The Kurt Angle Show - Backlash 2001 [Show Notes] (Patreon)

This week on The Kurt Angle Show, we’re talking about Backlash 2001, from April 29 - and the build to that show. We’re on the 20 year anniversary of that show and the build to it and it feels like just yesterday.

But let’s start out with news and notes from this time frame before we get to the show.

News and Notes

Injury on Raw?

A note in the Ross Report said Angle had a stinger on 4/23 Raw and had numbness and tingling in his shoulder, but worked the next day and it went away later in the week. It’s a tag-team submission match pitting you and Regal against Jericho and Benoit - which we will get to more in a little bit.

(Looking back, was this a stinger or a neck injury? Any memories of what happened?)

XFL

The future of the XFL seems in even greater jeopardy with the news that UPN is also seriously considering dropping the games next season. UPN had only signed a one-year deal with the league, and after mid-season, it was by far its lowest rated show. "There are some fairly significant issues that would prevent a season year on UPN," said Adam Ware, the network's CEO in a USA Today story. "As to whether or not we can figure out a way to address them, I don't have that answer. As you look toward next year, it becomes even harder to do because you're going back to the same category of advertisers and have to convince them to come back. The damage done by the negative press and by the problems NBC affiliates had many be too much at the end of the day to say that a second season is going to happen." XFL President Basil DeVito has said that the league couldn't continue for a second season if its only TV deal was with TNN

(Could you tell a change in Vince backstage when the XFL started to crumble? Was it a sensitive topic that you all tried to avoid talking about? Or did you care?)

Mania 17 Does Monster Business

One thing that wasn’t bad news for Vince was the numbers for Wrestlemania 17. They were coming in by the April 23 issue of the Observer. The estimates as it regards PPV were a 2.15 buy rate and about 900,000 buys. It was a preliminary estimate - as the show would wind up being reported as doing 1,040,000 buys - largest non-boxing PPV show in history. Numbers were reported that the company did ticket and merch sales at approximately $40.6 million.

(Do you or the other talent realize at the time how big wrestling has become? Do you think, at the time, it will continue to grow at the same insane rate it had for the past several years or did anyone realize things were about to cool off?)

Memphis Territory Falls On Hard Times

While business is booming, the company is still sending top talent to work regional shows for its developmental territory in Memphis - but that’s going to change soon. An Angle vs. Benoit match on 4/18 for Memphis Championship Wrestling was planned and went down before about 4,000 fans, closing the show. Benoit won by DQ. But around this time, news broke that Saturday morning Memphis studio wrestling was coming to an end.

Meltzer reported, “The Saturday morning tradition of Memphis studio wrestling, which dates back more than three decades, will continue in some form for at least two more months, but the final live show may have taken place over the weekend.

As mentioned last week, WMC-TV, which has housed the show in its television studios since the late 70s, made the decision to cancel the show and informed [AFS TOP GUY] Randy Hales of it last week. Even before WMC-TV got the show, it was a huge hit in Memphis, as it earlier aired live on a rival station in the market at their TV studio for many years dating back from when Lance Russell was a TV program director in the 60s and made the call to put studio wrestling, which was always strong in the market, on Saturday mornings. ...

The decision was said to be based on the bottom line. The show was no longer cost-effective for the station.

(Were you a little sad to see Memphis wrestling going through hard times here?)

The Rock Looks to Hollywood

Some news about the Rock teasing a departure for Hollywood during this time. He was getting set to film The Scorpion King, so keep that in mind...

Dwayne Johnson, in the new issue of Premiere magazine, publicly stated for the first time something that family friends had been aware of as well as many wrestling insiders for some time, regarding his future plans to likely leave pro wrestling for a full-time acting career. When the question was asked, Johnson said, "Absolutely. That's the first time I've ever said that. But, yeah. Making movies, you don't get the immediate reaction, but you're able to tell longer stories and it's great. Having done my first film--boy, this is what I want to do."

(Were you excited for the opportunities the Rock leaving might open up for you and others? Or was there worry about how it might hurt the business? And were you getting some future ideas about trying your hand in movies?)

The State of Wrestling

The company was catching some heat for its risque content around this time...

TSN was forced to make the following statement during Raw on 4/16: "The Canadian Broadcast Standards Council has found that TSN has breached certain provisions in the CAB Sex-Role Portrayal Code and the CAB Violence Code in its broadcast of WWF Raw is War of May 29, 2000. By using certain derogatory and demeaning terms in referring to women during the broadcast, TSN breached Clause 4 of the Sex-Role Portrayal Code. By using a hockey stick, a wrestling belt and metal chairs to assault wrestlers, TSN breached Article 10 of the Violence Code. By failing to provide viewer advisories following each of the commercial breaks during the first hour of the show advising audiences of its violent content, TSN breached Article 5 of the Violence Code.

(When you’re seeing all of this happen, does it make you happy that you’ve got this clean-cut character that doesn’t need sex or violence to get over? Do you remember any big moments when the company had to immediately shape up?)

In line with some of that news…

A Gallup poll survey released on 4/20  showed pro wrestling as the least popular among 11 sports tested and Meltzer wrote it could not have come at a worse time for the industry.

The sports surveyed, in order of popularity, were pro football, major league baseball, college football, figure skating, college basketball, pro basketball, auto racing, golf, ice hockey, tennis and pro wrestling. Of those, only 15 percent of sports fans described themselves as having any interest in pro wrestling. The second lowest rated sport surveyed, tennis, had 28 percent.

The survey...will serve to further the belief that pro wrestling isn't as popular as its ratings indicate, and appeals to a low rent audience and thus mainline advertisers with high dollar products will use it to continue to shy away from it, making it a less attractive television property in spite of often strong ratings.

In hindsight, we know that narrative took hold in history and the company had to shift to a PG product in order to sustain advertisers.

(What was the company’s biggest mistake during the Attitude Era that smeared their image? If you had to pick one (or two)?)

WCW Buyout and Plans

A TON of news around this time surrounded the recent WCW purchase by Vince McMahon. On several occasions, the WWF looked to relaunch WCW as its own brand during this time frame. But on more than one occasion, those plans were delayed. Plans were, at the time, for a Saturday night show to air from 11 PM to 1 AM on TNN. That didn’t happen.

Meltzer wrote that “The main concerns on launching this new operation are that with the roster as it is today, the new group would have a very strong crew of undercard talent but would be very weak when it comes to potential headliners, combined with the weak time slot.”

(Was there ever any talk about splitting off some of the main-event WWF roster guys and putting them on a WCW brand? Was that something you would have dreaded, perhaps, considering the state of the brand?)

Amateur Wrestling in 01

A story from around this time seemed like something that would be of interest to you but it might also be a longshot - so lets see…

Meltzer: In what has to be a first for the WWF, a WWF contracted wrestler placed last week in the U.S. wrestling championships in both freestyle and Greco-roman. Brian Keck, who is wrestling in OVW and not exactly making a lot of noise there, which is probably one of the reasons the WWF didn't even publicize this, placed third in Greco-roman at 286 pounds, winning the consolation match on 4/14 in Las Vegas over Paul Devlin 6-1 behind eventual winner Rulon Gardner. Keck lost his first round match, 4-3, and rebounded to go unbeaten the rest of the tournament. Keck also placed eighth in freestyle the next day, winning five of six matches. He would have been the only wrestler who placed in both categories (more because almost nobody entered both categories). That means Keck will qualify for the wrestle-offs in Greco-roman for a chance to represent the U.S. in the world championships, although he'd have to beat Gardner two out of three matches to make the team.

...Prior to 1992, if someone had done pro wrestling, they wouldn't have been allowed to compete in amateur in this country because pro wrestlers were considered professional athletes….

(Did you follow amateur wrestling during this time? Any thoughts on Brian Keck?)

New Theme Music for Kurt?

Okay how about this one…

Slayer is producing a new entrance song for Test. They were given a choice to do a song for Test or Angle, and they felt they just couldn't do one for Angle

(Do you remember hearing that you might get new theme music from Slayer?)

News of the Day...

Here’s a sports factoid from around this time frame....On April 8, Tiger Woods wins the 2001 Masters Tournament, completing the "Tiger Slam", with Woods becoming the first golfer to hold all four professional major titles simultaneously, having won the U.S. Open, Open Championship, and PGA Championship in 2000.

(Were you a Tiger Woods - or pro golf - fan?)

Build

On the Raw after Wrestlemania, April 2, Chris Jericho interferes in a whipping match between Stephanie and Trish. Stephanie demands he be punished and so Jericho is put against you and William Regal. Heyman says on commentary it’s magnanimous of you to take time away from your rivalry with Chris Benoit to help the commissioner. You both end up beating Jericho. Then Chris Benoit comes out to make the save.

(Paul Heyman calls you “MY Olympic Hero.” He really embraces the over-the-top character and puts you over during this time. Did you like his work on commentary?)

Benoit is punished for his heroism on the April 5 edition of Smackdown. Regal arranges a match with you and he against Benoit in a handicap match. Benoit is able to control the match at first, getting the upper hand on you both. Before long, you and Regal both lock your submission moves in on Benoit. Benoit taps out, but you refuse to let go of the hold. Jericho does a run in to save the day.

We already know that you’re building up to your Ultimate Submission match - a 30-minute submission-only ironman, basically - at Backlash.

(Do you recall who came up with the idea for you and Benoit to do a submission only match? That’s a challenge. How did you receive the idea?)

On April 9’s Raw, you come out and say your Olympic Hero is feeling a little bit naked. Unlike the city you’re in, Boston, you’re used to having a championship. You issue a challenge to any champion in the back to come out and put the gold on the line. Kane’s fire explodes. He’s the Hardcore champion and we get a hardcore title match. Heyman says it’s the one championship you’ve never won or defended. Big Show comes out to attack Kane but the Undertaker comes out to save his brother. You get knocked out of the ring and the Big Show gets pinned by Kane - in your match.

(Is the company just protecting you here while also keeping you involved in a TV program?”)

The April 12 episode of Smackdown sees you, Regal, Edge and Christian battling Benoit and Jericho. The baby faces look good but the heels win with the numbers game.  You hit the Olympic Slam, which is one of the last times the announcers call it that.

On the April 16 Raw, Regal puts you in a match with Jericho and himself against Benoit. You don’t like this and tell Edge and Christian backstage about how unhappy you are with the commissioner. He walks up behind you as you talk bad about him. Christian keeps coughing and saying *HesBehindYou.* You tell him he should get that cough checked out.

Team ECK [Say “Eck” as a word] is a thing here on TV but we know from reading your book that it was a thing in real life, too. You traveled with Edge and Christian a lot. You also brought Rhino into the fold, making it Team RECK.

(What can you tell us about traveling with these guys? Any fun road stories? Who usually drove, what kind of music did you listen to, tell us why you all got along?)

We’re still on the April 16 Raw. You and Jericho work a great physical contest. It looks like you’re working snug. You battle to the outside and get the upper hand hitting Jericho with the ring bell. Heyman says he has it on good authority that the IOC will allow ring bell strikes in the 2004 Olympics. It’s a good match while it lasts but Regal comes out to attack Jericho, interrupting the match. After the match, Regal locks in the Regal Stretch on Jericho while you clinch an Ankle Lock at the same time. Benoit comes out to stop the assault. Then, we get a really unique spot. Benoit Germans you and you do the full backflip, landing in a splash on Regal! But they don’t show it in the replay, for some reason.

(Who came up with this awesome spot?)

After the break, Benoit and Regal have their match but you’re still in the ring and Jericho comes back out. Benoit makes Regal tap.

Benoit is coming out of this program looking very strong.

(Did the company want to bring him to main event level in 2001?)

Smackdown on April 19 sees you host a submission clinic, demonstrating your wrestling prowess against some enhancement guys. Benoit sneaks up behind you and ends up putting you in the Crossface, which you tap out to - but it’s not a match so it didn’t count.

The go-home Raw for Backlash is on April 23. Regal makes a tag team submission match between all four you. The tag match on Raw seems cut short. This is the match where it was reported you got a stinger. Benoit makes Regal tap out to the Crossface.

The trend here is that the Crippler Crossface is a dangerous move. It’s the only thing, at this point, that has ever made you tap.

(How important is it for a professional wrestler to get his or her finishing maneuver ‘over’?)

Optional Fact: [Benoit went on to use this move to win the world title at Wrestlemania XX - and the crowd exploded, making it a perfect moment. That was because Chris Benoit and his arsenal were familiar and over with the crowd.]

(I don’t want to imply that the crossface wasn’t already over because it was - but do you think this helped to really get it over on another level to the modern WWF audience?)

The Event/The Match

We’ve arrived at the event, April 29, 2001 at the All-State Arena in Chicago. Show drew a sellout 15,592 fans, which was 14,751 paying $831,510 with another $143,908 in merchandise sales. It was billed as the 18th sellout in a row in Chicago on the broadcast.

The show does a buyrate of 375,000. That’s a huge fall-off from the year before which did 675,000 buys and a huge drop from the show before, Mania 17, which did over 1 million. So business is definitely beginning its decline from the peaks we saw during the Attitude Era.

(Is anyone backstage concerned, at all, when numbers begin to come in that are lower than the period before, vs. higher, which had been the case for several years now?)

Poll results looked like this in the Observer:

WWF BACKLASH:

• Thumbs up 78 (33.6%),
• Thumbs down 55 (23.7%),
• In the middle 99 (42.7%).

BEST MATCH POLL:

Chris Benoit vs. Kurt Angle 104,

• Raven vs. Rhyno 69,
• Steve Austin & HHH vs. Undertaker & Kane 27.

WORST MATCH POLL:

• Big Show vs. Shane McMahon 64,
• William Regal vs. Chris Jericho 54,
• X-Pac & Justin Credible & Albert vs. Dudleys 24,

You’re fourth on the card that night in Chicago...

The match begins with a scramble of sorts for submission moves. It looks like it’s a shoot amateur-like contest but it’s also with a goal of grabbing a submission. There’s some worked moments in it but...

(How much of this was a work and how much was a shoot?)

Meltzer wrote: Of course the matwork was very good. Even in Japan in worked shoots where a lot of matwork is done and they don't do pinfalls or near falls..., they always balanced it out by allowing knockouts, which stiff blows were used to counter the matwork and set up working for the submission in building. Even the best submission guys in Japan need the hard striking to set it up to make it work and only the best go 30:00 to an educated crowd.

(Was there any concern about being able to excite the crowd with only submission holds here? Any worry the crowd might reject the match and chant boring?)

After Benoit gets the cross face on you on the outside, you tap out - but it doesn’t count. Benoit argues with the referee while you get angry and grab a steel chair. I always thought that would have been great to see at the Olympics. More steel chairs.

You get the first tap out with a knee bar. Benoit taps and the crowd pops, even though you’ve got good heel heat.

Meltzer wrote: Heyman did a good job in explaining that taps would be quicker in this match. He didn't quite say because the match continues and you have to go 30, it's suicide to avoid tapping because you'll be a dead duck the rest of the match with an injured joint, but explained the psychology of it.

(Were you both okay with giving multiple submissions to the other due to this logic - or was that ever discussed between you two?)

You’re one up at 22:48 when the battle for the second fall begins. It doesn’t take long.

At 21:55, Benoit wins the second fall, with what is known in MMA as an arm bar. In pro wrestling, it’s not an armbar. It’s a cross armbreaker. Today everyone would recognize that but back in 2001, that was probably one of the first times on WWE TV someone tapped out to that move. Meltzer didn’t think the crowd understood it.

(How did you both decide on submissions to use here? Did you need a certain number of alternatives?)

At 20:00, Benoit shoves the referee down. It seems like a DQ moment but while the ref is down, you blast him with a chair. Then, the Ankle Lock gives you fall three at 19:40.

(Nowadays, chair shots to the head are banned. But when they weren’t, what was the key to giving one?)

At 18:55, almost immediately after the 30 second recovery period, you get another fall with the Crippler Crossface. You’re up 3-to-1. “Noticeable cheers for Angle live at this point since he beat Benoit with his own move.” Meltzer wrote.

On the road to the next fall, you take a back body drop over the top rope. You did a full 360 over your head, too. It really looks impressive and gets a replay.

(Is it just me or did you never take the bump over-the-top rope backwards? Why?)

Benoit tried a Sharpshooter, causing Ross to make reference to the Hart family, but you made the ropes. This was still during the time that Bret Hart was mortal enemies with the company, so it was a bigger deal back then than it seems now.

At 11:55 Benoit gets the tap with a half-Boston crab! It looks like a version of Jericho’s Liontamer. Benoit is still behind 2-to-3. But your strategy is to retreat. You play the cowardly heel.

Meltzer would write, “Ahead 3-2, Angle started stalling. With no clock and scoreboard, the live fans didn't seem to get the story they were telling about logical stalling and riding the clock. Ross, with his sports background, did a very good job of getting that across to the TV viewers which is why it played so much better on TV.”

(Looking back, would a scoreboard have helped the crowd understand this a little more? Seems odd to not have one)

At 6:10, Benoit tries to grab an ankle lock but it’s pretty messy. You escape to the ropes.

(You’re selling that you’re exhausted which is part of the story. But, are you? How is your conditioning holding up for this match? How did you prepare?)

At just about 2:05, Benoit gets the tap out with the ugly ankle lock. It’s now tied 3-3. You get the Ankle lock on him as the match countdown ends. Benoit taps after the bell. Then the referee declared overtime and that the match must continue. You’re crying. But you have a legitimate gripe.

You get a twister on Benoit on the ground, which is a legitimate move but the fans here have never seen it. It’s like a ground abdominal stretch. After a scramble, Benoit gets you into the Crossface and wins.

(Was that move or any other move one that you had to be careful of because of your neck?)

4.  Chris Benoit beat Kurt Angle 4-3 in the Ultimate Submission match that went 31:31. Meltzer graded it as ***¼ and had this to say:

While Angle vs. Benoit got the majority of votes for best match, there was something missing. The match played much better on television than it did live, and that was because of the commentary. Bottom line is that as great mat wrestlers as both men proved to be, this was too long and it was too much of a handicap to eliminate near falls. This was a match that would have played much better during the 70s in the United States, but even then they had the two counts to play with, or in Japan, where the submission moves are more over. The crossface and ankle lock spots got the crowd to react, but moves like armbars and kneelocks haven't been pro wrestling submission moves on WWF TV and the crowd wasn't educated to them. Without the ability to use gimmicks, do near falls and break tables, 30 minutes was too long for the live crowd. The most falls concept also worked against the match, because fans still see that top guys don't tap out, and these guys both did three and four times in one night. I don't think anyone would argue that neither man really got over, regardless of technical skill and who won or lost.

(How would you rate this match? Were you satisfied with it afterward and how did Benoit feel about it? Were you good putting him over?)