STW - Hornswoggle [Show Notes] (Patreon)

Hornswoggle

According to his book, "Life is Short and So Am I",(Available now from fine booksellers near you) Dylan Postl has really never wanted to do anything than be a professional wrestler.  His dreams started in the backyard and grew until he was formally trained by local Wisconsin wrestlers Shane Hills and Jason Hedrick.  Another product of that gym was Ken Anderson who helped train Dylan as well.  Ken was signed to WWE shortly after Dylan started training, so he got to see first-hand what success looked like.  He also talks a bit about wrestling in some "micro" wrestling league matches.  These used to be very popular in the territory days, and WWE even used to do "mini" matches quite a bit in the 80's and early to mid 90's.  What are your memories of (are we saying midget?) little people in wrestling when you were coming up and how it changed over time?

Dylan talks in his book about his first tryout with WWE going poorly because he kept pestering people backstage for pictures to the point that head of security Jimmy Tillis threatened to take his camera away and kick him out of backstage if he didn't stop.  Is that a fairly common thing with young guys?  I imagine it's tough for some people to just "be cool".

The initial sketch he shot ended up not being used on Raw, but he did meet Fit and ended up getting a shot at being Fit's leprechaun.  He said initially that he was asked to do an Irish accent but just couldn't pull it off.  Do you remember the search for the leprechaun and what the initial plan was for Finley + Dylan?

He made his official debut on the Smackdown after Judgement Day in 2005.  Finley had a match where his opponent was drug under the ring at one point, and then after the match Fit pulled the apron open and out came a green Tasmanian devil.  His initial character seemed to be just chaos, and the crowd ate it up.  Was this something that was thought of as a short term thing and then changed due to the reaction he got?  

He tells a story about a European tour where after a night of drinking he fell asleep during his normal hide under the ring spot, and Finlay had to shake him and wake up him.  He talks about how at tv tapings he'd have a monitor, a mat, and a headset under the ring and he'd be aware of what was happening...but at house shows there'd be nothing under there for him and he'd have to get under the ring before the show started and stay till  the crowd left and it being a bit of a miserable experience.  He said that Vince was always concerned about him and checked on him constantly, always made sure he had what he needed to be as comfortable as possible.  Do you ever remember these "hide under the ring" times and trying to make it easier on the talent under there?  Have you ever done one of these type of angles?  

He continued working with Fit into the new year and when Wrestlemania rolled around Finley was in the Money in the Bank ladder match and they worked a fun spot for Dylan in the match where his old friend, Ken Anderson would cut him off climbing the ladder and give him a rolling senton off the ladder.  It was a brutal looking spot, and a great wrestlemania moment for Dylan.  Even though he's a trained wrestler and has no problem working real matches, the visual of a 6'6" jacked up guy beating up a little person could be problematic.  Was there ever any worry about doing physical spots with Dylan?

At the Great American Bash, there was a Cruiserweight Open where anyone under 215 lbs could enter.  While the bell rang, Hornswoggle ran through the ring, technically qualifying him for the match, then he dissapeared back under the ring making the fans forget about him.  At the end he popped back out, hit his tadpole splash on Jamie Noble and became the new Cruiserweight Champion.  Do you remember why the decision to put the title on Dylan?  

In his book he talks about this time period as Cruiserweight Champion in an almost sad tone.  He took a lot of flack from the online crowd at the time for "killing" the cruiserweight division.  What are your thoughts on the division at that time and how it did eventually come to an end?

In his book he describes finding out that he was going to be Vince McMahon's son as very surreal.  He says, 

"I figured it would be just another day at work but mid-afternoon, as rehearsal was about to start, Vince's right-hand man Bruce Prichard told me to meet him backstage.  When I got there, the first thing he did was demand my phone.  I could tell from his expression he was dead serious, so I handed it over.  Then he said the words that changed my life: "You're Vince's son."

What do you remember about the creative leading up to this reveal and what may have been supposed to happen and why you went with Hornswoggle as the big reveal?

You guys really seemed to have a lot of fun with the cartoonier aspects of things when Horswoggle was on camera.  Jamie Noble turned into Wil E Coyote, complete w/ spray painted hole in wall that only Dylan could use.  What was the driving force behind these ideas and how was it pitching them to Vince?

In the beginning of 2008, the on-screen character of Vince McMahon was trying more and more convoluted ways of getting rid of his "son" Hornswoggle.  Different people started helping Dylan, leading to Mick Foley helping him qualify for the Royal Rumble.  He talks about in his book how flattered he was to have a segment dedicated to his character on Raw when Vince tried to "help" him get experience for the Royal Rumble with a "mini-rumble" full of little people dressed as wwe superstars.  He would end up coming out at #9 and going under the ring for a bit before eliminating Miz, then getting pulled into the ring by Mark Henry.  When Big Daddy V and Mark Henry were about to crush him, Finley ran out with the shillelagh and got him disqualified from the Royal Rumble.  Is that the only DQ in the rumble history?

After the Rumble, Mr. McMahon decided to punish Hornswoggle for his failure by making him join the Kiss My Ass Club.  Except...he bit him instead...an old midget wrestling standard spot, brought into the modern era, if you will.  Whose idea was the biting?

That led to Vince making a match between the two of them for Raw the next week.  During the match Vince tried to spank Hornswoggle to teach him a lesson, which brought out Finley who interferred with the shillelagh and helped Dylan do what Stone Cold never could...pin Vince McMahon.  It's pretty rare for Vince to actually get in the ring, what led to him wanting to participate in this story himself physically?

After the reveal of Finley being his real father, they were traded to the new ECW brand.  Fit was again in the Money in the Bank ladder match at Wrestlemania, and this year, Dylan had a booth at Access and an area next to it that was even customized to look like his "house" under the ring.  He talks a lot here in his book about how meeting the fans really changed his outlook on the business and this is where he realized his potential impact on people's lives.  What can you tell us about seeing a performer like Dylan, who started with the company at 20 years old, grow up and realize their potential like this?

Shorty after, he was traded again, this time to Raw...by himself.  In his book Dylan says the initial plan was for him to ally w/ the new Irishman...Sheamus, but that never happened.  Instead he played host to the "guest host" era of Raw and appeared in a lot of backstage segments.  What did you think of the "guest host" era and what it was trying to accomplish?  

At this point, Dylan says spent his time in catering and pitching ideas to writers who "had nothing for him".  Eventually, he starts getting some backstage skits with Chavo Guerrero and getting some tv time again.  In his book he says he was in the ring with Chavo going over their segment while HHH and Shawn were at ringside and that's when they had the idea to add him to their newly reformed D-Generation X as their mascot.  At this point DX had changed from the edgy humor of the late 90's to a much more sophomoric style of humor and Hornswoggle fit that very well. He says in his book, that looking back this was the best run of his career.  What did you think of Swoggle in DX?

In April of 2009, during a European tour, Swoggle found out that he was going to be a father.  He says that he freaked out at first, thinking he couldn't do it, until he found Finley and Fit talked him down and told him everything would be fine.  Can you speak on the relationship between Finley and Swoggle?  He seems to have looked to him as his road father in a way.

By Wrestlemania season, both Shawn and HHH had moved into serious fueds where their DX goofiness didn't fit, so Dylan was moved away from the group and back into catering.  How tough is it for a guy to understand the creative behind removing him from a, let's be honest, very profitable group...to not being on TV again?

Dylan tells a story in his book about how he lost his phone once and had to go back and ask for everyone's numbers again.  He says that Punk had introduced him to the lead singer of one of his favorite bands a few months earlier and he had ended up getting that lead singer's number and becoming friendly.  When he was getting numbers back, he said that he asked Punk for that guy's number again and Punk blew it all out of proportion calling him a user.  This seems like such a weird thing to get angry about, but we've heard other stories about how it only takes one thing to get on Punk's list.  He says this about Punk, "I think that no matter what he got, it would never have been good enough.  He could have been successfully defending the WWE title in the final match of Wrestlemania where he would be the one to break the Undertaker's streak and he still would have found something to complain about."  How does that line up with your memory of Punk?

Before Wrestlemania 27, he was put on the NXT show as a pro for the rookie Titus O'Neil.  At this point they had done away with most of the "game show" features of NXT and it was just a series of matches.  After this season ended, NXT was reinvented into the developmental brand we know today.  What did you think of the early NXT seasons?

In his book he talks about being a huge Muppets fan, even having tattoos of most of them on his legs.  So when he found out they were going to be "hosting" Raw, he campaigned on Twitter to get used on the show.  It worked and they had him be their guide backstage and did a few sketches with them.  When guys go "around" the writers like this and campaign for something on their own social media, how is that received backstage?  

He talks about how he spent a lot of the year doing anti-bullying campaigns for WWE in schools around the country.  "Honestly, if you're a kid and a guy the size of Mark Henry talks to you about how he was bullied when he was young it's pretty hard to believe.  It's a lot easier to accept the message from the midget.  I loved doing those events and getting to help kids see that little people are normal people, too."

Swoggle says as Wrestlemania 28 approached and he didn't have anything to do, he noticed they hadn't announced the flag bearer for Smackdown in the Raw v Smackdown twelve-man tag match, so he went straight to Vince and suggested himself.  Vince said it was a great idea and they added him to the match.  

He talks about being frustrated that he hadn't had a real role in the company in almost two years at this point and pitching ideas constantly to Michael Hayes who was in charge of Smackdown at the time, but only hearing "we'll get back to you".  How does a performer keep motivated during periods like this where they're not being utilized sometimes at all, but expected to travel and show up?

Later that year they put Swoggle with Brodus Clay, in his book he says, "Soon enough, I found myself on TV as Brodus's little brother, stuffed into a tight singlet, shaking my ass around.  Creative evidently thought that if two girls dancing with a fat guy is good entertainment, a fat, dancing midget would be the icing on the cake.  I really didn't care if they were trying to rib me about my weight-I got some extra TV exposure and that was fine by me.  I was only with the group for a couple months, but it was fun even if it did mean having to deal with Cameron."  This sounds like a pretty healthy attitude to take in getting on TV here.  

Dylan talks about constantly pitching ideas to creative and not being used for almost two years taking its toll on his psyche.  They finally called him with an idea, he was going to be the long awaited "anonymous" Raw GM.  When they called him, they told him he had 3 days to work on his New Jersey accent.  In his book he says, 

"The script had me talking about how I'd been playing the fans as pawns, getting the kids in the stands to beg for my "moichandise" and that their stupid parents had bought it all.  It was building up to the big line, which was "this whole time i've been swimming in the dough!"

He says he just couldn't do the accent, then during rehearsals just kept flubbing until Vince got frustrated and rewrote the who thing to him just biting Santino on the ass and kicking Michael Cole.  He says this was his biggest opportunity to get onto TV every week as a talking character and he dropped the ball.  Given how last minute they came to him with the idea for the accent, do you think that would have been a long term character change or just something for him to do because they didn't know how to end the anonymous GM angle?

In his book he says, "After I'd blown the chance to be "Big Nick", I went back to doing a whole log of nothing.  With no plans for me, I was put together with Khali and Natalya in a group that had no explanation and no direction.  It was just a giant, a woman, and a dwarf who didn't have anything else to do.  Almost an entire year went by where we filled time on house shows and were used no and again on tv, never for anything of importance."  Do you think this was frustration at his "missing" the character so the writers just put him on the back burner?

At this point, he heard the Muppets were doing another movie and reached out to WWE PR to see if he could be involved in any way.  They got back to him and said that the producers for the movie wanted him to be a part.  He flew to London on his first ever first class plane ride.  He tells a story from set in his book, "Because of the focus on footwork and body control you need for wrestling, I got to grips with most of the choreography quite quickly.  Ray Liotta and Danny Trejo had no idea who I was but seemed inpressed that the midget was picking everything up a lot faster than they were.  When they came to ask me how I was doing it, I told them what I did for a living.  The next morning, Ray came over and said, "Hey, me and Danny watched your matches last night and we loved them!"  The two of them spent the forty-five-minutes trip to set that day bombarding me with countless questions about wrestling, asking how we knew what to do and when, how we avoided getting seriously hurt- they were genuinely interested in finding out how it all worked."  

He says when he got back to WWE after filming, Mark Carrano pulled him aside and told him that people were worried about him because of his weight.  He was told that Vince had mentioned it specifically and were concerned for his health.  He was going to be put on a weight loss program and would meet with a dr and trainer at the performance center.  He says they asked him to lose 15 lbs and he ended up losing 38!  The fact that he worked hard and exceeded expectations got him praise from Vince himself after seeing the results.  He says he thanked Vince and asked why he wasn't being used more regularly.  "He asked me if I was pitching ideas to the writers and was surprised to hear that I was doing it almost every week.  I haven't heard that, he replied, come to me from now on.  It didn't surprise me to hear vince hadn't heard any of my ideas.  The impression I got was that the last thing any of the writers wanted was to pitch something that Vince loved and then for him to find out it was someone else's idea."  Is that something that you've noticed at all?

Around this time he was cast as the Leprechaun in the WWE films reboot of the Leprechaun series.  In his book he describes how frustrating the lack of communication was on every level.  He never knew what was happening or when.  He says when he finally got to Comic Con to promote the movie, he still hadn't seen it.  Someone finally brought him a copy to his room that night to watch.  He says "Ninety minutes later, I texted Zack (the director).  The text simply read, "what did i just watch?"  Zack texted back: "I'm sorry, WWE studios changed it around."  He was just as disappointed and upset as I was.  The producers had taken what we'd shot and edited it into something that neither of us was pleased with."  He says what really hit him was when they ran the trailer on Raw and his name was nowhere in the trailer.  He was the only wrestler in the movie...and not mentioned at all.  He says he went to Mark Carrano, then head of talent relations, and blew up.."I unloaded on him, pointing out the company had kept me in the dark about dates for the shoot, not let me see the film until last minute, screwed with the Q & A.  I even pointed out that they'd asked me to lose a bunch of weight and that i'd done everything they'd asked of me.  I said that if the company couldn't get behind me in their own movie, they might as well release me from my contract."

"I never found out how well the movie did, despite asking.  All i heard was "we'll get back to you."  The guys at Ringside Collectables even pushed WWE for a Leprechaun: Origins figure of me to be made and said they'd market it.  Nothing happened there.  Despite all the money WWE must have put into the movie upfront, it didn't seem like they were willing to do anything that might help it succeed.  I still don't understand why.  

I also couldn't understand WWE's behavior when it came to promoting my involvement in Muppets Most Wanted.  After I got my invite to the premier, I went to Carrano and asked if they were going to send a camera crew with me.  I took his reply of "What premiere?" to be a hard no."

He says that the excuse he got from the film division for not promoting his Muppets appearance was that it was "competition" for the Scooby Doo WWE project that had just released straight to dvd.  We have heard a lot of wrestlers say that WWE refuses to promote their outside projects, why do you think that is?

In late 2013, the Colon's were repackaged as Los Matadores, with El Torito, a mini-wrestler in a bull outfit.  Swoggle was no longer the only little person on the main roster.  He says he took this as a challenge and got in even better shape, and started training with his original trainers again to get back in ring shape.  He says when he would ask the writers about pairing the two of them up it would get rejected as "the easy thing".  He finally got his chance when Heath Slater was on tour in Abu Dhabi, so the idea to have Swoggle be in 3MB's corner was pitched.  This led to a memorable feud between 3MB with Swoggle against Los Matadores with Torito.  They had a series of matches culminating at Extreme Rules in a WeeLC match.  Complete with mini commentators, a mini commentary desk, mini announcer, and mini tables, ladders, and chairs.  

After the release of Jinder and Drew, he was back in catering.  He says in his book, "After about a month of being back on the bench, I'd had enough.  I told Carrano not to bring me in unless there were plans to use me.  It was costing the company money to fly me out and pay me.  It was costing me money in gas, food, and hotels and sometimes all that combined would actually be more than I'd make on my guarantee if i wasn't working on the shows.  Above all else, I didn't have any interest in leaving my son to travel out to wherever they were only to spend the day in catering watching other people work.  After my talk with Carrano, I stopped being brought in for TV and was hardly used at all on house shows.  Even so, I didn't regret what I said then and don't regret it now, because that was how i truly felt.  if they weren't going to use me, I didn't want to be there."  We always hear about the amount of talent backstage at any given moment for Raw or Smackdown.  Is it really just a bring the whole crew just in case thing, or have they gotten more streamlined these days?

During this time, he was called for one of the normal drug tests the WWE does for their performers.  It's a "fully visualized" test, meaning you have to pull your pants down, your shirt up, and pee in front of the nurse or dr receiving the sample.  You have 3 hours to give a sample or it's marked a failure.  This time no matter how much water he drank he couldn't give the sample.  The WWE considered this a wellness policy failure and suspended him. He said he spent days sending long texts to WWE officials asking them to not announce it like their normal failures because it would make it look like he was a drug user.  They announced it normally anyway.  He was also told NOT to make a public statement clarifying it either.  He even went and had a hair follicle test done on his own dime, to show he was clean, but that didn't matter.  He says that even now, he had a date that googled his name and that was the first thing that came back.  It still haunts him. Why would they not try and make this clear in their announcements, it seems silly that they would not want to help make this clear they didn't have a drug user given the past history in the industry?

On May 6th, 2016...Dylan got "the call" and was released from WWE after a decade with the company.  In his book he says he texted Stephanie later: "I just want to let you know how much I appreciate what you and your family has given to me over the past ten years.  You've let a four-year-old kid live his dream and made his son incredibly proud of his dad."  

Meltzer wrote, “Hornswoggle had been with the company since 2006. Matched up with Finlay, he got off to a strong start as a popular comedy character geared toward young kids. He also had a run as the illegitimate son of Vince McMahon, a role Ken Anderson was to get but Anderson ran into trouble as the angle was going on. He was used as part of the 3MB act, but that act was dropped and he had shoulder surgery, and then a drug suspension last year, and hadn’t been figured into anything.” He was only 28 at the time of his release.

Since that time Dylan has made a couple of appearances back in WWE, even appearing in the Greatest Royal Rumble match in Saudi Arabia.  

Of his debut Alvarez wrote, “Fit Finlay vs. THE PIRATE!~! One thing I’ll say about the Pirate, he takes a fine beating. Of course, part of the reason it was so fine was because Fit Finlay was the one beating the shit out of him. Fit won fast with the kryptonite krunch. He murdered this fucker. So anyway, after the match, THE MIDGET DEBUTED. Yes, a little midget dressed as a leprechaun. What happened was, Finlay pulled up the ring apron and the little fellow stormed out like a little madman. He stomped and kicked and bit at Burchill, then when Finlay was satisfied he dragged him out of the ring, lifted up the apron, and threw him back under the ring. Apparently, the midget LIVES THERE. You know, I wanted to hate this SO bad, and I’d still greatly prefer if there was no midget, but all I could think when watching this was that Fit Finlay was going to make this midget gimmick work.”

Of his second appearance Bryan wrote, “FIT FINLAY VS. CADEN MATHEWS~! Finlay was beating on him outside when suddenly Caden was dragged under the ring. Finlay went under there and pulled him back out. “THIS IS TV THAT IS CHANGING FRIDAY NIGHTS!” Cole said. I hate that man. Finley hit the kryptonite krunch and it was all over. After the match, Finlay unleashed the MAD MIDGET, who ran wild and beat the piss out of Caden. I have been told by anonymous sources that working Finlay is fine, it’s the fucking stiff midget you’ve got to worry about. The midget is already over, by the way. ”

Extreme Rules 2014

1. Torito pinned Hornswoggle in 10:46 in a Wee LC match. This was a pure comedy match, although probably among the most entertaining of the show. But they way overdid it. They had a mini ref (Short Sleeve Sampson, who got major heat when he posted a photo of himself in the building before the show and in the background you could see John Cena and the Wyatt Family working out their match together–the photo was quickly removed), a mini ring announcer (who called Dylan “Hornwoggle,” which led to endless comedy about him with the botch) and three mini announcers, dressed up to look like Jerry Lawler, Michael Cole and JBL. Really, they looked nothing like them, but were called Jerry Smaller, Micro Cole and JB Elf. Six guys announcing was a bit much, especially since they appeared to each have three jokes that they repeated over and over. Torito did a tope early. Hornswoggle tried one, and ended up caught in the ropes because he was supposedly too fat to get through. They had mini tables, a mini ladder that was a step ladder, and mini chairs. Torito gored Jinder’s ass. Finally after using the step ladder, they brought out the big ladder, that looked all of three-and-a-half feet. Hornswoggle went to the top of the ladder, but he was afraid of heights. Then Torito laid down basically saying he’d let Hornswoggle jump on him. So he did, but Torito moved. Torito then used a small package. Obviously that was meant as a joke “small” package, but with six announcers there, not one picked up the cue. Hornswoggle put Torito threw one table with an elbow drop. Hornswoggle hit Slater with a chair when Torito moved, and Slater fell backwards through another table. Torito did a cross body on Hornswoggle, both Matadores and Jinder Mahal, and they went through two more tables. Drew McIntyre did a running flip dive over the top rope onto Torito, on a table on the floor. But Torito moved and McIntyre went through a table. The finish was Torito doing a springboard Thesz press on Hornswoggle through yet another table. This was total ECW, in the sense they broke six tables in the opener. ***