?

On a live Saturday Night Bagwell & the Patriot defeat Pretty Wonderful to win the WCW World Tag Team Titles. Why the move here do you know?

Halloween Havoc 1994 from Detroit sees Pretty Wonderful regain the titles in a ** ¼ match from Meltzer. You’ve talked in the past about how moving titles too quickly can hurt. Did it matter here?

I ask that because at the next Clash of Champions they lose the titles back to Bagwell & Patriot but Orndorff works the match with a blown out knee which at least makes sense for them to drop the titles back. Meltzer gives it ** ¼ which seems to be a theme but Paul misses some time with his knee injury. Did he ever come to you worried about his shoulder and neck?

Orndorff returns and their working tag matches and an interesting one came up in my research. Hulk Hogan & Randy Savage defeated Pretty Wonderful in the main event of a WCW WORLDWIDE show in early February of 95. Were you there and how interesting must’ve that had been?

At SuperBrawl 1995 a classic matchup happens between Alex Wright and Paul Roma with Paul Orndorff at ringside. Supposedly Roma is super unhappy about having to put over Wright and does a piss poor job in doing so. What do you remember about this match and Roma’s attitude?

Slamboree 1995 sees Paul wrestle for the World Title for the first time in almost a decade...but it’s for the IWGP Title against the Great Muta. Meltzer would say: “4. Great Muta retained the IWGP heavyweight title pinning Paul Orndorff in 14:11 with the moonsault. Really dull. I knew it would be bad because Orndorff's slow-paced old-style is all wrong for Muto and Muto is inconsistent to begin with, but it was a surprise just how bad. Muto did his four signature spots (power elbow drop, handspring elbow, facebuster and moonsault), but that was the entire match. 1/2*”

Orndorff wins a Slim Jim tournament on TV. How much did Slim Jim spend for this tournament?

There’s a note in the July 3rd Observer I don’t want to skip over. “Paul Orndorff was at the 6/26 booking committee meeting.”

Was there ever a consideration of putting Paul on the committee?

Supposedly he works as an agent in early July at some Center Stage tapings. What was it about Paul that put him in this role for you?

Now one of the most...we’ll say classic...moments of Paul Orndorff’s WCW career. He goes one-on-one with THE RENEGADE at Bash at the Beach 1995! From Meltzer:

“2. Renegade retained the TV title pinning Paul Orndorff in 6:12. Orndorff worked a solid match, but like Arn Anderson before him, that isn't enough. Highlight was Renegade hitting two of the worst dropkicks on record. Renegade won with a sloppy back suplex with the storyline being Orndorff got his shoulder up but the ref was out of position to see it. Orndorff attacked him and piledrove him after the match, but Renegade popped back up and hit a crossbody. Tons of boos when Renegade popped up. DUD”

My goodness Eric. Is this when Paul decided it was time to get out of the business?

We got a rematch at the next Clash and Meltzer said: “Orndorff took control of the entire match not leaving Renegade even one chance to blow a spot. Renegade then won with a crossbody from the apron into the ring. DUD”

That’s the best way to make good on a Renegade match right?

From the Observer on 8/14/95: “Paul Orndorff now has awful entrance music (part of the gimmick is the music is supposed to be awful) and brings out a mirror and makes the ref hold the mirror as he stares at himself.”

Did you think the music was awful? Why was it important to move him back to being “Mr. Wonderful”?

Also in an amazing tidbit: “The first main event on the Nitro show will be Hogan vs. Orndorff.”

Was this ever in consideration and was a program between the two ever discussed?

Now the story most everyone has been waiting for...from the Observer…

“A backstage brawl between Leon White (Vader) and Paul Orndorff apparently led to renewed negotiations that resulted in Lex Luger shockingly walking on the set for the debut program of WCW Monday Nitro on 9/4 to set up a WCW title match with Hulk Hogan on 9/11.

The White/Orndorff situation took place Wednesday afternoon, several hours before the television taping at Center Stage. White, who according to one report, had arrived late at the building, was told by Orndorff that they wanted him out for interviews with Gene Okerlund. It should be noted that for whatever reason, there was prior heat between the two of them before this took place. White was taking his time and Orndorff started yelling at him, not in as much a bad way as a way that one would figure a high school football coach yelling at a player. WCW officials were saying that if they didn't hurry up and finish the interviews, they'd have to pay dinner pay for the crew because they were already behind schedule. White growled at Orndorff. At this point according to eye witness reports, White and Orndorff traded words, which turned into a cussing contest and grew more heated for several minutes, at which point Orndorff reportedly called White a fat prima-donna. The two by this point were swearing at each other chest-to-chest when reportedly Orndorff told White to make his move. After more of a chest-to-chest swearing contest, White threw a palm blow to the chest which knocked Orndorff down. Orndorff got up and went to tackle White, and while this was going on, the other wrestlers largely did what was described as a pathetic pull-apart. With everyone around, Orndorff threw a perfect left (which is his weak arm) to White's head and knocked him silly, with White hitting the deck. At this point Orndorff threw kick after kick at the stunned White's face while White tried to cover up in the fetal position on the ground before it was broken up. Orndorff was wearing sandles so it minimized the damage from the kicks as compared to the cowboy boots that most wrestlers wear. White's face was a mess at this point with both eyes puffed up from the kicks and a bloody lip and if Orndorff had been wearing cowboy boots, the potential damage could have been very serious.

White was stunned on the ground for several minutes before he finally got his bearings together. When he finally recovered, he went to the office that Orndorff was in and the two started arguing again and went to blows, this time they traded punches with Orndorff coming out of it was a black eye and bloody lip and White, who went into the room with a messed up face, came out even messier before the two were separated again. At this point White was sent home and was pulled from the taping. Orndorff, with a black eye, worked his scheduled squash match at the taping with Barry Houston. Orndorff became something of a John Wayne type hero in the front office since White outweighed him by around 200 pounds and is seven years younger (39 to 46) and Orndorff, who has had a reputation as being a tough guy going back to the early 80s, came out of the confrontation in far better shape. There used to be a joke in wrestling because Orndorff was an avid hunter, that Orndorff really didn't need a weapon to go hunting.”

Eric….when do you hear about this? What are you told? What is your first thought? Did you think this was going to lead to Vader’s eventual dismissal?

From the Fall Brawl 1995 recap and Meltzer: “They aired a video with Paul Orndorff "depressed" after losing a match to Randy Savage (they should have at least made it believable and have him depressed after putting over Renegade). Gary Spivey of the Psychic Hotline showed up with what looked like a sponge on his head and convinced Orndorff that he really was Mr. Wonderful, changing Orndorff's character. The acting by Orndorff in the skit made Hogan look like an Oscar Award winner, but it was almost so bad that it was good.”

What did you think of this Eric? And who the hell is Gary Spivey?

Orndorff’s mirror breaks in a match and he begins to act depressed. What could the payoff of this be Eric?

Finally on a Nitro on December 11th in Charlotte this happens: “They did an angle to make sure Flair was booed by having Flair, Brian Pillman and Anderson (Chris Benoit was in Japan) destroy Orndorff with a stuff piledriver on the floor, and they put a neck brace on Orndorff and carried him out and sent him away in an ambulance on television. I believe Orndorff is undergoing some type of surgery so this was a storyline to explain his absence.”

Now what was happening was his entire right side of his body was starting to develop atrophy...not just his arm but now his leg. Why was now the time to write out Orndorff and why the Horsemen? Was it just to make sure Flair got heel heat in Charlotte?

Was the plan for Paul to retire or take time off and re-evaluate?

Orndorff ends up being part of WCW and the Power Plant. What was your relationship like with Paul after he was done wrestling?

He returns in late 1999 after you were fired Eric and works one match against Ron & Don Harris in a losing effort then makes another return in late 2000 which features him becoming paralyzed in the ring from delivering a piledriver at Fall Brawl which is one of the scarier moments in wrestling history in my opinion. What did you think of the decision to put him back in the ring and how does that even get cleared?

After WCW’s closing he was inducted into the WWE’s Hall of Fame in 2005, and made some appearances on WrestleMania XXX with Hulk, Mr. T, Roddy Piper and Pat Patterson.

Eric...what is Paul’s legacy in your mind?

He was a legend and achieved so much in the business it’s almost surreal to think he only really wrestled on the big stage for 5-6 years in totality.