Grilling JR - Judgment Day 2009 [Show Notes] (Patreon)

Judgement Day 2009 took place on May 17th, from the All State Arena, in Rosemont, Illinois. It drew a sellout crowd announced at 14,822 

The All State Arena used to be the Rosemont Horizon. It hosted WrestleMania 2, WrestleMania 13 and WrestleMania 22. Steve Austin has said that was his favorite building to wrestle in. What do you think made the Rosemont Horizon/All State arena so special?

We're coming off of the Backlash pay per view, where we saw Edge win the World Title from John Cena in a Last Man Standing match. We also saw Legacy, Cody Rhodes; Ted DiBiase; and Randy Orton beat Batista; Shane McMahon and WWE Champion Triple H. The rules were if any member of HHH's team was beat in anyway, Orton would win the title, which is what happened.

This is also after your transition to color with Todd Grisham on Smackdown. What did you think of this move at the time and as you got more comfortable?

Were you ever comfortable in that position?

Buddy Rose sadly passed away on April 28th. What can you tell us about Buddy Rose and his impact on the business?

Vince had a shareholders meeting on May 1st

He noted with TV now airing on Monday, Tuesday, Thursday and Friday, that they are missing Wednesday. He said that in the past doing that much television would have been overexposure, but today because there are so many stations, it is not the case. He noted that it would allow people who may watch another TV show on Monday to catch up on storylines. 

Was this too much TV with the product at the time?

*He said that while they can always do better, he’s happy that in a tough economy that what he considers the most important barometer of how they are doing, which he said was live event attendance, was holding up so well.

He said he has no interest in promoting MMA. “It’s a sport. It’s not what we do.” When asked about the building of a Hall of Fame, he joked that, “The Hall of Fame (is housed) in my head, actually, somewhere near the medulla oblongata.” He said that they would build a building if it could be a profit center and wasn’t sure if it would work because it’s not a sport like baseball or football.

Think he still thinks that way?

*Donna Goldsmith noted Michelle Wilson was working hard on the promotion of SummerSlam, which would include a huge party before the event. She also said they are having meetings with CNN and USA Today about getting WWE more coverage when a shareholder asked how come WWE is getting less media coverage than in the past.

We’ve seen this expand in such a way as of late with Nick Khan on board…why do you think it took an outside force from professional wrestling for this to happen when so many in the past failed?

A week later, Vince had another meeting and made interesting comments - 

Vince McMahon certainly made his presence felt at his first investors call on 5/7, calling the business results “fair to poor,” when those same results, had Linda McMahon hosted, would have been deemed “spectacular” given the state of the economy. The results didn’t thrill Wall Street either, which dropped the stock price from $11.72 to $11.00 that day. As of the close of business on 5/12, it was at $11.28.

When you look at the stock price now at just over $100 - what a change…are you still a stockholder?

But because the company has done so much cost cutting, with the elimination of jobs and cutting back expenses, the profit margin, while not as high as a year ago, is still healthy. Another factor is the devaluation of several foreign currencies against the dollar, which this year meant about $3 million less in revenue had the value of those currencies been the same as last year, and $1 million less in profits.

When it comes from the top to chop spending - how did it work with you in talent relations compared to this time frame?

Television rights fees were $24.9 million for the quarter, down from $27.6 million the prior quarter. That is due to the loss of some international deals, but it’s still above last year at the time. This figure will increase next quarter with the WGN America deal. This is the one aspect of the business that is going to stay largely a constant because it’s based on long-term contracts signed with TV stations. The only way this varies is based on making and losing deals. Even if ratings collapse, the revenue will stay the same at least until those deals expire.

What a change in this just 15 years later isn’t it?

There was some controversy with Kurt Angle at this time. Meltzer reported -

The WWE fired back this past week, after two plus years of Kurt Angle claiming that Vince McMahon refused to give him time off for rehab in various interviews.

The company released a statement to the Miami Herald on 4/15 stating that Angle was released on August 25, 2006, because the company mandated him to attend rehab and he refused. Angle has for years claimed that despite all the reports of the company letting him go, that he was the one who quit. He even claimed at one point that he worked Vince McMahon in pretending to have a problem so that 

McMahon would be scared and release him, since he wanted out because of the schedule. The company also stated that their doctor told WWE management that he was concerned over addiction issues on May 30, 2006, and recommended Angle be sent to rehab, and once again, Angle refused.

However, WWE, in trying to bury Angle, somewhat opened themselves up, because Angle continued to wrestle and was being pushed as a top guy after he refused to go to rehab. WWE noted in its defense that Angle was suspended on June 27, 2006 for a Wellness policy violation, but that violation was for testing positive for steroids after a prescription he had for steroids had expired, and had nothing to do with an issue that would require going to rehab. WWE did, even when informed by its own doctor of Angle’s issues, continue to use him until August, through both constant bizarre behavior during that period and a series of injuries.

John Laurinaitis responded in the article to that note by saying, “What I remember of that situation was somebody recommended that Kurt may need to go be evaluated. I believe Kurt was dead set against doing that. I was told in passing that was told to Kurt and Kurt and his wife refused. At that time I didn’t see anything in Kurt to warrant that (treatment), so to speak.”

All I can say is that is a very interesting response given what was going on and being said during that time period.

How heavily involved were you with Kurt and his exit from the company? What was your relationship like with him at the time of his WWE exit?

Meltzer reported - Stephanie McMahon had a meeting with the wrestlers at the last TV and told them that this is the time the company is looking to make new stars, that nobody is going to be held back and that they want everyone working as hard as they can to reach for the brass ring. They also encouraged people to come up with ideas for their character and storylines, which is an about face because generally the writing team has seen guys who come up with ideas and pitch them, unless they are top guys who are seen as having the stature to do so, as guys who are bothersome. 

The reaction I heard was that the wrestlers basically feel in this day and age, with the exception of the guys who are already established who are booked strong to begin with, or a few that the crowd likes no matter what, such as Mysterio, the Hardys and Punk, the only way to elevate yourself is through mic time because people are pretty much blase when it comes to a well worked five minute match as compared to an average worked five minute match.

This seemed to happen once every year - do you think the talent ended up thinking it was hollow?

Meltzer had an interesting report about Superstar Billy Graham -

Superstar Billy Graham was furious at first regarding his release papers because there was a clause in the release that stated he wouldn’t be able to use his name in any capacity related to wrestling any longer. What happened was WWE made a mistake in sending him a form letter release, with terms that didn’t apply to him. Since he had prior usage of the name before ever working for the company, he’s still able to use it for personal appearances (although he was uncertain and canceled a 5/17 appearance in Boston for fear he’d be sued for using the name).

It’s just that WWE, based on its contract, could still market him if they see fit in perpetuity or put his matches on future DVDs. On 5/4, Joe Bogdan, WWE Senior Vice President of Legal Affairs contracted Graham and told him that he owns the rights to all of his previous wrestling names, Wayne Coleman

(used in Stampede Wrestling), Billy Graham and Superstar Billy Graham. Team 3-D did lose its claim to the Dudleys, but that was because they didn’t come up with the idea themselves, but Paul Heyman did, and WWE bought the intellectual property of ECW. Graham started working as Billy Graham in 1970 in Los Angeles, and Superstar Billy Graham probably late 1971 or early 1972 (he did the complete Billy Graham gimmick he made famous in 1971 in San Francisco, but was called “The True Spirit of America” and not “Superstar” for Roy Shire) in Los Angeles. 

A funny story related to that same subject. In 1987, when Bruno Sammartino’s contract as an announcer expired and he decided against renewing, Linda McMahon actually called him up and told him WWF owned the rights to the term “Living Legend.” You can just imagine how that one went over. Nobody stopped billing him as“Living Legend” though. 

Do you think WWE should let guys they fire/release use the names they came to WWE with after they're gone from the company?

Meltzer reported - Pat Patterson made a return to San Francisco (actually Newark, CA) for a Kirk White autograph show on 5/9, which is the first time I’ve heard Patterson do an autograph show here. He left the area more than 30 years ago (although he did work some main events for the AWA in the early 80s), and that’s so far back that even though it was the biggest convention audience White has had, Bret Hart was the big star even though Hart, who has a girlfriend in the area as well as family in the area, has been here numerous times. 

Patterson was selling CD’s of him singing karaoke, but not many were interested. Patterson noted he realized that he preceded the generation that people who attend these things want to see. He also told a funny story. 

In 1968, there was a mother and daughter who he’d see at every show for months, always shooting photos of him. He said it seemed like they were stalking him but he also figured maybe they just loved wrestling that much. Then, the daughter got pregnant and the mother claimed Patterson was the father, which, well, would have been impossible, given that Patterson as legend has it has never slept with a woman (he denies the age old San Francisco legend of the Ann Calvello story). 

It actually got to a judge and Patterson swore he never had sexual relations with that women. The judge confided to Patterson in chambers that he knew the mom and daughter were lying, then told him what big fans they were of him, had him autograph a bunch of stuff and let him go. Anyway, the same woman showed up at the convention, hugged him, wanted an autograph from him, etc. 

The legacy of Pat Patterson was brought up as in 1999 when the Stooges took on Mean Street Posse how it was the most watched wrestling match on cable in a long time - what can you tell us about Pat and his legacy in this business?

WWE ran into some problems with the double booking of an arena they had. Meltzer reported -

A unique double-booking that turned into a national news story, turned into a publicity campaign for WWE.

WWE officials learned on 5/17, after the Los Angeles Lakers win over the Houston Rockets, that the fourth game of the Western Conference finals between the Lakers and Denver Nuggets was scheduled for 5/25 at the Pepsi Center for a game scheduled for a live broadcast on ESPN, the same night that WWE had booked the building for next week’s live Raw event.

It was clearly a screw-up by the arena people, as once it became apparent the Nuggets were in the playoffs, and that it was a possible night for a game, WWE should have been alerted. WWE officials claimed no such thing happened. For 6/7, the night of the Extreme Rules PPV, at first WWE did a back-up booking at a different arena in New Orleans when the New Orleans Arena, originally booked for the PPV, could have hosted a Hornets playoff game. 

But once the Hornets were eliminated by the Nuggets, the 6/7 date no longer had a conflict and WWE switched back.

WWE claims, and the Pepsi Center, owned by Stan Kroenke, who also owns the Nuggets, have not disputed this, that they booked the date in August, and signed a contract on 4/15 that did not include a potential out clause, which if true, puts them in good legal footing. It is commonplace in the arena business when you have a major sports franchise as a tenant that at least once it becomes obvious the team was going to make it to the playoffs, all possible playoff dates are put on hold at your home arena. It’s mind boggling if WWE was never contacted about a potential problem until 5/17, eight days before the event and when there already was a guaranteed problem.

At that point in time, the Pepsi Center made the recommendation to have the WWE show moved to the Denver Coliseum, a 10,000 seat arena. There would be problems, such as the changing in seating. About 10,000 tickets had been sold for Raw at that point in time, and with comps, the Coliseum would be too small. WWE also would have no space for its usual production that cuts off almost 30% of the capacity of an arena.

At press time, six days before the event, no new location was announced for Raw. WWE was playing it up as a publicity stunt, sending out a press release saying that the Raw television show was “in jeopardy of being canceled by the Denver Nuggets,” when there was never a chance there wouldn’t be a Raw taping. At press time, they claimed they were coming to Denver and would run the show in the parking lot of the Pepsi Center if they weren’t allowed in the building. 

There may be a possibility, although nobody has brought it up, of WWE taping in the afternoon, but whether the arena could set up in time for the game would be a factor. The argument would be that WWE could tape its show and it would make no difference in the ratings, but if the NBA taped the game in the afternoon to air in prime time, the same wouldn’t be true.

At Raw, none of the talent was told anything about the schedule for this coming Monday. The company had called up several hotels in Colorado Springs, about 70 miles outside of Denver, looking for hotel rooms on Sunday night, indicating the World Arena in Colorado Springs, where Smackdown was being taped on 5/26, would be a possible location. Of the two suggestions that were being talked about behind the scenes on 5/18, that would have made the most sense. The problem is that arena set up for Raw would only hold 6,000 people, so going there instead of the Denver Coliseum would be inconvenient for fans having to travel significantly longer distances in most places to get there, and have less seats open. 

Another idea talked about was taping Raw on 5/23 at the scheduled house show in Salt Lake City. The negative is the crew would have to stay in the area on Sunday and Monday, because they’d also have to work the Smackdown taping on Tuesday.

McMahon was quick to paint Kroenke as the enemy. On Raw on 5/18, the situation was never directly talked about, and when plugging upcoming shows, only listed the Friday through Sunday Raw dates, not mentioning an arena for Monday. Jim Ross, who came in to the show late to replace Jerry Lawler, doing an injury angle since it’s Louisville (not his home town, but still his old territorial stomping grounds), was clearly fed remarks to rip on Kroenke during the show that came out forced in delivery.

McMahon was on ESPN News, being interviewed by former employee Jonathan Coachman, which was interesting on a number of levels.

“Quite frankly, it’s my view that Stan Kroenke should be arrested, should be arrested for impersonating a good businessman, because he’s not a good businessman. A good businessman doesn’t book a World Wrestling Federation (yes, he said World Wrestling Federation) live televised event on Monday night realizing that his team in all likelihood would not make the playoffs.”

This is the type of shit Vince loved wasn’t it?

Were you happy with your role in the run up to Judgment Day?

That takes us to Judgement Day

In the dark match, Mickie James pinned Beth Phoenix with a DDT. 

The first match was Umaga vs CM Punk

At WrestleMania 25, CM Punk won the Money in the Bank ladder match, on the May 1st Smackdown, Punk was about to invoke his championship match against the World Heavyweight Champion, Edge, but Umaga interfered and beat him up. The next week, Punk was given another match against Edge but was again attacked by Umaga. It was announced later that night that Punk would face Umaga at Judgment Day 

Umaga pinned C.M. Punk in 11:52. This result is hard to fathom, other than the company’s usual directive of always wanting to make the guy look bad in his home town. 

It’s been ingrained in the writers that, in particular when you have a babyface in his home town, you make him look bad because it’s easy to get heat that way. But to me, that’s backward thinking other than the idea that home town fans will make their guy appear to be a bigger star than they are slotted to be more often than not, and there seems to be an aversion to allowing that unfair competitive advantage. 

It was a good idea to open with this match, and the idea that since Punk has the briefcase, he can put people over right now is sound. But for a company that is dying for mainstream acceptance, and here they have a guy who was grand marshal of the Thanksgiving Day Parade in Chicago and it doesn’t get anymore acceptable than that, you should throw the local fans a bone. Putting Punk out first got the crowd into the show. 

Punk was kicking Umaga so much lighter than he does with almost everyone else he faces. It was almost funny, because he was doing 10% of his usual velocity and it was way too apparent. Both worked hard and it was a strong opener. The story was Punk continually trying to get the Go to sleep, and Umaga just being too big. Umaga escaped it one last time, hit a thrust kick, a running hip attack and the Samoan spike for the pin. ***¼

These two together seemed like magic didn’t they?

Christian pinned Jack Swagger in 9:33 to retain the ECW title. Maybe a slight disappointment in quality. Crowd was into Christian early. Christian used a Silver King dive early. Swagger threw him into the post to get some heat. Christian came back until missing a splash off the top. Swagger got a near fall with a belly-to-belly superplex. They went back-and-forth with near falls. 

Swagger tried to use the trunks but was caught by the ref. Christian pulled Swagger’s straps down, causing a reverse Lawler effect, and then used a rolling reverse cradle holding the trunks for the pin. Storyline is that Christian continually outsmarts his less experienced opponent. **½

Do you think the company was doing either of these guys favors being in ECW?

John Morrison pinned Shelton Benjamin in 10:08. Morrison tried a springboard 450 splash to the floor and he was very lucky he was wrestling a guy who was national JC champion in the 100, because he was falling down way short and with a slower man, he would have been hurt bad, but Benjamin reacted swiftly and made the save. A lot of good athletic stuff here. They tried to tell the story that these may be the two best athletes in the company, but that Benjamin doesn’t even think Morrison is in his league.

I can see that mentality, a guy who was a star in football, wrestling and track, being compared with a guy who looks good in the ring because he did gymnastics growing up. Funny thing is the gymnastics is more applicable to today’s pro wrestling. Crowd was quiet in the middle as Benjamin was working on Morrison. 

Morrison did a springboard Thesz press, that Benjamin blocked and the idea was to hold him and run toward the corner and give Morrison a power bomb into the turnbuckles. The idea was a letter better in the dressing room setting it up and live they couldn’t overcome the degree of difficulty factor. Morrison won with a springboard high kick into his split legged corkscrew, which is called the Starship pain. So was he a geek for Star Trek or the Jefferson Starship? ***¼

There was a lot of tough creative at this point - and these guys just didn’t seem to be in a spot for success - but still a great match was it not?

Were you surprised Shelton & Morrison didn’t end up doing more in the WWE?

The Miz came out and did some of the best mic work of his career, although the constant running down of John Cena without Cena coming out has to get explained at some point. He acknowledged Morrison calling him “Marty Jannetty.” You know, the guy in a tag team that ends up with his career going nowhere when the more talented partner becomes a superstar. Or maybe he was saying that his former partner got way loaded last night. Either way, the lack of crowd reaction was cringe worthy, as in he was way too inside for his audience.

But he started getting over when he ripped on the Chicago Cubs never winning a World Series. He then pointed out Alphonso Soriano of the Cubs in the front row, who is a big Cena fan and does the “You can’t see me” when he hits a home run. Miz said to him, “You can’t see a World Series as long as you play for the Cubs.” He challenged Soriano, who didn’t get in the ring. He explained that since Soriano is a Cena fan and didn’t get in the ring, then that’s another win for him over Cena, making him 4-0. He explained four wins is more than the Cubs have seen since 1908 in the World Series. 

Vince loved this type of stuff right - but was this good use of pay-per-view time?

Eventually Santino Marella came out. I miss the days when they actually did dramatic turns that people remember for years. Marella is now a babyface because he insulted Vickie Guerrero on Raw, and now came out against Miz, who he called Fiz. He thought Soriano was Italian and wanted to go out to dinner, and mentioned Vickie Guerrero was a pig. 

He showed photos on the screen making fun of Guerrero as a pig and Vladimir Kozlov, and then Miz asked what animal would he be, and Marella said a jackass. They went at it, with the crowd very much into Marella’s milliseconds of offense before Miz laid him out with a DDT. The segment was good, but went way long. After Miz left, Chavo Guerrero came out and gave Marella a frog splash. That stemmed from earlier in the show, Edge told Chavo he was a loser and told him he should do something about the cross-dresser who called his aunt a pig.

This segment - really - did it help anyone?

Rey Mysterio retained the IC title pinning Chris Jericho in 12:37. Best thing on the show. The story here is Jericho guaranteed he would not get hit with the 619 and would win the title. Jericho was doing his Nick Bockwinkel big words interview. Crowd was hot at the beginning, except the loud chants were “Y2J.” Mysterio wasn’t booed, although when Jericho late in the match had Mysterio in the Walls in the middle, they reacted big like they wanted to see a title change. Mysterio did a Thesz press off the apron and a legdrop off the top for a near fall. First time he tried a 619, Jericho got out of the way and backdropped him as he came running. 

Jericho used the Abyss shock treatment move and Jim Ross noted he was doing Lucha Libre. Well, the way he got Mysterio on his shoulders and was running around in the torture rack was an Atlantis spot. Ross noted that the referee in this match was the same one who disqualified Jericho in the four-way in Madison Square Garden. It made for such an awkward moment when he wasn’t allowed to say Charles Robinson even though a decent percentage of the crowd probably knows his name. 

Jericho used the spinning backbreaker for a near fall (the quebradora). Mysterio tried a huracanrana but Jericho blocked it into the Walls, but Mysterio escaped. Jericho blocked a 619 in to the Walls, and pulled Mysterio in the middle. Fans were cheering Jericho like crazy here. Mysterio got a near fall with an inside cradle. He tried a huracanrana, but Jericho turned it into a power bomb for a near fall. Mysterio then won clean when, after his fourth attempt, he hit the 619 and won with the springboard splash. ***¾

The next match was for the WWE Title; Randy Orton defending against Batista

Since January 2009, Orton had been feuding with the McMahon family, leading to his match with Triple H for the WWE title at WrestleMania 25, which Triple H won.

At Backlash, Orton, Cody Rhodes & Ted DiBiase, defeated the defending WWE Champion Triple H, Batista and Shane McMahon in a 6 man match to win the title. On the April 27th Raw, Batista defeated The Big Show by CO to earn the title match against Orton at Judgment Day. 

Batista beat WWE champ Randy Orton via DQ in 14:44 so Orton retained the title. Batista had a nasty cut above his left eye that needed eight stitches visible as he came to the ring. It was the dreaded mystery cut, as nobody was saying what the real story was, and it played no part in this match as Batista never bled. Orton got the early edge and then Batista made his comeback. The story here was that Orton continually tried to get counted out to save the title. Batista would have to go outside the ring and throw him back in. At one point Orton was outside and grabbed the ringpost and held on. 

But Batista still managed to get him back in by the ten count. A third time Orton tried to get counted out and Batista threw him back in. They did a spot where they kept blocking each others’ big moves, including Batista pushing Orton off an RKO attempt. Orton then grabbed his belt and tried to hit Batista, but instead Batista speared him. Orton then slapped the ref for the DQ. Ted DiBiase and Cody Rhodes hit the ring for the beat down, until Ric Flair made the save chopping everyone in sight. The finish would have gotten over terribly except they went right to the heat and then brought in Flair, so by that point people, surprised by Flair, didn’t react badly to the DQ. ***

Flair was kind of a surprise at this spot considering he had just debuted in Ring of Honor - were you shocked to see Naitch back?

Orton & Batista knew how to work together didn’t they?

The next match was John Cena vs Big Show

At Backlash, during the World Title match, The Big Show interfered and threw John Cena through a spotlight, resulting in Cena losing the title to Edge. During the came out & distracted Big Show, causing to him losing the match against Batista. The next week on Raw, The Big Show demanded a match against Cena, & Vickie Guerrero made the match between the two for Judgment Day

John Cena pinned Big Show in 14:57. It started with the “Let’s Go Cena, Cena sux” dual chant, but not nearly as loud as usual. Mostly it was Show working over Cena’s ribs. He rammed Cena’s ribs into the post. He continued on him until Cena countered a choke slam attempt into a DDT. The story here, which incidentally, was getting old considering it was the same story basically in the Batista match and Jericho match and Punk match, is that Cena kept trying to do the STF, but Show was too big. 

They pushed the idea, which was a build for the submission match at Extreme Rules, that it is physically impossible for Cena to get the STF on Show. This would be a lot more logical of Cena hadn’t put the STF on Show 500 times over the past several years. Show did a Vader style reverse splash off the topes, but Cena kicked out. He missed the second one. Another STF that didn’t work. Cena came back with yet another STF that didn’t work. Finish saw Show go for the knockout punch and Cena ducked and used the Attitude Adjustment for the pin. Match was boring but the finish got over big just because Cena picked up a guy who was so big after Punk couldn’t do the same with a guy 130 pounds lighter. Cena hugged Soriano on the way out. That makes even less sense why he didn’t come out earlier in the show when Miz spent so long challenging him. *¼

The psychology of this as pointed out by Meltzer wasn’t great…

The next match was for the World Title; Edge defending against Jeff Hardy

On the May 1st Smackdown, a #1 contenders match took place to determine who would face Edge for the title at Judgment Day. Jeff Hardy defeated Chris Jericho, Kane, and Rey Mysterio in an elimination match to become the #1 contender 

Edge pinned Jeff Hardy in 19:53 to retain the World title. Hardy used a flip dive early, but when outside the ring, Edge sent Hardy into the post. He also speared him off the apron to the floor. Not sure where it happened, but Edge had a nasty cut on his right shoulder that was bleeding most of the match. Crowd seemed tired here. It may have been they were taken out of the show by the prior match not getting over. These two did get the crowd by the end, but it took a lot of work. Edge tried a power bomb, but Hardy countered into a Toyota roll for a near fall. 

Edge was put on the announcers table and Hardy started running the barricades, but Edge got up and jumped off the table with a spear knocking Hardy off the barricades. That was a great spot. They teased Hardy losing by count out but he got back in time. Hardy came back with a legdrop off the top but Edge got his foot on the ropes. Hardy used a whisper in the wind for a near fall. They ended up fighting on the floor. Hardy used a poetry in motion off the ring steps on Edge. Both ended up fighting in the stands when Matt Hardy came from the stands and clocked Jeff with his cast. 

Edge threw Jeff into the ring and went for the pin, but Jeff kicked out. Edge went for a spear, but Jeff ducked and Edge speared the turnbuckles. Jeff went to climb to the top, but was acting all groggy and dazed and lost his balance. Edge climbed up the ropes and brought him off the top with a DDT and got the pin. These two always have a good match. ***3/4

These together are just magic aren’t they?

Jeff in a top spot was always something that should’ve happened - why do you think it took so long?

Was Edge the best heel in the business at this point?