The Kurt Angle Show - Olympics to WWE [Show Notes] (Patreon)

Today’s show is all about Kurt’s journey between winning the Olympic gold medal and getting into the WWE. Kurt won Olympic gold in 1996 but didn’t debut in the WWE until 1999. So what happened in between there? We’re going to talk all about that today.

We’re not going to cover Kurt’s Olympic run very much here today because we hope to do a full episode on it later this year for the 20th anniversary. But to set the stage for the show, I think there’s an important question to ask.

(What was your mindset like after winning the Olympics? Were you on top of the world? Super confident?) [Important question will make sense in a few minutes]

You wrote in your book that you were supposed to stay in Atlanta for the remainder of the Olympic games. But, everything changed when you won the gold. The Rooney Family, who own the Pittsburgh Steelers, flew you back to Pittsburgh that day because they wanted to honor you at halftime of their preseason game at Three Rivers Stadium that night!

But before you went to the game...you went to play music with Jimmy Buffett’s band. You wrote that you knew how to play the drums and your limo took you to the Coca-Cola Amphitheater to play drums for three songs before you went to Three Rivers Stadium for the Steelers vs. The Rams. The fans gave you a standing ovation.

(Where did your relationship with the Rooney family get started? How did you end up going to Jimmy Buffett’s before you went to the stadium? And, what was the moment like in front of the 60,000 fans?)

In 1993, you tried out for the Pittsburgh Steelers as a fullback even before the Olympics. Instead of going into a practice squad for the Steelers, Kurt decided to go back into his wrestling training to prepare for the Olympics.

(Was there any consideration of trying again for an NFL career, here?)

Kurt didn’t always want to become a professional wrestler. In your book, you said your first reaction was to laugh at the idea because “all my life, I’d been told never to watch pro wrestling. It was garbage, everyone told me, and that was the unanimous feeling of anyone involved in amateur wrestling.”

“So deep down, I knew I’d never accept their offer, but I have to admit, the money got my attention. I hated to waste their time but I was curious, so I accepted their invitation for a tour of their facilities in Stamford, Connecticut.”

(Where did your interest in pro-wrestling come from around this point? Was it business motivated? Was anyone pushing you to do it? And, are you concerned at all about what your amateur peers will say or think - or are you the king of that hill, by this point?)

You accepted the invite to talk to the McMahons, and we will talk about that next...but first…

You also had an appearance during that trip to New York on Live with Regis and Kathie Lee. You said it was a lot of fun. Regis put on a wrestling singlet and got on the mat with you, showing off his skinny, white legs and looking hilarious in his singlet. When he came out, you said:

“I just want to know one thing, Regis: Where’s your microphone?”

He laughed and said “You don’t want to know, Angle!”

(What can you say about the experience of being on Live with Regis and Kathie Lee? How were they to work with, especially Regis?)

With the show over, you got back into the stretch limo to head to the WWF HQ. In your book, you wrote that you were impressed with the facility and impressed with the presentation by the McMahons.

(What was your very first impression of Vince McMahon? Did you meet him in the boardroom or in his office?)

On our really great Something to Wrestle Kurt Angle episode, Bruce said that Kurt first appeared on WWE’s radar in 1996 after the Olympics when he won the gold medal with a broken freakin’ neck. The Olympic matches were between July 30 and July 31. Basically, one month later, Kurt Angle is in the office of Vince McMahon!

On September 5, 1996, Kurt was reported to be the first meeting with Vince McMahon. At the time, Meltzer said, “They must feel that there's a decent shot of getting him because that fact was announced on television, but there is no deal done at this point. Interest has also been expressed in Matt Ghaffari, who took the silver in Greco-roman in the super heavyweight division losing to Alexandre Karelin.”

(What kind of stuff was in the McMahon presentation? Were they telling you ideas for you and how they would book you?)

Despite the interest and the positivity in reporting, you wrote in your book that there was a better chance at the time of you joining the circus. I’m wondering if Vince picked up on that because after the big meeting, there was another meeting with Bruce.

Bruce tells the story that after, you and your agent went to meet with Bruce directly. He described the meeting with one very big detail: Bruce said that you, Kurt, said you would never be able to lose a match. Bruce said you thought you should come in and be the world champion. Bruce said he didn’t think you were serious about joining at the time and thanked you for coming, then ended the meeting.

(Is that how you remember the meeting with Bruce? Were you pretty firm that you didn’t want to lose, at this period?)

“That feeling was ingrained so deeply in me at the time, right after the Olympics, that I couldn’t imagine joining the World Wrestling Federation. I had lived and breathed nothing but amateur wrestling for years. After high school I didn’t even watch other sports. I had such tunnel vision that nothing else mattered. I watched ESPN Sportscenter at night but that was about it. I didn’t even watch the NFL, and I had always been a huge football fan.”

“But that’s the culture of amateur wrestling; it breeds an us-against-the-world mentality. And at the time I was a symbol for the entire sport because I had won the gold medal and received all of that national publicity. Joining the World Wrestling Federation at that time was unthinkable to me. When I took the McMahons’ contract back to Pittsburg and showed it to my agent, Ralph Cindrich, who was a well-known sports agent who represents a number of NFL players, he said “You don’t want to do this.” And he tore it up right in front of me.

(We asked earlier about your mindset after winning the Olympics. How much of that was reflected in your first approach here with the WWE? Being a wrestling veteran now and looking back, what was young-Kurt Angle’s issue here that needed to be fixed?)

Let’s for a second about your agent. You wrote in your book that Ralph Cindrich was your agent.

(What was your relationship with Ralph Cindrich like? How did you get linked up with him and how did that relationship end?)

Even though things weren’t agreed upon with the WWF yet, there was an article in Nikkan Sports in Japan saying Kurt Angle had signed with WWF. As we know, that was fake news. Meltzer reported that it was not accurate in late September. He was told an offer was made to Angle but that thus far Angle hasn't accepted the offer.

(What kind of offer did the company make to you in 1996? Did the offer get better or worse by the time the next round of negotiations happened?)

By September 30 in the Observer, it was reported that Angle is interested in continuing until the 2000 Olympics and won't be taking the offers thrown his way by both WWF and WCW. The reports continued on October 14, when Meltzer said Kurt Angle has pretty much decided against doing pro wrestling.

(Were you looking at another Olympic run in 2000? Just in terms of the economics, would it have been worth it? How much more could you have made with two medals vs. one gold medal?)

But before long, you wound up making a famous appearance at an ECW show. As the story has been told, you had a long-running friendship with Shane Douglas, who was one of the main guys in ECW at the time. So, with his help and connections, they bring you in.

(How did you know Shane Douglas? How did he convince you to come into ECW after the situation with the WWE didn’t pan out?)

They did an interview with Kurt who did commentary on the match with Taz beating Little Guido. Taz said that Angle was the best amateur wrestler in the world but that he was going to show him the difference between the best amateur wrestler and the best professional wrestler.

But that’s not what the show is most famous for.

Sandman kept the ECW title pinning Scorpio after Scorpio missed a move off the top rope. After the match, Raven hit the ring along with Stevie Richards, Blue Meanie, Super Nova and Lori Fullington and destroyed Sandman including caning him in the eye busting his eye open, and finally Raven pulled out a cross from under the ring and tied Sandman to the cross and put barbed wire around his head and crucified him. Apparently this angle was even too extreme for ECW, because after intermission, Raven came in the ring out of character saying he was Scott Levy apologizing to anyone he may have offended for what happened.

(I can’t think of any point in wrestling when this would be a do-able angle but we’re talking about 1996, here. Before the attitude era. What were you thinking when you saw this? Pure horror?)

From what we're told, Angle, backstage, was really upset about the angle thinking it might ruin his image and feeling double-crossed about being there and there were some fans who freaked out about it. It's doubtful he'll be back.

Most reports are that the real reason for the apology by Raven after the crucifixion angle was because Angle was so upset about it because he does so much work in the community and has a certain image and felt that it would reflect negatively on him being a part of a group that did something like this.

The rumor and innuendo was that you told Heyman you were leaving, you never wanted to be seen on TV with the crucifixion and if you were, you’d get an attorney involved.

(What did you say to Paul Heyman about the angle when it went down - do you remember? Did you say anything or want to say anything to Raven or the others involved?)

At this point, wrestling probably looks like the most unlikely career for Kurt Angle possible. So, the independent grind continued.

Let’s talk about pizza!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oCDS2cmcMNA

It’s crazy to think of Kurt Angle being the spokesman for everyone’s favorite Italian indulgence...but that’s where we are. It was around this time you did commercial work for a pizza chain called Pizza Outlet. The commercial, which aired mostly in 1997, shows you getting a pizza delivered - and telling the driver to keep the change (very generous). Then, a tomato and green pepper have a wrestling match on top of the pizza while an onion referees the match.

The pepper wins. Then, it gets on Kurt’s shoulder...cries..and Kurt, acting like he’s about to cry, stays “Aww man. That was beautiful.” It’s a little tribute to Kurt crying when he won Olympic gold.

(How did this partnership get cooked up? Knowing your dedication to healthy food choices...how did you feel about endorsing pizza? Has that changed?)

Pizza Outlet was founded in Pennsylvania in 1988 and regarded as an affordable option for college students, especially at University of PIttsburgh, looking for a cheap meal. Just for trivia purposes, they began changing their name as a company to Vocelli pizza in 2002.

For many fans, they only saw this commercial in 2001 when the Rock used it as a way to embarrass Kurt the character. Instead of asking if you liked pie, he asked if you liked pizza (haha), then rolled the tape on the titantron.

(You seem to have a great, self-deprecating sense of humor. Were you totally cool with this being used on WWE TV?)

There was also a lot of motivational speaking happening during this time, especially at high schools. You wrote that you’d do as many as five high schools in one day. Within the first eight months, you spoke at 260 schools. That seems like an incredible feat and wouldn’t surprise me if it was also some kind of record.

(What was it that you liked about speaking to high school kids? What’s that experience like now that you’ve become known as an entertainer - still as fun? Do the kids pay attention more now?)

There was also an unfortunate incident with the Boy Scouts in Pittsburgh. Not your fault - but it’s sort of funny, looking back. You had agreed to speak to that chapter but before you could, a conflict came up and you weren’t going to be able to make it. So, you recorded a video of you speaking for about 20 minutes, sent some autographed photos along with the tape, and everyone would be happy. They loved the message. They rewound the tape to the beginning to play at the Boy Scouts event. The only problem is, the beginning was  minutes BEFORE Kurt began to record.

You had just used an old tape in one of your friends’ video cameras, not thinking twice about it. But on the tape was apparently some sexually graphic graffiti in downtown Pittsburgh. They play the tape to the Boy Scouts, and for fifteen seconds, that’s what the kids got to see. Someone finally reacted and turned the tape off but that ended up with some angry letters and calls from parents.

(Talk about a headache. When did you find out this happened? What did you say to the parents, if anything, who reached out?)

You wrote in your book that the next six months after winning an Olympic gold medal was an industry by itself. You did loads of TV appearances, some that we’ve already mentioned, and other appearances like Conan and Leno. You had paid engagements, sponsors, commercial deals, motivational speaking appearances and basically, you were hustling for your money. Sometimes, you had as many as eight or nine appearances or meetings in a day, starting at 7 AM and going until 10 PM.

(Does this eventually take its toll on you? And, is this where maybe you began to reconsider WWE?)

After about six months, you started thinking seriously about an acting career. You wrote that you had been taking acting lessons and had made a few trips to Los Angeles. You even hosted MTV’s Beach House with Jenny McCarthy, did an appearance at Niketown with Gabrielle Reece and Shaquille O’Neal, played basketball at Garry Shandling’s house with Ben Stiller, and more.

You gave credit for the Hollywood opportunities to Jimmy Miller, brother of comedian Dennis Miller. Jimmy was a Hollywood agent. In addition to the other opportunities we talked about, he arranged meetings between you and companies like Paramount and Fox.

It got to the point that you were considering even moving to LA.

(Any memories of Jenny McCarthy, making Ben Stiller look bad, or any other stories from your time in LA here?)

(A lot of people go to Hollywood to become starving artists. Were you afraid that might be your fate if you went to LA permanently?)

Instead, you ended up going to work as a sportscaster.

As 96 was coming to a close and 97 began, you became a sportscaster for Pittsburgh Fox 53’s 10 Oclock News. Your tagline was “That’s the angle on sports.” As one of the stories you’ve told goes, you were walking to the producer and the printed copies of your script goes flying all over the news set. The producer tells you don’t worry about the scripts - just read the teleprompter. And it goes black. Then, as you’re going to pitch to football, the direct cuts...to golf. It’s a rough experience and for those who have been in local television news, that’s nothing new. But it must have felt especially bad for someone who was new to the TV news world.

(Tell us about this experience. From a TV news professional’s perspective (stan), it sounds like the producer wasn’t doing his or her job correctly! But you seem like the kind of guy who doesn’t pass blame.)

In typical Kurt Angle fashion, you started coming to the station late at night to practice and improve. You worked to get better at it. But, you wrote that you took a pounding in the media, getting buried in reviews by the same people who loved you as an olympic athlete.

Just when you started to get comfortable, the station management pulled you out of the studio and made you a reporter in the field. You went to games, talked to athletes, and covered stories on-location. Meaning there is no teleprompter (probably). But you wrote that you felt like pro athletes, who once upon a time would have treated you with the highest respect, instead treated you like shit in the locker room. You ended up giving the career up.

(That’s got to be a humbling and depressing experience, right? How did it affect you?)

At this time, you said you were doing work for a friend and former pro bodybuilder, Dave Hawk, in Pittsburg. He had come to you to promote a product called Ostrim - a beef jerky-like snack that is made from fat-free ostrich meat, not beef! You endorsed Ostrim and that was your only paycheck for sometime.

Dave was trying to sell WWE on endorsing Ostrim and although they didn’t bite, Dave ended up planting the idea with you to maybe take another look at the WWE.

(Tell us about your relationship with Dave Hawk. When did you first meet him? How did the idea come up for him to represent you? What made him different from other managers?)

You wrote that you began watching Raw is War regularly in the Fall of 1998. After a month, you were addicted - which, considering the time period, is no surprise! It was the best ever. You said the more you watched, the more you felt like you could make that transition and be good at it. So, you called the World Wrestling Federation.

But the phone call didn’t go exactly as you had hoped it would.

(What was the reception like when you reached back out to the company in 98?)

A second meeting happens with the WWE. There’s a lot less info on this, even in the rumor mill, than came from the first meeting. But, Bruce said he thought Kurt reached out to the WWF at this point. He said you were much more interested after “not setting the world on fire with sportscasting and pizza sales.” And apparently, you call them and ask if the deal they had offered two years ago was still good. It wasn’t. They said you would have to try out and prove you deserved a shot.

(Are they offering you a lot less money or a much less enticing deal here? Why did you take this one?)

Bruce said your attitude toward wrestling had changed completely by the time the second meeting happened. Based on your book, that’s pretty apparent. But, you ended up having to almost pester them for the chance just to try out, here.

(Going back to our first question of the show about your attitude after winning the Olympics...how had Kurt Angle changed since 96 here in 1998?)

Finally, the company tells you to come up and try out at a training camp run by Tom Prichard and Dory Funk Jr. But you wrote in your book that you weren’t completely comfortable with your decision, so Dave Hawk came with you to Stamford and roomed with you. And everyone thought you two were gay.

All humor aside, on day two of the camp, you wrote that you got signed to a contract by Jim Ross. It was the biggest deal anyone in developmental status had ever signed, by all reports. You wrote that it was a five year contract, but Bruce said it had EIGHT years on it. Maybe there is a disparity there because part of it was for training or there was an option for renewal or something.

According to Bruce, WWE was the side that wanted to get the long contract. He said the company saw a future in you and wanted a unique deal that would let you develop, be paid well, and have a chance to grow.

(How different was the second round of negotiations from the first?)

Bruce said you were a big investment. He didn’t talk money specifics. However, for years, the online rumors were that Brock Lesnar got $250,000 a year when he went to developmental. Bruce said that wasn’t true. But we have to wonder…

(What kind of money deal did you get for training and working developmental territory? Five figures, six figures?)

At some point during this camp, Kurt gave a promo like a white meat baby face. Basically, what would have been a good guy in the 80s and early 90s. Bruce apparently stood up and said that was a great HEEL promo. Dory Funk Jr got upset with Bruce over this. But looking back, that was the framework for the initial heel, overachiever “It’s True” character...right?

(Was it hard to adjust to the idea that what you thought was a good guy was actually a bad guy in 98?)

You begin your training with Tom Prichard. And within 15-20 minutes, they said you were taking flat back bumps better than a lot of pros.

(What was it like transitioning from staying off your back to attacking the mat with your back?)

As Bruce tells the story...Tom would train with Kurt in the morning. Then they would go workout and do cardio. Then, Kurt wanted to go back into the ring. Tom would be worn out and beat up everyday after spending “roughly eight hours” training Kurt.

(What was it like training with Dr. Tom? How important was he to what you would become in wrestling?)

The very first match we can find that you worked in was on August 20 in Salem, MA for the World Wrestling Alliance in front of 350 fans. Loads of future stars on that card, including the Hardys, Head Bangers, Scott Taylor, Edge and Christian, and...Kurt Angle. And in your first match...you lost. Tom Prichard beat Kurt that night in a match.

(Is this a test from the company to see if you’ll lose or how you will handle losing?)

In the August 31 Observer, Meltzer wrote that Angle  had a strong training camp and actually debuted with his first few matches over the weekend. He worked some matches with Dory Funk in his corner as a manager and was put over on all (but one!) the house shows and got a big babyface reception. On 8/21 he beat Shawn Stasiak and on 8/22 in Quincy, MA he beat Christian Cage (described as a Chris Jericho lookalike) and then won a Battle Royal. Funk managed Angle and Jim Cornette managed Cage and after the match Angle & Funk cleaned house together.

(In your book, you wrote that your first tryout match was with Christian and that he helped you through the match, calling spots, and taking good care of you as a more tenured performer)

(What are your memories of early matches here with Christian? How about Sean Craziak Stasiak? How did you like working with Dory Funk?)

From there, the path to the WWE was pretty clear. You worked independent shows for the rest of 98 and in early 99, including working for Pennsylvania Championship Wrestling and East Coast Wrestling Association in February, 99.

By March, 99, you began wrestling for Randy Hales’ Power Pro Wrestling in Memphis - the WWF’s developmental league at the time.

On March 20, 1999, you made your Power Pro Wrestling TV debut against a masked opponent named Yellowjacket. He arm dragged you, celebrated like a heel, and you beat him with a quick belly to belly suplex. Yellowjacket, by the way, was Jerry Lawler’s son, Kevin Lawler.

(Here is Kurt’s debut. At 55 seconds in, he gives his first interview. He’s wearing a black leather vest, like Stone Cold https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iFnL9yUcsEI / Great audio to play on the show and get Kurt’s reaction.)

(Did you want to go for the Stone Cold look at first, with the vest? Why didn’t you wrestle in your singlet like we’ve come to know and expect?)

Angle spent that summer working the Memphis circuit. He captured the region’s heavyweight championship on July 24, 1999. Angle dropped the PPW Heavyweight Title early in August and began touring with the WWF more regularly, usually wrestling dark matches.

The Pittsburgh Post Gazette wrote at the time that you were always on the road, going to [Tennessee] on weekends to perform in Power Pro Wrestling, the minor leagues, and then traveling with the WWF to do untelevised warm-up matches.

In fact, we reached out to one of the bookers from PPW, who told us that the WWE actually instructed them not to book anyone to beat Kurt!

(What are your memories of working in Power Pro?) (Memories of working with Superbad Steve Bradley?)

Like the Pittsburgh paper said, there were a lot of WWE dark matches at this time. If you attended a live show in 1999, there’s a good chance you saw Kurt wrestle a dark match.

One of those was on May 10, 1999 in Orlando. And it was one of the few times Kurt Angle lost a match, too. His opponent...was Owen Hart. Owen pinned Kurt after a spin kick.

In your book, you wrote that you were backstage 13 days later in Kansas City at Over the Edge 1999. You said you talked to Owen that day, who was nervous about the stunt.

(Are you happy you had a chance to wrestle Owen in 1999 before the tragedy that took his life?)

On July 25 at Fully Loaded 1999, Kurt Angle made his pay-per-view debut. Sort of. He was a spectator watching Ken Shamrock vs. Steve Blackman in an Iron Circle match. Funny because at the time, all the viewers thought they were watching the two toughest guys in the history of the company - not realizing that the most legitimate of all tough guys was an on-looker.

Sort of a fun Easter Egg.

By the 1999 Survivor Series, it was time for Kurt Angle’s WWE in-ring debut. It was against Shawn Stasiak.

But that’s a show for another day!