STW - Mick Foley [Show Notes] (Patreon)

Mick just turned 59 on June 7th and it’s one of our most requested episodes so let’s get right into it Bruce!

When did you first hear of Mick Foley?

You were not in the company when he made his WWF TV debut getting destroyed by the British Bulldogs - did you ever see that match and the broken jaw he ended up getting from Dynamite Kid?

Mick would work the territories as they say - Memphis, Watts’ UWF, World Class - as Cactus Jack. He got quite the buzz at that time. Was he anyone who landed on your radar at that point?

It’s always been said Mick had been pitched many times for the WWF - and we’ve always heard it was because Vince didn’t think he looked like a WWF superstar. There was room for all types of guys, some with awful looks, some with great looks, but what was it about Mick Foley that made the company not interested at all?

Mick would get his first national break with WCW - including his infamous match against Mil Mascaras at the Clash of the Champions. Was he just not ready for prime time at that point in your opinion?

He would leave - do some tours of Japan - start to get some big time matches in Philadelphia for Joel Goodheart, and even the GWF in Dallas - what were you hearing from people in the business about him?

It’s not like he had a bad reputation either right?

His big time break was heading back to WCW and working with the likes of Sting, Ron Simmons & Vader and the Vader matches in particular are brutal. Was it a styles clash with the product the WWF presented?

Mick lost an ear in WCW, major concussions, and was booked to have Amnesia - but he always got a reaction. When someone can overcome bad circumstances, bad creative - that shows Mick’s talent does it not?

Mick was never really on the WWF radar - but he would call every year according to his book and talk to JJ Dillon and be told the same answer every time. Back then - when those conversations would happen - is that just JJ talking to Vince - or is there a conversation with you, Vince & Pat about someone like that?

When Foley leaves WCW in 1994 - he’s coming off big matches with Vader, these tag matches with Kevin Sullivan & the Nasty Boys - he ends up going the ECW route in America and also went to Japan for the King of the Death Matches. Were you keeping tabs on him during this time?

What was it about his work in ECW - the promos, the character, that maybe changed the mind of those in charge of the WWF?

In late 1995 the rumors of Mick Foley leaving ECW and coming into the WWF were starting to take form - and Foley would turn into the gimmick as praising the WWF would make him an even bigger heel in ECW. Its always been said that without Jim Ross pushing for him to come in - and Vince wanting to make an example of Mick by saying sometimes you need your heart broken - Mick wouldn’t have gotten his spot. What say you to that?

Mick has said creative services really crafted the Mankind gimmick - how did that come to be?

When was the first time you sat with Mick to really discuss the Mankind gimmick?

Are you the one who recommended putting Mankind with the Undertaker?

What are the conversations with Undertaker about Mick coming in? Was he excited - and did he see the potential in what it could be?

The vignettes of Mankind and the way they were shot - what was so different about them? How much did you have to do with them?

The mask of Mankind was because Vince wasn’t a fan of Mick’s face is that right?

How different is Mick’s career if Mason the Multiator ended up being the name?

Between the boiler room, screaming Mommy, George the Rat, down to the Mandible Claw…the formation of Mankind is so different than what was going on in the WWF at the time wasn’t it?

What did Vince think of the vignettes the first time?

At the time - you have Scott Hall & Kevin Nash leaving the company - without them moving to WCW - is there room for a Mick Foley?

Mick debuts on the Raw after WrestleMania in a big way, defeating Bob Spark Plugg Holly before attacking the Undertaker, hitting the big elbow off the apron to the floor on him in the main event segment and putting the mandible claw on him. The Raw after WrestleMania wasn’t always a thing like it is now…and this was one of those big moments that started to make it seem like it was the kick off of the reset off of WrestleMania wasn’t it?

Did you think you had a star at the end of that show?

What’s Vince’s reaction to it?

The first match for Mankind & the Undertaker on TV was for King of the Ring 1996 - from the Observer

“5. Mankind beat Undertaker in 18:21 with the mandible claw. Undertaker was more aggressive then usual since he was doing the job. A wild, stiff match with the only negative being that it went too long. Mankind used the elbow off the apron and got a chair, but when he went to use it, Undertaker kicked the chair into Mankind’s face. Mankind took a backdrop on the floor onto the chair. He took a hard chair to the back. Mankind got out of the tombstone and hit a neckbreaker, then went for the claw, but it was blocked. Mankind got a lengthy nerve hold. Later Mankind tried the elbow off the apron again, but this time Undertaker hit him with a chair on the way down, then gave him a hard chair shot to the head. Mankind came back with a piledriver for a near fall. Mankind threw a fit not getting the pin including pulling some of his hair out. Mankind got the urn, but Paul Bearer got it back. Finally Bearer went to hit Mankind with the urn, but he moved and it hit Undertaker. Mankind then used the claw and got the submission win. Fans were basically shocked by the finish. It’s gutsy to have a babyface icon lose in such a convincing fashion, especially a strong gimmick guy, but when they did it at Wrestlemania X with Bret and Owen, it led to some rematches that drew the biggest houses in a long time. ***¼”

It is a big deal Bruce - what did you think of the match - the finish - and the win by Foley here?

This would lead to SummerSlam 96 where Mick and Taker would meet again - this time in the Boiler Room Brawl. We all know the match would end with Paul Bearer turning on Undertaker - but it’s another win for Mick. This is by far the strongest showing against the Undertaker by anyone - beating him, taking his manager of 5 years, very quickly the confidence in Mick was high was it not?

Would Cactus Jack had worked in this spot instead of Mankind?

Coming off of this - a match that many count as one of their favorites - Mankind vs. Shawn Michaels at In Your House: Mind Games. Not bad for a guy who was thought to not be able to put asses in seats to be in the main event for the WWF Title right?

It’s always been reported that the Mankind-Michaels match had the finish called for at ringside by Vince - is that true?

Where does that match rank in Mick Foley matches in your mind?

There could’ve been a lot more with Shawn and Mick had it be a different time?

Buried Alive was next for Mick - and Foley would get another win over the Undertaker - this time with the help of many heels including the debuting Terry Gordy as the Executioner. Did putting Gordy with Mankind & Bearer take some bloom off the rose of Foley?

This would lead to a sort of rebranding for the Undertaker - and Taker gets a win back finally over Foley at the Survivor Series at Madison Square Garden. Was it too many matches between the two?

Foley treads water for a while - which is surprising considering how hot he was - was it a cooling off period needed for him?

Foley got to work with Terry Funk a lot at the Royal Rumble in San Antonio - but really that’s the highlight for him. From there he’s put into a tag team with Vader and they have a match - Foley’s first WrestleMania - against Owen Hart & Davey Boy Smith in a heel vs. heel match. Was it too much too soon for Mankind?

Foley told us the story of Jim Cornette offering up a match at Mania against Marc Mero and Foley turned it down. How many guys can say they turned down a WrestleMania match?

What’s the internal reaction to something like that?

Undertaker is WWF champion coming out of that show - and his first challenger is Mick. At Revenge of the Taker Foley and Taker aren’t in the main event - that honor goes to Bret Hart & Steve Austin, but Taker wins clean and then lights Paul Bearer’s face on fire. Mick is the right guy for Taker’s first defense - but the fireball issues after the match really were a mess weren’t they?

Foley would work with Rocky Maivia at the next pay-per-view, but as the Hart Foundation - Steve Austin program takes shape, and Paul Bearer is yelling about Undertaker’s brother - Foley sort of finds himself on the outside looking in wasn’t he?

A set of vignettes are taped - interviews if you will - with Jim Ross describing Mick Foley’s evolution into the Mankind character - including the Dude Love footage seen for the first time. Did you think he would be a babyface coming out of this?

What did you think of the interviews?

Mankind would find himself in the finals of the King of the Ring tournament losing to Triple H, but there’s quite a lot of cheers for Mick - but this was the first time on a big stage these two men were able to put on a show. Did you think you were seeing a major program in the future?

At Canadian Stampede - Mankind & Hunter would open the show and set the tone for the rest of the night with a great brawl that would end in a double countout and cameras would show them brawling all throughout the arena and the night. How important was Mick to getting Hunter to the next level?

There’s a lot of upheaval in the WWF at the time, Bret & Shawn get into their fight backstage, Shawn leaves the company for a period of time, and Steve Austin - tag team champion with Shawn - needs a partner…and while he continues to turn down Mankind’s request…while defending the titles against Owen & Davey Boy…Dude Love makes his WWF debut. Bruce - how happy were you to see Dude Love make TV?

Austin & Dude would go on to win the world tag team titles that night - and Dude is very over with the crowd. Was there a worry you wouldn’t be able to go back and forth on characters?

SummerSlam 97 is a major moment for Mick - as again him & Hunter would open the show in a steel cage match - this time though Mankind would climb the cage and jump down on Hunter with a pseudo Superfly Splash. Foley would get the win but the bigger news was later that night when Austin was hit with a tombstone by Owen Hart and would end up injured. The tag titles of course had to be vacated - what were the original plans for Austin & Dude if not?

Foley is in the ring as Dude Love when Austin hits that first stunner on WWF management - and it being Jim Ross - holds a special place in your heart doesn’t it?

From the infamous MSG - Cactus Jack made his WWF debut in a falls count anywhere match against Triple H. The reaction to Jack coming on the screen though is one of the bigger ones - were you surprised to hear the reaction?

Foley gets the win with a piledriver through the table and the legend of Cactus was made in the WWF.