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“That has nothing to do with the fact that you apparently think it’s okay to kill innocent people,” said Emiliana.

“It is not ideal, no,” said Gohvis. “But if human nature itself is so flawed, then from the purely logical standpoint, there is no such thing as an ‘innocent person.’ Everyone is contributing to the decline of humanity merely by being alive.”

She took an exasperated breath. “That’s so wrong, though...”

“Mm. Hence why I said that only those who have known hatred for humanity are able to understand it, much less believe it. Try as they might, humans are not purely logical beings.”

Agh...

Emiliana wanted to keep arguing, but she felt like she would only be reiterating her disapproval and dismay in various new ways, and that didn’t seem very helpful.

Her eyes went to Agam’s book again, and another thought occurred to her. “Isn’t there a third option for dealing with the problem of growth?”

Gohvis merely looked at her, again seeming as if he might already know what she was going to say.

Emiliana was not going to let that deter her, however. “Making human growth sustainable. That’s a solution, too, isn’t it?”

“Hah.” The Monster sounded in equal parts dismissive and amused. “I am sure the supposed 'brains' of the Vanguard would be pleased to hear you say that. Or they might even be foolish enough to argue that growth isn’t a problem to begin with. But it is all wishful, emotional thinking--unsupported by the science. A dispassionate mind will see reality for what it is, no matter how horrible.”

It seemed they would have to agree to disagree on that point, but Emiliana was afraid to say as much. There was precisely a snowball’s chance in lakefire that she would be able to change Gohvis’ mind on a subject like this, she felt.