Grilling JR - Clash of Champions 13 [Show Notes] (Patreon)

Clash of the Champions XIII 

Clash of the Champions XIII was on November 20, 1990 at the Jacksonville Memorial Coliseum in Jacksonville, Florida. There were 5,000 fans in attendance for the show with a live gate reported at $36,000 that aired live on TBS, drawing a 4.2 rating. That might sound good nowadays but it was one of the two worst numbers the Clash had done up until then.

• March 27, 1988 Clash of the Champions 01 5.80
• June 8, 1988  Clash of the Champions 02 4.80
• September 7, 1988 Clash of the Champions 03 5.40
• December 7, 1988 Clash of the Champions 04 4.50
• February 15, 1989 Clash of the Champions 05 4.60
• April 2, 1989  Clash of the Champions 06 4.30
• June 14, 1989  Clash of the Champions 07 3.80
• September 12, 1989 Clash of the Champions 08 4.70
• November 15, 1989 Clash of the Champions 09 4.90
• February 6, 1990 Clash of the Champions 10 4.50
• June 13, 1990  Clash of the Champions 11 4.10
• September 5, 1990 Clash of the Champions 12 5.00
• November 20, 1990 Clash of the Champions 13 4.20

Was there any panic or concern when the rating came in for this show and it was so bad?

This event was a set-up show for Starrcade ‘90: Collision Course.

NEWS

It's been a week of changes, rumors and big shows. Much of the speculation was for Dusty Rhodes to return to the NWA as booker.

Meltzer wrote It could simply be the rumor feeding on itself, and Terry Funk's name as booker continues to be mentioned as well but nearly everyone talks about Dusty Rhodes coming in as booker as if it is inevitable, and soon. Rhodes is still booked through the and of the year on WWF house shows and is scheduled mainly against Sgt. Slaughter (to put Serge over of course) toward the end of his run. It's unlikely that Rhodes will walk out any sooner because of potential contract problems. Rhodes has a contract with the WWF but they were apparently willing to release him from it provided he worked through the end of the year at the houses and at the Royal Rumble PPV on January 19th. Most of the wrestlers seem to be excited over the change. The thought is that the promotion has hit rock bottom with Ole Anderson at the helm.

Were you guys clamoring for Dusty to come back?

The Steiners contract expires early next year, but are being offered a reported (and keep in mind that any numbers like these have to be assumed are somewhat works) $950,000 apiece for three years ($300,000 for two years and $350,000 for 1993)--a figure they would almost certainly not turn down.

The Steiners seemed to be one of the company’s most valued assets at this point. Is that true?

NWA: This group has a right to use the NWA name once again. Still talk they'll phase out the name at the end of this year.

Wasn’t the NWA just getting free brand exposure on cable TV? Did it hurt them to come after Turner for using their name? It seemed like to fans when WCW stopped using the NWA letters, the NWA ended.

The 28 percent cutback across the board because of the entire Turner organization planning for the current recession is just for travel and business expenses but not for salaries so there is apparently no pressure on the group to cut down salaries for the wrestlers and office personnel.

Is that how it ended up working out?

Nasty Boys gave notice the day of the Clash, which is why they ran away from the Steiners twice. I believe they finish on 12/9 but not exactly sure of the date. They'll be headed to the WWF to ultimately work a program with Legion of Doom. Jim Herd offered them each three-year guaranteed contracts for $156,000 per year and they turned it down.

Do you recall the reaction backstage when the Nastys gave notice?

Don Glass is no longer booking the arena dates and was replaced by someone from within the TBS organization. Glass will stay with the company as an event coordinator. . . .

Any memories of Don Glass? Why did he stop here?

Despite rumors that he might somehow survive and keep his job, The Juicer Art Barr was expected to apparently finish up on January 3rd, but that was reported with the asterisk that it could change depending upon what the new booker decides. Barr was convicted of first degree sexual assault (fined a mere $1000 and sentenced to 180 hours of community service for raping a woman which he confessed to). Stories had come out about it and some fans even chanted at him the word “rapist.”

Jim Herd was reported by the Observer to be waiting to hear from the prosecuting attorney on why the rape charge was dropped, perhaps looking for any possibile escape from the inevitable future endeavoring.

What can you tell us about The Juicer, press coverage, and his conviction?

Mike Rotunda's valet (Ms. Alexandra York) will only work television and Atlanta shows, not go on the road.' Rotunda was given notice that his contract won't be renewed when it expires. Talk is that if the Michael Wall Street thing gets over, they'll re-sign Rotunda, but if not, they'll let him stay but not on any guarantee. . .

We know Rotunda ended up going to the WWF as IRS, which a lot of people probably didn’t realize came AFTER Michael Wallstreet. Did WCW basically give him an audition for the competition by rebranding his character and telling him they weren’t going to resign him unless he got over?

Assistant booker Ron West suffered a mild heart attack on Wednesday, the day after the Clash. West was still hospitalized as of Monday, but the good news, if there can be any good news from a heart attack, is that there was no scarring of the heart tissue so it wasn't a major attack.

Ron West passed away in 2013. Any fond memories of him?

A report in the Observer around this time indicated lots of work being done behind the scenes to get blood back into the picture next year.

Was that true? Was there a big push to allow the wrestlers to cut/bleed on TV in the works?

World Championship Wrestling reached a deal with New Japan Pro Wrestling earlier in November to co-promote a show at the Tokyo Dome on March 21, 1991. There was talk about talent exchanges as well, details of which would be further fleshed out.

With this, and with the Pat O’Conner Memorial International tag team tournament, there seems to be a big international push from the company. Was that a directive from Turner or just a philosophy from Herd?

Jesse The Body Ventura was elected mayor of Brooklyn Park, Minnesota during elections in early November, receiving 63-percent of the vote and beating the 18-year incumbent to become mayor of a suburb of about 60,000 near Minneapolis.

But it wasn’t a smooth road to victory. In the days before the election, a representative wrote a letter to the local newspaper publicizing excerpts from an interview Jesse did with Penthouse Magazine in March 1989, which he did in character.

The AP quoted Ventura as saying politics were the dirtiest thing he had ever been involved in, including wrestling.

What was the feeling backstage and in the business when Jesse won this contest?

Was that a pretty dirty move by the lady who sent the interview to the newspaper?

Gordon Solie was given the game ball from last Sunday's Kansas City Chiefs game as Steve DeBerg, who is friends with Solie, got the ball

Was Gordon Solie also a big fan of the Chiefs? Ever go to any games together?

Speaking of football, in November, Flair got some press for the company by being on the sidelines during the Florida Gators win over Georgia. The game was covered by TBS and they didn’t acknowledge him but it was the lead story in several newspapers.

Why did the non-wrestling side of Turner broadcasting seem to always ignore wrestling?

Another major story revolves around Joe Pedicino's purchase of Jerry Jarrett's syndicated television network. An agreement was reached in November where Pedicino, who has formed a corporation called Kongi Sports and apparently has millions in backing, would work with Jarrett and try to structure a major wrestling organization called the Global Wrestling Federation. The GWF would be comprised of five different promotions, four small regional offices in Dallas, Memphis, Atlanta and in Florida which would run territories and a large national touring promotion. Jarrett retained ownership of the Memphis end of the promotion and was reported to also be going back into Dallas and own that end. Pedicino will maintain full control of the Georgia regional office, which he currently runs as Georgia All-Star Wrestling. The two will each own 50 percent of a proposed new regional outlet they will open in Florida.

What Pedicino did buy is Jarrett's syndicated network, with the exception of the stations in the Tennessee-Kentucky area and in Texas, which Jarrett would use to promote his regional events. That network consists of approximately 120 stations and ESPN cable. The beginnings of this will be slowly Introduced in a six-week long angle that was taped over the weekend on the program that currently airs as USWA Wrestling Challenge. They introduce a businessman as the head of the Global Wrestling Federation, the largest wrestling company in the world but one that has never promoted in the United States because it didn't want to deal with this country because our talent was divided into three different major federations. But a decision has been made that the GWF will work with a U.S. promotion and make a decision. As the six week long saga goes, there are stories on the USWA program that they are talking with USWA officials, and later talking with organization: "in Atlanta" and "in New York." During the fifth week, at the end of the program, the announcement is made GWF has "chosen to work with the USWA" and the sixth week they explain cover reasons for the fans as to why, which were the USWA is the only group that allows wrestlers from other federations to come in, USWA is the only group that allows its champions to wrestle outside its own auspices and USWA is the only promotion with regional offices that are already set up to develop new talent.

Was there any concern or thoughts about if the GWF might be a serious competitor or, at a minimum, steal talent not under contract while being promoted on TV away (Nastys)?

Lex Luger's episode on Super Boy airs the weekend of 12/15. It’s noteworthy because Lex wears the full Superman (Or Super Boy) costume next to the main actor and completely dwarfs him.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KUfaT1q3ygw

What do you think of Lex Luger in the Superman outfit?

He wasn’t the only one working in Hollywood. Around that time, the Observer reported Master Blaster Steele was currently on leave as he's got a part in the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles II movie. Master Blaster Steele would go on to have roles in The Longest Yard, Grandma’s Boy, John Wick, and Magic Mike. (It’s Kevin Nash).

He ended up playing Super Shredder in the Ninja Turtles movie which was fkin awesome. Was Herd okay with Nash pursuing movie roles like this?

Tickets for Starrcade in St. Louis went on sale last Tuesday and they did $25,000 in sales (1,300 seats) the first day, which is phenomenal, particularly since no card had even been announced. Gut feeling from here is this will be like the Philadelphia PPV last year in that they'll have a huge early advance because the hardcores know that PPV is the real deal, but when the actual card is announced and it's not the intriguing, sales will slow quite a bit.

St. Louis has always been a strong wrestling town, though...has it not?

Sam Muchnick, who was the president of the NWA throughout most of the 50s, 60s through the early 70s and promoted St. Louis through 1982 when it was considered by many as the top wrestling city in North America, will be involved somehow in Starrcade. Supposedly Muchnick was offered $5,000 by Jim Herd to be involved with the show. This kills a proposed WWF tie-in card involving Muchnick that had been on the drawing board.

Muchnick is considered by Jim Herd to be the greatest wrestling promoter of all time. Where did you rank him?

WCW on 11/10 drew a strong 2.9 rating with the Sting vs. Bobby Eaton match, Main Event did 2.5 (okay against NFL competition) and Power Hour on Saturday morning did a strong 2.1 with an eight share. Everyone was thrilled to death because the AM Power Hour not only draws virtually no viewers from the West Coast (since it starts at 6 a.m. but in the Northeast goes head-to-head on cable with the WPIX show and still drew ratings that aren't all that much lower than the traditional Saturday show has done of late. . .

TV taping on 11/13 in Marietta, GA (for TBS on 24th and 12/1) saw Ric Flair DDQ Ron Simmons when Arn Anderson and Butch Reed both interfered, Sid Vicious worked as a face and Brad Armstrong & Tim Horner (dressed alike) were given a tag win.

Other houses for the week included 11/17 in Tallequah, OK drew 600 fans and $7,000 for the same card as in Kansas City except no Luger. . . 11/15 in Myrtle Beach, SC (Flair & Arn vs. Simmons & Irwin) drew $7,500 (680 fans) while the same night in Rainesville, AL drew a miserable $2,400 house and Roanoke, VA drew $7,000. . .

Event Itself

CLASH OF THE CHAMPIONS: THANKSGIVING THUNDER

Thumbs up: 46 (12.7 percent)

Thumbs down: 291 (80.6 percent)

In between: 24 (6.7 percent)

1. Freebirds beat Southern Boys in 4:50 when Tracy Smothers came Off the rope, but was

tripped by Little Richard Marley, stumbled and Michael Hayes hit him with a DDT. This

was originally going to be a six—man tag with Bobby Eaton and EI Gigante as the respective partners. the real story is that Gigante missed his plane and arrived Late, so they sent Eaton (who may be the best worker in the U.S. on a nightly basis) back to the

dressing room. Still, this was a good open as they kept things moving. Just before the

finish Steve Armstrong dove over the top rope with a cross bodyblock on Jim Garvin, who was on the ramp. By the way, if Gigante had been there, the other team would have won. *

Thoughts about the match?

Tracy Smothers has a confederate jacket and Rebel flag on. Goddamn. It’s every show we do now, apparently.

How about those tights on Michael PS Hayes? (Guaranteed to be a What Bar moment on a future OSW Review.)

Sting appears and has a lot of fun with Tony Schiavone. They pitch to commercial, and even cut to a quick full screen showing the hotline...but creepy music plays and we hear from the Black Scorpion. The crowd sort of sounds like they’re scared by it! He sounds like Dr Claw from Inspector Gadget. I promise you every kid hearing that voice thought the same thing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dS56nNVWgUI

2. Brian Pillman (subbing for The Juicer) pinned Buddy Landel in 5:52 with a flying

bodypress. Rhetorical question . Why has pillman been buried in prelims and not even

booked on the Clashes and PPV shows for the past several months? He did a springboard clothesline out of the ring and a crossblock from the middle rope outside the ring as well as several other hot moves. This was Landel's best performance on a big show since he came back. ***½

Did you like the match?

Were you a fan of Landel’s work?

We get a commercial for Starrcade 1990 hyping up the tag team tournament.

3 . Big Cat (Curtis Hughes) beat THE CANDYMAN Brad Armstrong when the ref stopped the match at 4: 31 when Armstrong was caught in the torture rack. They were pushing Cat's football background. Legitimately he was a parade magazine highschool All—American who was considered a flop in college. Brad was good as usual. Cat has potential but he's nowhere near ready for what they are pushing him for. *

What can you say about this match, about the Big Cat, and about the Goddamn Candyman?

God it’s clear Brad Armstrong hates this gimmick. He just sort of meekly tosses a few pieces of candy out to the crowd. But he’s supposed to be a jobber here and the goal was to appeal to kids, right?

We get another promo for Starrcade. This time, we hear from Dick the Bruiser, who will be the special referee in the main event at the show.

4. Tom Zenk pinned Brian Lee in 3:10 after a dropkick off the top rope. Decent paced but you could tell they had never worked together because of timing problems. Still, it was decent except for Zenk missing a flying bodypress off the top rope while Lee was still in Tallahassee or somewhere. *

This is a must-see botch moment. Zenk just takes off running and does a bodypress behind him on the air. JR has to cover it up and say that Lee dodged him but Lee wasn’t anywhere near him!

What the hell happened with that?

Mike Rotunda does an interview with Tony Schivanone and says he’s legally changed his name to Michael Wallstreet

5. Michael Wall Street (Mike Rotunda) pinned Star Blazer (Tim Horner) in 4:15 with the Wall Street crash (should be called Stock market crash), which is a Samoan suplex drop. No heat for the new gimmick but people need time to learn it. Considering that these are both good wrestlers, this match was a disappointment. *

Alexandria York puts in all the data on Star Blazer. She gets a computer print out on what to do I guess. JR says Michael Wall Street may be crashing.

Did you have a lot of hope for the gimmick at the time? It certainly made for loads of puns…

Pre-taped segment is next.

Gordon Solie arrives with WCW TOP TEN(s). First we have the tag teams.

10. The Juicer and Norman

9. Big Cat and Motor City Madman

8. Tim Horner and Brad Armstrong

7. The Master Blasters

6. The Southern Boys

5. Ricky Morton & Tommy Rich

4. The Fabulous Freebirds

3. The Nasty Boys

2. Ric Flair & Arn Anderson

1. The Steiner Brothers

SINGLES

10. Bobby Eaton

9. Tom Zenk

8. Michael Wallstreet

7. Brian Pillman

6. Terry Taylor

5. Arn Anderson

4. Ric Flair

3. Lex Luger

2. Sid Vicious

1. Stan Hansen (US Champ)

And the World Champion is Sting.

Did you like these ranking segments? Or did they expose the roster’s depth as being pretty shallow (Terry Taylor as number six…)

6. Sgt. Kruger (Ray Apollo) and Col. DeKlerk (Ted Petty) won the African elimination match for the Pat O'Connor tag team tournament beating Kahlua (Larry Hamilton) and Botswana Beast (Bill Tabby. Please explain why WCW is going through all the trouble of importing legit Mexicans, Japanese, Soviets, etc. when they ruined all anticipation and the entire concept with this match? It was obvious these men were not from Africa. And even if they were, nobody is going to care about newcomers unless they've been educated beforehand as to who they are. DeKlerk pinned Beast in 4:48 when Beast had him up for a slam and Kruger dropkicked DeKlerk's back, Beast fell down and was pinned. DeKlerk showed some decent moves but they didn't work together at all. -*1/4

Meltzer brings up a good question: why do this? What’s the point, other than to be able to say “Africa” ?

7. Lex Luger pinned Motor City Mad Man (Mike Moore) in 2:34. Before the match during an interview, Luger decked Big Cat. Anyway, he tried to interfere in this match but it backfired and Mad Man was pinned although Mad Man took the bump well before the clothesline ever got there. Thankfully Luger's charisma and presence made the match seem not so atrocious. DUD

Lot’s of botched segments in this show and lots of super short matches, too. Was the company trying to keep Lex hot going into his Starrcade match with Stan Hansen?

8. Nasty Boys beat Mark & Chris Youngblood via DQ in 4:49 when the Steiners ran in and the Nasty Boys ran off. Nothing happened. 3/4*

If the Nasty’s gave notice before the show, why even put them on TV?

9. Sid Vicious pinned The Night Stinker in 3:30. Two weeks ago I saw a match between two guys, one of whom writes a newsletter and another of whom contributes to this, that, and other newsletters. And the match was real bad, too. But it was world's better than these two guys who are professional wrestlers. This was the worst match I've seen in years. Sid was supposed to make his babyface turn here but nothing was accomplished in this groanfest. Big Cat came down and screwed things up for the heel in the finish again. Sid had the Stalker's gimmick and seemed like he was waiting for rice to boil before he hit the guy with it. After seeing Ox's protege, I'm beginning to respect the ability of JFD. -****

Did you agree that this was a groanfest? What could have been done better?

The Freebirds are at the interview podium and talk bad about El Gigante. Jimmy Garvin talks about shipping him back to Argentina, which would probably be really expensive. The Southern Boys show up with Gigante and the Freebirds flee the scene. Wearing a fannypack and Zubaz pants, Tracey Smothers warns the Freebirds that Gigante will be on them “like a duck on a junebug” if they want to tangle.

Did you ever use the phrase like a duck on a junebug?

The saying “Like a duck on a junebug” is meant to express that something will happen fast. Because when a duck sees junebugs, they eat them FAST.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tOKRgJcho1g

There’s a promo for WCW Saturday Night with Missy Hyatt.

10. Rick & Scott Steiner kept the U.S. tag team title beating Magnum Force (jobbers The Ring Lords with a new name) in 1:57 when Scott used the Frankensteiner on one of them. Nasty Boys ran in and ran out after the match. Steiners looked great but this wasn't a match, it was a squash. *

The Franksteiner is just a shoot hurricanrana, right?

We were promised Sting and the Scorpion face-to-face in a cage with Paul E. Dangerously. What we got was a magician in a Black Scorpion costume running around doing carnival tricks, and not even pretending to lip sync to Ole's voice so you'd think it was the Scorpion who had been doing the interviews. No cage. No face-to-face. He just turned a fan into a leopard. If magic had anything to do with wrestling then Harry Houdini would have drawn big money against Strangler Lewis and David Copperfield would have had a legendary feud with Ric Flair. As one person, who is a reader who has done some magic called and said, "Jim Herd has already killed the wrestling business, now he's working on killing the magic business."

How ashamed were you to be associated with wrestling when you saw this?

Also can someone listening to this please put this on a future episode of ManceSplainin?

11. Ric Flair pinned Butch Reed in 14:13 to earn a tag team title shot. Now, figure this. Slick Ric offered Dancin' Teddy $500,000 just for one title shot which Teddy turned down, even though the two teams were booked in title matches every single night between then and Starrcade at every house show. And in the Starrcade ad, which ran prior to this match, it pretty much said Doom was going to wrestle Flair & Anderson (which isn't going to happen anyway, at least I don't think it will). So Teddy turns the match down and instead we have a bout where it's a title shot and Teddy being chauffer for Flair against Flair's boat and limo, _ _ . The premise was screwed up. The show was screwed up. The coinflip made no sense. And this was a great match. A breath of fresh air which nearly saved the entire show. Great heat. Actual intensity. Flair juiced (hardway). Flair was seemingly the babyface although fans kind of cheered both guys. Each guy was saved from pins from his partner at ringside. Finish saw Reed have Flair pinned with a shoulderblock shortly after Reed had been thrown over the top rope, landing on Long and the ref. Simmons jumped in and clotheslined Flair and put Reed on top, but Anderson then ran in and hit Reed with a chair and Flair crawled on top and got the pin. ***3/4

What did you think about the match? What about the angle?

BEST MATCH

Ric Flair vs. Butch Reed 187

Buddy Landel vs. Brian Pillman 16

Freebirds vs. Southern Boys 1

WORST MATCH Sid Vicious vs. Night Stalker 152

DeKlerk-Kruger vs. Kahlua-Beast 10

Meltzer hated the show and the magic angles. He said:

If at first you do something completely stupid that doesn't work, then what do you do? Why, you do almost the exact same thing again. When you have a booker who longs for wrestling fans to believe in the product, hates what Vince McMahon has done to the believability factor, than does this ridiculous Scorpion angle that flopped except for one Clash rating, and puts on a show with a magic show with the Scorpion (supposedly a mysterious man) and in the closing credits Lists the magician who played the Scorpion and credits thanking the people who delivered the leopard for the magic act, well there seems to be a small contradiction here. Yeah , the Clash was awful. In almost every way. Sure, the first two matches were good. The show was well produced. The live crowd was hot and enthusiastic. But aside from the first two matches and the main event, the wrestling ranged from bad eo one match which reached levels so bad that our Language has yet to invent a proper word to describe it.

Give us your overall thoughts about Clash of the Champions XIII!

How much did this show contribute to the end of Ole Anderson as booker?

FAN Questions

Ray asks...The stipulation of Teddy Long having to be Flair's chauffeur for a day wouldn't fly right in today's environment. Who in the hell book that mess? #AskJR

Mickey said...They seem not to be remembered much today but the Southern Boys always had exciting matches and were popular with fans. Seemed to lose momentum when they were renamed the Young Pistols and turned heel. If kept a babyface team, could you see them as popular tag team champs? #AskJR

Francis asks.....Why was the pat o connor memorial tournament  match not an annual event? #AskJR

Francis also asked...What was the nightstalker greatest match on this ppv? #AskJR

GreyScale asks...Who is to blame for that major botch in the Tom Zenk/Brian Lee match? #AskJR

Wharf Rat asks...#AskJr Did El Gigante have any clue what pro wrestling was before he was signed by WCW?

Stan asks...What did you think about working with Paul E on commentary by this point?