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Lincense to Print and Sell (Patreon)

Published:
2020-02-17 19:14:58
Edited:
2020-02-17 19:19:34
Imported:
2021-02

Content

Hi guys,

We receive A LOT of questions if we are going to offer a merchant tier. We were very reluctant to allow other people/companies to print and sell our models as we have our own store with physical minis and those two things are a bit in conflict in our opinion. More important reason was that Patreon as a platform does not have enough tools to control such option. It does not have enough infomation, patrons from merchant tier could come and go and we would not know if they still sell prints or not, companies could have different patreon accounts etc. 


Despite our doubts it is clear for us now that 3d printing on demand market is getting bigger and bigger. There will be more and more people that would like to offer their 3d printing services and people that will want to use it. We want to be a part of that community so here is our approach:


1. Instead of a Merchant tier we will create a "distributor" contract for people/companies interested in working with us.

2. There will be a flat license fee of $120 to print and sell for 2020 in this contract. 

3. Distributors will still need to support us on Patreon to get their files so they will have a choice if they want to have minis from all releases or only a part of them and that won't have any effect on the license fee.

4. We will also receive 20% of sales of minis created from our files. 

5. We will discuss individually how those sales will be verified (online store reports, accounting reports, etc.).

6. Payments will be done every 3 months (so will verifications).

7. Distributors will need to define where they will sell our models (online stores, actual stores) so we have a way to determine if certain store/person does have the rights to sell or not.


If you are interested in this kind of cooperation drop me an e-mail at r.lakomiak@titan-forge.com and we can discuss specifics. 


Cheers,

Romek



Files

Comments

Anonymous

Very clever. Well done.

DDDMystic

I'm very interested in selling your amazing models, however, you're asking people to pay $39-$40 per month (more than anyone else I've seen) AND 20% of sales on top of that? I'm not sure that price point will make it worth it.

Anonymous

I do something very similar with my lasers. EveryLittleWar.com. It's complicated. Good luck!

DDDMystic
>>32593830

Or are you saying pay $120 for contract for the entire year. And separately, collect 20% of sales every 3 months?

Anonymous

Is it just models released on Patreon, or will we have access to print and sale others from your catalog?

Anonymous

Thank you very much for opening this up for us. I have sent an email expressing my interest to be able to work with you guys!

Mike Michaels

20% of net sales is insanely high.

Anonymous

So 120$ for a whole year on top of the 10$ for every month so thats another 120$ total after a year on top of the 20% every 3 months. Depending on the seller that may cost them more then it's worth. I think simply getting into a contract where they pay you 20% of sales and the normal price every month for the files is good enough. Reaching for an extra 120$ is simply being greedy and reaching for your merchants pockets. That's just how I feel and think about this.

titanforgeminis

This deal is something that we drafted with the knowledge that we have from boardgames contracts that we worked on. We created minis for publishers that had license agreements between 5-30% depending on how much work was on the license holder side and how much content was created by the publisher himself. Also on the quality of the IP ofc. As our models are pretty much ready to print we aimed somewhere in the middle and we think that it is fair but we are open for dialog. If you have examples of other companies that we can compare offers with or maybe examples from other areas than 3D printing we would be happy to check those and make adjustments to our original offer. We do not want to be seen as greedy but on the other hand, we won't offer our hard work for less than it is worth. It is hard to find the actual worth of those rights to sell at this point. We want both sides of the deal to be happy and I am sure that with your help we can find the best option.

Anonymous

Edit : you know what, it doesn't matter what I think. The owner has the right to do and price whatever way they choose.

Anonymous

Well, I think If worst comes to worst and people don't like the % cut at all, you can just bump it up to 35$ for early bird, and 40$ for regular merchants, I'm pretty sure people will pay that given your sculpt quality. Much luck with your endeavour

Anonymous

I was one of the patreons that had proactively reached out about a merchant license and was pumped to see communication come across with a subject line of "License to print and sell". Unfortunately, after doing the math, I will not be able to take advantage of the new licensing tier. Based on possible yearly sales of $25000 20% of yearly sales = $5000 Flat yearly selling license = $120 Yearly Patreon fee - $120 Total fees = $5240.00 Versus other vendors of the similar quality and reediness to print: $35/month - selling license = $420 Total yearly fees = $420 Considering that I would be responsible for taking on all of the cost for producing the sell-able product with no further support from the publisher. I would have to cover the cost of equipment, maintenance of said equipment, consumables, marketing of the product, labor, and the cost of the platform to sell the product. By the time I add-on the above expenses, the price per printed miniature would put me outside of the competitive market. Unfortunately, there's really no money to be made.

Anonymous

Well, this helped me to decide which of 3 great artists I'll sell in the future and which isn't worth it. I thought you would go the same way as the other 2, which have similar quantity and quality. I was wrong. So thanks for that.

Anonymous
>>32594918

Agreed insanely high considering I would do all the work, labor, marketing and provide materials. After already paying for the model with a lower priced tier.

Anonymous
>>32596077

Small shops dont have the capital or mass production abilities of other companies. No one is gonna buy the Steam Dragon if I try to sell it for $200 because I have to pass all the cost onto the consumer. Instead they will buy the $80 whizkids dragon that is good enough.

Anonymous

Despite everyone's harsh reactions, you have every right to make your contracts and decide what you want if people want to sell your products. That being said, you'll get a lot more people participating if you either do a 10% flat fee or $25-$40 per month. Every other Patreon pretty much has a merchant fee now with the tier cost at $25-$40 per month. While it is okay to compare us patrons to industry standards and big companies, the main thing is that most patrons are people in their own houses that just do it as a hobby and might be interested in making a few bucks or the money back on their printer costs by selling prints. Thanks for your models and I will still be a happy patron!

Benjamin Walter

I fear with that amount that needs to be invested there yould be hardly any profit left for the printer, especially for smaller ones.

titanforgeminis
>>32597375

License without % won't be an option for us for sure. We can think about the numbers and flat rates but for me it is not fair if one person pays $35 and sells $200 per month and another pays the same $35 but makes $2000 per month. If you make serious money based on our product I believe that we should get a cut from it. If someone uses it just to grab a few buck from 3d printing we do not expact to have the same income from that person. To be more specific. If you want to make 25k usd from our minis and you only want to pay $420 for that then we probably won't be able to work together because it makes no sense for us at all. $420 for $25000 in sales is 1,68%. I do not know any other business where creators would be happy to work on such cut.

titanforgeminis
>>32599085

We will come up with something that will let home workshops to sell their works without a huge investment but at the same time we need to be able to charge companies that want to make serious sales of 3d prints from our files. With all comments here and on e-mail we should have a rational idea in 24h

Anonymous

I think a lower % cut would be the most reasonable then. Small sellers won't feel it that much or at all, and large ones would still have to pay a meaningfull amount due to sheer volume. This amount of % cut plus an upfront entrance barrier does not make it seem friendly for smaller seller. Edit: Just read the response to Nathan Salvador, I am really excited about that idea!

Anonymous

I get the point of view from a small time seller/workshop stating that it is a big investment, but is it really? Most businesses in any industry work off a 30% profit margin. (If they can, if not less). With the example above $25000 yearly sales the cost for the product/design is roughly 20% you have the other $20000 to sort out the cost of running the workshop and expenses and profit . At the end of the day with out the product/design you have nothing to sell. They have put in the hard work to design the models and distribute them for average consumers at a super low cost. They didn’t have to open this discussion and offer a “merchant tier” as why would you they have their own business selling made models. They are doing this for the love of the community and an opportunity to be part of it and get there name out there more. I thinks it’s fair across the board. As they stated there is no real way other then how they can provide this then what they have stated above so they don’t get exploited by competitors/businesses who my be a direct competitor to there current made model business and it’s their product they can do what they want. I’m here as a hobbyist who enjoys their models (amazing) and in my opinion take it or leave it.

Anonymous

I'm very excited about this. I think these designs are amazing and top-notch, and they'll sell well (I would list them as premium prints and sell accordingly). I'm a startup who doesn't even have a resin printer in the house yet and I do agree the commission and annual fees are a bit high for me, but think they're very deserving. I don't know what the precise numbers would be since I haven't started operating yet and aren't very well versed in maintenance costs over time, etc.. but I think commission is a very fair method of compensation to these fine artists. I've done a lot of FDM printing with PrintableScenery, amongst others, and I very much appreciate that they very rarely need supports and are very easy to print. If these prints are of similar quality, then post-processing and whatnot should be very low, which I believe could be the more costly part of selling prints? In addition to designing the prints, Titan-Forge also spends time photographing their models and this is also fairly time consuming, and in a private email they agreed that sharing of marketing material was their intention, and they have a solid brand.. I'd love to also see photographs of painted models, and be able to also include those in the material shared. Definitely view this as a partnership though, and would help them in any way I could as well.

Anonymous

I think the quality of your miniatures are great and I appreciate the effort to create a merchant tier. The current asking rate is in line with someone who has exclusive rights as if you created the model just for them. Hypothetically there can be 10-30 or more competitors selling the same printed file.. If I was reselling a physical print you make I can see paying you wholesale.. and charging retail for it. But paying 20% of sales on a product that I’m already paying patreon to have access to and a yearly commercial license fee to permit me to sell them how can I stay competitive and make any worthwhile profit? I’d recommend either doing what almost every other patreon commercial license does... or find your exclusive commercial vendor and have them pay the 20% sale premium to be the sole vendor. Again thanks for the effort.. these are my thoughts as a patron that has considered becoming a vendor not an argument Or in anyway trying to discourage you from your pursuit.

Anonymous

MyMiniFactory announced today they will start offering 3d printed and delivered, which could become a very large printing shop in this market. I know you sell your STLs there, would you also be selling printing rights to them as well? Do you have any details on their offering from a company selling via them?

CycyX

If you want to take a look at some other companies, just head over to Artisan Guild, RocketPig Games, Print Your Monsters, Cast N Play, Duncan Shadow Lucas (all on Patreon): they all have a merchant tier, without yearly fee nor percentage of sales. And I'm sure they're pretty happy with the deals... Anyway, this doesn't change the fact that your minis are very nice, but you seems to be thinking only in term of mass production, not about the small webshop in a dark corner of the net.

Anonymous

The yearly fee ends up coming out the same as a $20 tier Patreon ($10 in addition to our $10 monthly). So maybe a good compromise here is to just bump up the monthly instead of a one-time annual fee? Or go to $40 a month and forgo the commission like Duncan offers.

Anonymous
>>32617839

Well, look at their answer to Nathan Salvador here in the comments, they seem to be working on something.

Anonymous
>>32623347

They already said that they wan't a % based system no matter what. So, I think they will keep the % but lower the etnrance barrier, would be the smartest way to do it. If the homeshop business got a low output volume they wont be as hurt from the cut as an high volume vendor. But an high barrier (upfront yearly fees) and a high cut are the wors for low volume production. If they are concerned about big seller they'll just drop the entrance barrier.

Anonymous
>>32602925

Ye its kinda weird for me to just compare this potential product to other patreons merchant tier. So what if others do it more convenient for big sellers? At the end of the day nobody got unlimited merchant slots and people want Titan Forge minis, there IS a demand.

Anonymous

A percentage based share makes sense to me, as does a licensing fee on a yearly basis. What doesn't make sense to me is a flat percentage fee on the sales price. 20% of my profit? Sure. 20% of my printed model's MSRP? I'm being charged 20% on all overhead and labor and have to compensate in how I price my models, leading to an artificially inflated pricetag for my customer. What about if I offer a painted model? Do you want 20% of the painting fee as well? That's exceptionally out of the question then.

Dallas Fitzgerald

I've reached out to you personally regarding a license to sell your minis in my brick and mortar storefront. As pitched here, I'll likely pass. I'd gladly pay a monthly premium tier for the license OR 20% licensing fees of all sales. Both of those seem fair to me. I'm not going to pay a yearly fee up front, pay a licensing fee, AND keep paying monthly for Patreon. I'm very happy with your sculpts and will continue backing for personal use regardless, but it's disappointing to see you offer a Merchant Tier that's so unfriendly compared to Creators putting out similar quality sculpts. As an aside, thanks for the Amazon set you dropped today. That was really cool. I hope you don't take my feedback on this personally, I'm very happy with your stuff and will continue recommending you to people for personal use either way. I'd love to stock your minis on my shelves, though! Just not as presented.