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Kingdom Ep. 3 (Patreon)

Published:
2021-04-23 13:00:01
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Content

I have some issues and criticisms for Kingdom which I hope they change soon. I feel like my critique may be a bit divided so please share your thoughts down below!

note: I believe I said sometime at the end that Road to Kingdom didn’t create any original music but that would be incorrect. I totally forgot about the last episode. My bad! Rest of the review still stands.

...

For more Kingdom content check out the Master List here.

To check out the entire Master List from other groups go here.

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Comments

Luana Paes

Oh eu aumentei meu nível apenas para assistir a esse show, existe a possibilidade de recarregá-lo por favor?

Mira S

tbh kingdom is soooo boring to watch compared to rtk. the stages dont hit as hard for some reason and i feel like the grps just dont wanna be there. performances are too focused on being ‘grand’ or ‘cool’ the only one i genuinely enjoyed so far was btob’s missing you. i honestly would have dropped if tbz (my ults) weren’t on the show. this is just my opinion its not rlly an unbiased critique lol

Doyoungismyult

I love the dynamic between all the groups. They are all so sweet to each other ❤️ I love the stages as well

Katerina

PD!! I would love u to react to Day6’s new album!! ><

St4rkill3r

I'm not too mad about every stage being grand and that there are no new original songs (last episode will be new songs). This show is kinda meant to be like that, giving u stages that you won't even get at award shows. Cause you can always get basic stages, raw stages that solely show the talent of a group but you cannot get creative stages like these anywhere but on this show unless you produce them yourself but why would any company do that. Now what I do agree on honestly is that some of the songs were solely remixed for a performance purpose which is sad. Some remixxes changed the song so much that I wouldn't call it a song anymore, nothing I would actually listen to on its own. What I am really mad about is mnet not allowing the groups to interact more, surely rona does its thing with that but still. I believe one of the btob members even said they are straight up not allowed to interact. I wish this was more like queendom in that case

Anonymous

I've not watched this reaction yet as I'm still at work, but I wanted to say something based on what you have said previously. I feel like people have this hate towards the props that have been used on the stages, but isn't the whole point to be able to stage a production which some of these groups would never have the chance to do. Some of them have never been invited to an end of year show so would not have that same opportunity as the more popular groups. I feel as long as they don't become dependent on props and still showcase other elements within their performance, it doesn't matter, such as their live vocals, choreo, facial expressions etc Also the voting system makes no sense to me, although it is to be expected as that is what RTK was also based on. 40% based on global votes is a large percentage for those who do not have a large fanbase already present, such as SF9 and TBZ. I feel it takes away the element of surprise from the rankings, as two of the categories are already predetermined (views and voting) due to the sheer difference in fan bases. Personally, as a supporter I would prefer professional evaluations (which we do get) over fan based. I'm still going to watch Kingdom as I support a lot of the groups on there, but from now on I'm going to take it with a pinch of salt and not worry over it. I'll get happy over the interactions and performances and try and vote, but that is it

Tesa
>>58337202

from what i saw on IG this morning, they seem to interact in ep 4 and have actual conversations!

Anonymous

I still think fan voting system is nit unfair. Ofc it is needed in this kind of show, but still

Sherry

Damn i agree so much with PD. After kingdom is out the budget issues are so overwhelmed to the point where it gets annoying. I mean from my unbiased perspective as a multistan, they are the one who decide what props they wanted to use and how their stage flow is going so blaming it 100% on mnet by calling it budget issue is not it. And i do think that apart from btob and ikon, other groups has becoming more driven by how they wanted to make concepts like tbz (i didnt mean that they copy tbz). And i KNOW mnet is snake but this is a competition with rankings involved. Which means that even if ANY group ranked last, they will be fanwars and issues that come out by calling mnet snake etc (for this ep its budget issues). Like i know the cameraworks are sometimes kinda shitty but i can see that they were the ones monitoring and deciding what kind of flow they wanted as well as the camera movement so i think blaming it 100% on mnet by saying that they favor one group over another is not right. Again, im definitely not siding with mnet or kingdom and i love love love all the groups but sigh i just wanted to enjoy this program without seeing the comments literally EVERYWHERE blaming mnet for this and that.

Andreeeea

i actually disagree with the fact that they are trying to beat tbz at their own game. I personally think that the zzz trio are groups that already have showcased stages with cool tricks in the past. I do think that they are drawing inspiration from the boyz but i dont see it as "trying too hard" to beat them. I do agree with the fact that some of them are pushing themselves too hard.

Samantha

Okay so before I give my personal opinions, let me preface this with clarifying that I am a professional who works in the live theater world. I've worked and am currently working in multiple different sub divisions of theater and rn I'm currently a teacher/trainer and director. So for context, that's how I look at these stages, as a performer and professional. HOWEVER! Don't get me started on the way voting is being handled for this, it's a mess and all 6 groups are going to suffer at some point throughout this show bc of it and mnet's stupid fucking choices. Personal Breakdown here: About the stages: as someone who has to do budgeting and help to create sets/stages from scratch let me tell y'all this: Ateez's stage was not expensive. I'm not saying this as a biased thing, it's my professional experience in the industry in live theatre and dance theatre. Even if they had started their staging from scratch (which they didn't, the ship was a mix of pieces from the Illusion set and their concert set), it still wouldn't have cost to the limit that mnet put out (late and with bad communication I might add so like the zzz line really shouldn't be getting hate for that but fandoms are a mess so like I guess we just have to live with that). With that being said, here's a group by group breakdown ignoring the set's used and focusing just on the performance that each group did by looking at rearrangement choices, vocals, choreo, and acting. The Boyz: Loved the concept and the performance, however for their stage I wanted more literal levels. It took me forever to figure out what it was from their performance that just wasn't that last like 5% to make me fully love it like I did with their rtk stages. It was the fact that when they were on the center/main stage behind the fire thing I wanted them to be spread out/lifted up in certain spots to make the staging more dynamic. It's a picky thing on my part as a director but I feel like that little thing not being there made them lose points in my opinion. Vocally I was so in love with it all!!! I was a bit worried when they chose No Air because I wasn't sure how well it would be translated to a more "epic" stage like their other songs from rtk. But they did such a fantastic job with a really unique concept with the POV acting that it all tied together really well! Overall, 8.5/10. iKon: THE MUSICAL THEATRE VIBES OF IT ALL!!! They got me. They had me the moment Bobby started and then when the horns came in on the hook of Love Scenario, I was on Cloud 9. And don't even get me started on DK covering Hanbin's rap, my heart was singing I s2g. Then the switch to Killing Me was acted and flowed so well that legitimately for like 2 seconds I, just like PD, forgot all about the Boyz performance. When they did the part singing/rapping directly to the camera near the end of their performance, it was just so unique for a show/stage like this that it felt purely iKon and really took over the acting to make it just them being the fantastic idols that they are. For me, this was the best performance of episode 2. Overall, 9/10. BtoB: Oooooooooooh my god, the beauty of it all!!!!! The vocals along with the traditional Korea theatre choices added into the stage made the whole performance so incredibly alluring that even as someone who has never really been a Melody in the 9 years I've been into kpop, I had a moment of considering joining the fandom! (I literally cannot afford it tho lmaoooo) Not to mention that their backup dancers were creating the world of that stage so subtly and wholly that the story became clearer with each moment. AND THE FIGHT SEQUENCE!!! I cannot believe that they managed to pull that off with all of the trees and robes and so many obstacles in the way! My fight choreographers would be giving Minhyuk a standing ovation if I showed them this! Definitely an 8/10 for me. The reason I didn't rank them higher was because I feel like they needed to incorporate the fight into the song a bit better. It was like a full stop break rather than a connected moment. SKZ: This arrangement. I don't think I'll be over it for like at least a year. One of my guilty pleasures in life is listening to epic soundtracks/classical pieces whenever I'm working on something that doesn't require me to focus on words and this version of Side Effects/God's Menu would fit right in there. The darkness of the stage along with the boys becoming victorious over their demons right there on stage, while not fully becoming "good" or "heroes" really hit all the right story line spots for me! Vocally, I think this was one of their better versions of God's Menu because with the acting element of this stage they allowed themselves to get into the vocalization of it all much better than other versions of this stage that we've seen. However, I think that their choreo being literally all over the stage detracted from the performance as a whole. I wanted to see more of them in a single space more than they were for this performance. However! They had the levels that I was missing from the Boyz's stage. I'm kind of on the fence still about where I personally place them overall in rankings but my personal score for them is a 9/10. ATZ: My personal fave. I have to be honest straight up here, this was it for me. Starting off, 10/10 they fully deserved that win. They had a clear story, strong acting, and incredible vocals (not just Jongho but like also GET IT !!!!!! THAT 4TH OCTAVE THO!!!). I expected the world from them and by god they delivered. Not to mention the choreo was so strong and stood out to show all the strengths of their group. We got to see the acting of each member, each member had a vocal/rap moment, and the choreo is honestly one for the books. I can't get this arrangement out of my head, Hongjoong and the Edenary team are just hitting all of my favorite musical choices for this one. By the end of it all, I couldn't help but fully love and support this stage the most. SF9: They deserved better. This stage was INCREDIBLE. The acting and choreo with their backup dancers was stunning and honestly something we'd see in a more professional theatrical performance. I kind of fell in love with the backup dancer ladies ngl. The thing that knocked them down a bit for me was the stunt that didn't really need to be there. I think it's a thing, especially in kpop performances like end of the year ones and for shows like this, that you NEED a stunt to make your stage full. I don't really think so. I think if they had kept the levels of the stunt while still doing choreo with maybe some more vocal flairs or some singular choreo stand out moments rather than the full stunt it would have felt more well rounded for the stage and overall would have felt stronger. I feel like in the quest to be more like the zzz line, they forgot their own strengths. They were lacking when it came to vocals for me when we know they can do it along with a lack of group choreo moments (which I know are hard for them to create now with all of their schedules off in 500 directions but still, they are an idol group for this), it just took their stage from great to just good. 8.5/10 for me! Personal final ranking: 1. Ateez 2. iKon 3. Stray Kids 4. The Boyz 5. SF9 6. BtoB Really interesting how differently I ranked in comparison to you, but I did have different personal criteria and vibes from each performance. Can't wait for next week along with your reaction! 😊

BaoziBang

I didn't take the budget issue into consideration while I watched the performances, at least I think I didn't and I think I know what my personal problems with all the stunt/probs was. Things like the Set, Probs, Stunts ec are supposed to ENHANCE a Performance NOT be the focus. The only 2 performances where I was forced to watch IT 2-3 times before I could really focus on the Members were TBZ & SKZ. That shouldn't happen. The Members should be the focus of the performances for the most part.

Céline Verhaeghe

the first round took like 30 hours to film in one setting. This is what I heard at least :) Also maybe you should check out the performance video that they put out on Youtube as well, which is what counts for the global voting. You can clearly hear them singing live and make vocal mistakes. You can for sure hear it in the Ateez performance video from San. So I know they tweaked it in the full episode. A lot of people gave Ateez attention and praise for their performance, so for me it is good thing. I did see a preview for the next episode and you will be shook for sure.

Holly

Dude I miss RTK... I feel like in Kingdom everyone just has the pressure to do bigger and better and more fancy and more dangerous and its just snowballing. It’s honestly become kinda uncomfortable to watch cuz the behind the scenes is always someone getting hurt or being scared because they’re doing something dangerous. In RTK we actually got to see the groups’ creative processes when coming up with their ideas! Like for example, TBZ coming up with their Quasi una Fantasia idea or ONF coming up with their It’s Raining arrangement. In Kingdom they just tell us what song they choose and then go on to show someone getting hurt or something. I feel like it’s just gonna snowball because no group wanna lag behind the others (which I totally get. Not saying its the groups’ faults). I hope Kingdom does unit stages or like a bright concept challenge or smth idk so that the participants can actually show off why they love performing instead of how good they are at it. The only reason I’m still watching is because TBZ are my ults. I absolutely loved their RTK stuff but I’m sadly not feeling it in Kingdom. I hope they can come up with something that has a much more cohesive storyline and focus on portraying that instead of adding wow factors.

eli_nhdoaek

it would really be nice to see a stripped down performance between all groups. just pure talent without all the frills and thrills

Irene K
>>58336235

agreed. In RTK it made sense for the perfomances to be grand because the groups were more underated/from smaller companies so it was a chance for them to do high-budget perfomances. In kingdom all the groups are already big and have already made grande perfomances(MAMA,MMA,AAA etc.). so doing the "same" grand, dark, acrobatic-prop based perfomances with different themes every week its a little tiring. I wish they would each show their colors without trying to satisfy the mainstream

Lauren Miller

I do think Ateez deserves first place. Their performance was the perfect combination of creativity, complexity, and skill; they showed off their vocals, dancing, and showmanship in an invigorating way, and I appreciated, like you said PD, that they improved upon Wonderland instead of changing it completely. I won't really say much about the others, but I do want to address one thing with SF9... I think they are the Oneus of the competition right now. They're dynamic and creative, but in an artistic and lyrical way, which, when pit up against the other groups in Kingdom, comes off as understated or underwhelming. I really do think they have the talent and drive to steadily improve and grow from this experience, so I'm looking forward to their performances in particular during the next three rounds.

Anonymous

I wanted to see you watch SF9's performance before I put up an explanation that I saw of it and it made the performance so much better in my eyes (credit to @an_hoang29 on Twitter) SF9's stage is inspired by the movie Perfume: The Story of a Murderer. The film tells about a man who aspires to find the best scent in the world and make everyone yearn for it. The boy discovered the scent recipe by killing a young girl to get her scent (Chanhi's scene). Continuing the movie, he kills 25 girls to make the scent. He was put to execution, but he dripped the perfume on a handkerchief (that's why you see all the members scrambling for red handkerchiefs) and everyone is infatuated with the scent and forgive him. Finally, he dripped perfume on himself (Hwiyoung) and let the villagers bite him to fight for the scent. The content is very related to the title Jealous and associated with the show To The World - Kingdom program theme

Irene K

I agree with you that most groups are trying to be actors/acrobats/magicians when they are PERFOMERS. Since when singing live and dancing is not enough?? I would much rather have them sing live(with voice cracks, breathing etc) and dance a nice routine than this circus. Also I think mnet should give them more specific themes so they can be jugded more fairly. How can I compare a hip perfomance with a vocal heavy and a rock one? like it doesn't make sense!

Chi T.

fully agree with your criticism PD *nodding twerking*

Holly

Ateez incorporating Dvorak gives me the same energy as ONF incorporating Complete into It’s Raining. It’s SO satisfying when a song arrangement works perfectly like that lol it makes me so excited haha. I feel you on that remix comment, i.e, like a bunch of groups had like ‘dance break music’ that was just like random edm beats with no lyrics or smth idk how to describe it but I def wouldnt add those to my playlist :(

Holly
>>58349792

omg that’s so cool- it gave me Penthouse vibes when i was watching it at first lol

excellen

Nah, your opinion is not controversial at all...actually, thank you for talking about the dangerous stunts. I also said that I was concerned about this in the first episode but most comments I see on reddit and twitter have been about the budget issue or the voting system when again you see in this episode another group member getting hurt because of stunts. I'm not even a SF9 fan but I got super nervous because of the behind the scenes where he was talking like he HAS to do the stunt to make their performance better and he kept failing the jump. And in the end they didn't even showed it properly and I honestly don't think even if he had pulled off the jump perfectly that it added that much to the performance. Doing dangerous stuff out of context for the perfomance does not make it automatically better at least for me. Like you said ONF's It's Raining performance didn't have stunts and it stand out because of the amazing arrangement and dance performance. I also don't care about props...just like with the stutns, having props doesn't automatically make a performance good or bad. About your other point about the music I also agree specially because this round's theme was to choose one of your songs to show the world and most of the remixes I think did a poor job at that. Also, for Road to kingdom they did release some of the songs on spotify besides the final ones, like ONF's Everybody and It's Raining, Pentagons' Follow, Verivery's gogobebe, Golcha's remixed version of wannabe and more. I also think that some fans are getting too caught up with the ranking positions. For me the lessons learned from Queendom and Road to Kingdom were: 1) like PD said in the first episode, don't expect fairness from Mnet; 2) the final rankings is not really what matters, it's how well received the performances are by the public watching...till this day people still mention certain performances from queendom and rtk because they were good not because the group performing it ranked 1st, 3rd or last; 3) the rankings don't determine any of these groups worth...ranking low doesn't mean any of them are bad or less talented

Rain Sparks

Lol Youngbin is the second oldest and Chani is the youngest. They have always looked and acted like brothers in my opinion though. I think your criticisms are a lot of people's criticisms. But like I personally am not going to watch a show like Kingdom in hopes for a typical kpop comeback performance. I want something more. Which is why I gravitate towards the more narrative and concept driven performances. And if it is not that then something that at least grabs my emotions like The Boyz and Oneus's collab in RTK. However, when deciding my personal rankings I just go with what I liked the best. So, 1. Ateez, 2. Tied for The Boyz and SF9, 4. Stray Kids (I still feel like they brought more to a show like this than the last two), 5. Ikon, and 6. BTOB. However, I enjoyed all of the performances. I'm looking at it in a go big or go home way, but I would also prefer like you mentioned in your video them to try to be safe about it. Like Ateez's was very impactful, but I can't remember a moment in which any of them were in dangers of hurting themselves as bad as some of these other group's stunts. So, you can bring the power without putting yourself into danger. My heart broke for Sf9 during this though, because they worked so hard just to fall into last place. Don't think they deserved that spot either.

nins

I'd also like to point out SF9's Jaeyoon is turning 27 (international age) this year, so he's on the older side of the group. Groups usually have the younger members or acrobatic members do stunts. Jaeyoon is neither of those. He shouldn't have done it to begin with.

Tesa

i completely agree in regards to the dangerous stunts. if they don't add to the story or creativity and with that can also cause a serious injury, then they shouldn't be performed. i personally am never wowed by those kinds of stunts anyways.. in terms of song remixes, i didn't actually think of that while watching the performances, but you're right! one of the reasons RTK was so cool is because you could listen to all the songs on their own after the show. hopefully this changes in the next episode when they do the covers. aaand i can't not mention but, Ateez was definitely my favourite performance!

nins

The bottom three groups are the ones who had a limited, smaller budget. I think that's very telling too. Most people don't take the time to ponder over which groups utilized what; people usually vote for the flashiest. And in this case, the least internationally popular groups suffered even more. Imo I think Kingdom did it on purpose :(

Amanda Araujo

i totally agree PD, like you said ONF's Its Raining didnt have anything dangerous going on and still was an amazing and creative performance, also i thought ATEEZ's performance was incredible and probably the best for me and they also didnt have any dangerous moves it was just pure creativity with other things. i also think it was totally irresponsable for the company or whoever is in charge os the performances to let Jaeyoon do that jump and yes hes not used to those kind of moves which makes it worse because at least members like Chani and Taeyang are more used to do those stuff so it would have been easier for them but i guess since he had more time to practice than the others he ended up with that part, but i was so nervous watching it because even Jaeyoon failing many times and getting injured he was still thinking he has to do it even if it kills him like??? why no one stopped that? and its fucked up that like you said after all that they didnt even show the jump properly. i also feel so bad that no one voted for them and the budget stuff i dont really care for that as well but the "professionals" clearly did so im glad that for the next round the performances seem more fair in that regards and i hope they take care of every group better too

Anonymous

My last comment I swear, as I've finally finished watching Like I said in my previous comment, no one should be hating on groups using props but I also 100% agree on what you said about the stunts, they are getting ridiculous. This is almost becoming a gymnastics competition rather than a performance competition. My ranking (I struggled with this): 1. ATZ - This was a very well rounded performance, story was told perfectly with good choreo (lack of dangerous stunts) and an explosive ending which tied it all up. They also fit the theme of the round perfectly, they introduced the entire concept of the group which is based on pirates and the arrangement of the song was amazing as well. Every member got to shine and they also showcased their vocals which, I feel, a lot of the other groups are taking a backseat on, I mean they're performers, isn't live singing a part of that..... 2. iKon - This was an almost seamless performance. I loved the transition and they showed that performance and stage presence is all you really need to get through this. They had this flair to their performance that no one else had. The only reason they are 2nd is because ATZ is 1st 3. SF9 - I think this may have just been filmed badly. After finding out about their concept and what they had tried to portray, I re-watched it and I loved it. I think it did hurt them that they chose a movie that was not popular and not a lot of people could relate their performance to. I felt Jaeyoon's jump was unnecessary, but their acting and facial expressions were amazing and I really liked the song arrangement. 4. TBZ - It hurts me to say this, but this performance was a little messy. I feel they should have used the water scene in other aspects rather than just the vid at the beginning. They started really well with the concept, but the storyline was not laid out well and I just got a little lost in the middle. I loved the stunts, although again dangerous (Sunwoo wasn't even holding the rope!!) and I did really enjoy the choreo. 5. BtoB - Same reason as yours PD. It was a good performance and vocally they were very impressive but in a competition like this, I don't think it stood out that much 6. SKZ - I actually didn't like the first part of their performance at all. When God's Menu came in, it definitely got better for me, but I felt it was messy, didn't flow and there was no consistency in what they were trying to do Also, these professionals really disappointed me. They clearly only looked at the spectacle in front of them instead of looking at any inner depth of song or story. Was expecting so much more

Alex P

ATEEZ - basically a flawless performance in my opinion, everything they did was so readable, nothing was messy, the momentum they created and maintained was amazing, and their live vocals were strong across the board. Stray Kids - thought it was amazing except the momentum wasn't great during transitions a couple of times, and the live singing was dissapointing. SF9 - My least favorite performance of the round, unfortunately. The performance played like a "we feel like this is what a Kingdom stage is supposed to be" stage. The stunt, even performed perfectly, was not all that visually stimulating and didn't make sense thematically. If they had leaned in harder to the sexy concept and kept it a bit simpler i think it would have been much nicer. As for the camera angles / how well the performances were being captured, i think you could really tell what groups had more camera direction built into their performances than the others, and i think it's clear that some teams have a better grasp of getting the shots they want, so i just see it as part of the competition too and not a reflection of how Mnet wants to show each group. Let's face it, Mnet doesn't have to put anything into this show, they're asleep at the wheel while these 6 company's fit the bill and prepare the performances.

Christian Oettl

I really hoped that the pandemic would be at least somewhat under control. Because the missing audience and thus the resulting focus on online votes and way bigger stage to operate, compared to Queendom, changed the way the performances are created. On Queendom while concepts were important, because of the stage there wasn't a chance to have massive props like RTK and Kingdom. That was also why Mamamoo could do so well on Queendom and BtoB will have some problems on Kingdom. Their strength are the vocals. And while you can put the focus there, without a flashy performance with a massive storytelling part you won't get far I would say.

Elizabeth

Dawon reminds me of jimin from bts

Wendalla

the missing live audience is making the performances too "theatrical" since they can manipulate the stages and angles anyway they want. Sometimes I just want to see them just doing regular singing and dancing more like in Queendom.

Betânia Camille Backes

I feel like I understand why the companies (and the groups themselves) have this vision of trying to play the boyz' game. If you think back to RTK, even though there were groups with gorgeous executions, great themes and meaning behind the performances, they lost to TBZ more theatrical and flashier performances. However, at the same time, I also think that this is a part of the Z-line style, regardless of RTK. Both Ateez and SKZ showed this side of them before, and I think they are not necessarily going out of their way. I think it could be a mixture of both things, but I totally agree that regardless of the reasoning, safety should be prioritized during these performances and the crazy stunts are getting too dangerous. Btw, my ranking for the first round was 1. Ateez 2. BTOB 3. SKZ (tied) 3. SF9 (tied) 4. iKON 5. TBZ

Quil

I don't see anyone pointing it out but since you mentioned how long the shooting must be, apparently they filmed it in a little more than 30 hours

Sakura

As PDnim said KDM has become a battle of concepts. I saw a comment (not here) doing almost Shakespearean analysis of the concepts and saying they didn't understand ATEEZ concept. Is it adventure, overcoming your fears? Gurl, is not that deep, just pirates. I feel like the songs are just an excuse to create an intricate story and the rhythm is so weakened they lost its momentum. I felt a little bit of that with side effects. Also, would y'all have understood the concept if it wasn't explained previously? I just have thought the shadows were back dancers lol. I loved BTOB performance but why a sword fight in a song about missing someone? I love the opportunity the groups have to offer grand performances but they forget what makes you a real performer: the capacity to entertain just with pure talent, dance and vocals. With some stages I am so distracted trying to understand what's going on I forget about the music. Also I do understand playback in Kpop since you have to prioritize dancing, but since its Kingdom I think they all are talented legends and could pull It off. But they are so worried about the acting and storyline that it gets on the way of raw talent. I loved ATEEZ because I could still recognize the song after the remix and the pirate theme was more an aesthetic to complete the performance than a "you have to read between lines to get the concept" thing. Killing the kraken was like 5 sec long and it didn't stop the dynamic of the song, it was more epic because of the music. The rest was raw vocals and sickening dancing. I really think they deserved first place this week. Also I would like to see a no props stage so they have to work with raw talent.

Sakura

I love how ateez Yeongsan doesn't say a world but still gets screentime. I see me in him, my strategy in live is also nodding in agreement and hoping to go unnoticed. Kingdom viewers will never know how savage he can be.

Anonymous

I think not having a live audience as you said really influences the stages that are presented. I can't imagine actually enjoying a stage like The Boyz's if I was there to view it in person with all the acting cuts and close-up needed to convey the musical performance compared to say iKon where the music carried them through (though the transition was also not as cohesive). I agree with you, and I really hope that groups like iKon, BTOB, SF9, Stray Kids, and Ateez do not succumb to concepts and compromise their sound and color just to fit within the Kingdom competition. I am not as familiar with The Boyz, but from what I have seen so far I feel that they are still developing their sound/color compared to the others mentioned.

Wendalla

I agree with PD's comment about how ONF its raining performance was most memorable not because of props and theatrics, but rather the arrangement of the song, the delivery, and the members' vocals, dance, and rap made it so good. just like how the best performance on queendom was oh my girl's destiny. the arrangement of destiny was impeccable and the emotions and vocals the girls delivered were what made it so memorable. in kingdom, there's too many dark concepts which isn't bad but if every group was trying to do a dark concept like evil, devils, vampires, demons, etc. its clashing too much. most of the kingdom groups are relating good performances = dark concepts, but as seen in ONF and oh my girl's case, that is not necessarily true.

Izak
>>58338627

I actually don’t think the fan voting is as big of a deal as it seems, it only seems that way because groups with bigger active fan bases are also better in expert and i self rankings too, skz have the biggest active/ dedicated fan base but if they were getting lower rankings for expert and self evaluation they would likely still only be ranking 3rd as highest overall and because the intro round was 100% fan voted people kind of think about that too and forget the next rounds aren’t just fan votes and so a group cannot win purely because their fan base is bigger, if their performances aren’t baking it up then they still won’t win.

Wendalla

as a stay I was a little disappointed in skz 1st round performance. coming into this show I expected a lot from skz musically, since they have 3racha who has a lot of say in their music but the arrangement of the song didnt meet expectations. it was too concept-driven that the music aspect was ignored. I hope this improves in the 2nd round when remixing another group's song.

Anonymous

I think people don't understand that nobody would watch Kingdom for "Music Show" performances. Stripping each group of their props and stage production, making them all perform simply with singing and dancing, wouldn't actually showcase any of their raw talents. They are all seasoned professionals performing their previous songs, there is nothing impressive about someone's ability to memorise what others have choreographed for them. 50% needs to be based on their own reinterpretation of their songs through concepts and the other 50% is how they express those concepts.

Izak

A lot of what you said I agree with although noting we watch it on the programme with cuts with the idol reactions whereas they are watching the full versions and I recommend checking the full versions uploaded onto YouTube out before rankings because they flow better then and it changed some of my rankings actually. I feel like a lot of groups have learnt from exactly what you have said here for the next round. I feel like group expect ateez were either sacrificing their strengths to emphasise other things for wow factor or coolness or they were sacrificing other elements to over emphasise things they believe are their strength and only ateez really found the best way to balance it all. I think btob attempted to do that but it didn’t flow well. Sf9 including stuff like that jump is an example of them putting something unnecessary in to add a “ wow” factor like the boyz on rtk but it just doesn’t fit sf9 and didn’t work. Skz was balancing well in the start as u said but it got lost in the second half, while the skz energy was there, you miss a lot of their vocals and dancing in their attempt to do flashy things. The boyz i think for me are a little lost overall, they’re not sure where to go and what to do because they did so much on rtk and they can’t think of a way to do better than that and that’s kind of trapping them a little, they’re trying to think of bigger things they can do than what they did on rtk and their storyline has lost its coherence, it’s not as clear especially for those who have not watched game of thrones, their strongest point on rtk was that evenything linked so clearly and you knew exactly what they were trying to achieve but while their performances on kingdom are top level, they lack the attachment that rtk performances gave us. No spoilers here but I have watched the next episode and I feel a lot of groups learnt from the balance ateez had and from the critics given by the experts and worked on balancing their performances and enhancing both what they do best and enhancing elements that they don’t often show but still keeping it in their style and not what the boyz were doing or what “ the younger groups were doing” etc ( this is for the first 3 that were shown so far). Addition: just so you know they completely removed the budget with agreement from all companies due to complaints and everything and then I also agree with what u said about those stunts, next round performances cleared my worry about that for now tho I think but that’s me personally

Izak
>>58361869

I agree I guess I think if they had forced kingdom to be like queedom in terms of less concept focus it wouldn’t have worked, queendom could do that because they have an audience, kingdom doing that with no audience would have lacked so much energy, the concepts help keep the energy up that we lack from having no audience

Izak
>>58342650

I agree, people have focused way too much on trying to blame mnet for everything and dismissing valid criticisms by blaming mnet, mnet has faulted with some thing yes but that’s not why some groups didn’t do as well as others

Mesha ✌︎

I agree with u pd my top 3 were the zzz’s (1 atz) (2 tbz) (3 skz)

Mesha ✌︎

THE BOYZ killed it in ep 4 pd prepare yourself 🔥

Anonymous

i thought that skz' performance was the best because it had everything in it! the mashup chan made was flawless, they had a clear storyline, and they all performed live perfectly. it was the most cohesive performance in my opinion.

Puffin
>>58371654

Same for me, I also thought the lighting of the skz stage was iffy and made it even harder to follow. I liked the performance more the second time I watched it, but the mashup still doesn't hold up for me, and it's so much worse than either original song on its own.

Brooklyn

I agree with so many of your thoughts PD and honestly you gave words to some of what I was feeling but couldn’t quite pin point before watching your reaction. I also am very heavily involved in stan twitter and so a lot of the opinions I am seeing are HEAVILY biased and honestly just downright rude and illogical, so I appreciate having your point of view. A lot of people are complaining saying that the judges only rewarded props and budget. This could be true to an extent, but that’s where I think the quality of Ateez’s performance as a whole still shines through and why, even though I am an Atiny, from a general perspective they deserved first. Lots of hard core fans (particularly of the ZZZ’s) were like “Atz only won bc of the Kraken”. While it obviously added spectacle, the reason why I don’t agree that it helped them win is because their performance and story line would have been just as clean and legible without the balloon, and honestly without the majority of the props they had. This is because the storyline was clear, their choreography was creative and actively aided in the telling of the story, their live vocals were confident and energetic, and ultimately their musical foundation with their arrangement was the strongest. Every aspect was thought of. So yes, their was lots of visual spectacle involved, the raw elements of their performance were all there, strong, and could’ve stood alone and communicated the same message. I agree with that being said that there needs to be a budget cap. Especially now with the huge companies involved (uh hello YG, JYP, and Cube have hella money obviously) it is quickly going to turn into a show for these companies to one up each other. I could already feel it happening like you pointed out, but I’m afraid it might only evolve throughout the show. Overall I’m still iffy about how I feel about the show. Along with all your critiques my other main issue is the online voting system itself. Because you have to vote for three teams, there is now this added element of strategic voting which includes intentionally leaving groups out (mostly Atz because people hate them and Skz because they have the most followers on the voting platform), as well as pity voting where fandoms give more votes to groups they feel either aren’t a threat or that they feel bad for. This was seen in the first round of voting and also in this week’s episode. All around I think the show is messy and I just hope it doesn’t turn dangerous with the stunts and stuff.

Anonymous

While I agree there needs to be some sort of budget cap, the only thing that it limits is the roof of each artists creativity. Just because they utilise 5 million dollars doesn't mean the performance is worth 5 million dollars. A group that used 10 million may not be as good as the 1 million. This becomes really relevant in ep 4.

Harley

I agree with the criticisms that the new remixes don’t really make good songs as songs itself. When I judge a remix or cover I like to judge base on whether the song is good as well as a good performance. I think personally there’s too much “dead time” that’s led to only 3 performances per episode. Like when we only get 3 performances by the next week I completely forget their last 3 performances. I know people like the screen time they get of their favorite groups and but sometimes the content drags on especially when I as a viewer is mostly only here for the performances

Misha
>>58382949

They added the three votes to make it more fair for fandoms that aren't as involved in streaming/voting culture like SF9 and iKon but it backfired big time. I hate that it's 40% global voting. It's just a popularity concert because of this. ATEEZ 100% deserved full marks and first place. Sure their budget might have been bigger but they showed what no one else did, unique skills and a really concrete concept. I was amazed. I stan every group on Kingdom, but am mostly rooting for TBZ but after that performance... I don't even know haha

希文 王

A lot of people have left their thoughts, but I'll add mine as well. Basically agree with what you're saying, I wish they would focus a little more on the songs and not just mash them up, like literally, ATEEZ's was more like a remix that is worth relistening, and while BTOB and IKON's were a little disjointed, the songs were also still there. I have no qualms with how many props and stuff different groups have, but when it's more about crazy stunts and flashing lights, just concepts with not much story (as PD said, a beginning middle and end) it all becomes mashed together in my head. Something I really like about ATEEZ (which is also partially why they're the definite first place for me) is that this first round was "to the world", so you should be showing off what your identity as a group is to potential fans and viewers, and they really stuck to their pirate concept that's always been there since debut (mind you, I'm not an atiny, but even I know what their identity is), and to some extent that's also what Stray Kids, BTOB, and iKON did as well. To be honest I'm not familiar with SF9 so no comment, and I've only ever seen The Boyz title mvs and RTK performances so same goes to them, but it's also like I've watched them perform so many times, and I still have no idea what their identity is?

Anastasija

Honestly PD you hit the nail on the head with your thoughts on Kingdom I entirely agree with what you're saying. I have found Kingdom so far to be way less enjoyable than RTK because of the immense pressure and expectations of the groups to make these huge spectacle performances and seeing who can pull off more dangerous moves just to get that wow factor. Im so glad you mentioned ONF's Its Raining because that performance truly blew me away and it had no dangerous stunts/choreography and very little in terms of props/stage design and yet it was an enthralling performance nonetheless AND THE SONG REMIX ITSELF WAS INCREDIBLE. You're totally right that these groups seemed to have neglected the most important aspect and that is THE MUSIC. I'm hoping things will change in future rounds because I am a big fan of all 6 groups and i'd love to see what other kind of performances they show us.

Anonymous

I debated on whether to leave a comment or not since a lot of what I want to say are in other comments as well but I figure might as well leave a comment. I never even watch Queendom but I agree with your comment about kingdom being the worst of the three so far. I agree a lot of groups are going about it thinking they need to beat the boyz and nothing else and it makes no sense for that to happen! I am a huge SF9 fan (became a fantasy from their debut) and that performance while I think parts of it were great the camera work seemed a bit of a mess particularly when they came together as a group and Jaeyoon did that jump. I can’t even watch that part because I agree I think he landed wrong and he hurt himself and that’s too painful to watch (he’s my bias). The first round just left me disappointed. I continue to wonder if I should just watch the performances and not watch the show in it’s entirety...I am a multi-Stan as well so seeing any group on the bottom is hard for me because I think they all deserve to hear they did well.

M.C.

I completely agree with the dangerous stunt thing. I remember in episode 2 when the boyz were talking about how to continue topping themselves when they had already shown so much in RtK, New was worried that they'd have to keep upping the dangerous stunts. I was worried about that going in, but New saying it out loud made me worry for the other groups who hasn't experienced RtK. I was extremely worried for Jaeyoon this episode. I think they should have pulled the move during practice when he was failing multiple times, but also injuring himself or others while doing so. I appreciate the leader trying to help him out by suggesting they hold him as he does it. It upsets me that they didn't even shoot it well or up close like they did for others. The shot from the back looked like a behind the scenes shot and it shouldn't have been shown. I love a good concept, but everyone focusing on that instead of just putting on a great performance limited them. Ateez's felt natural because we know they're pirates, they've always been pirates, so it didn't come out of nowhere. Their story was also followable and concise. I really liked SF9's musical arrangement and the acting was great, but I couldn't tell you what was going on in the story. The Boyz were similar, I know it was based on Game of Thrones, but I've never seen it and wasn't following what was happening. The zombie part was easy to follow, but I was trying to figure out the hands for a lot of it. Going back to the danger thing, I was upset that Sunwoo had to get in the tank when he was scared, just for it not to be used at all. I know not everything can be used, but even Juyeon's scene was like 2 seconds long. Sunwoo is also scared of heights so making him hang by the rope although, It wasn't as high as the stairs in their checkmate performance didn't sit right with me after him being scared earlier. I really liked the moment with Juyeon and the sheet and the sad feeling the song gave, but I wished they had delivered more with the suffocating aspects of the song. I thought the water would be incorporated more and the fire as well to create that feeling. I kind of disagree about one thing you said about the budget . Although I feel like I'd be nice for them all to have similar budgets because some companies do have more expendable money and limitation does inspire creativity, I feel like the groups could then turn more to stunts to make themselves stand out more. I feel like Reveal was the best stage on RtK, but my favorite performance was It's Raining. I've gone back to watch that so many times since it aired. I remember at the end when they were walking slowly towards the camera, I thought they looked like legends. Their performance and my amazement was so great at the moment. They made It's Raining really fun and sound like themselves. I hope we get a round like that again. I like all of these groups, so seeing anyone at the bottom hurts. They switch songs next episode, and I'm interested to see how they will go about doing someone else's song, if they'll chang it completely or not.

Emi R.

Voting results that I calculated cause I like math 😂 Expert: 30 people x 3 votes = 90 votes 5000 points / 90 = 55.555 points per vote ATEEZ - 28 SKZ - 24 DBZ - 18 BTOB - 8 iKON - 6 SF9 - 6 Self: 6 teams x 3 votes = 18 votes 5000 points / 18 = 277.777 points per vote ATEEZ - 5 SKZ - 4 BTOB - 4 DBZ - 3 iKON - 2 SF9 - 0 If you multiply the number of votes I calculated by how much the vote is worth you’ll get the numbers they showed. But remember they’re repeating numbers so you need a calculator that’s capable of that or type as many as you can. Multiples of 10 divided by multiples of 3 will ALWAYS have hella repeating numbers 😉 I put a video on twitter explaining it if anyone’s interested https://twitter.com/emi_rahm/status/1383184280633929729?s=21

Anonymous

there's a rumor i saw that jinhwan dislocated his shoulder while rehearsing for the intro stage, and the choreographer stepped in to remove the choreo, so yeah, i reaaaaally don't want them to get hurt because of performances!! TT

Kei G

I absolutely agree about the stunt thing; choreography does NOT require stunts to be epic. I saw that SF9 member limping during rehearsals and was honestly hoping SOMEONE would tell him to call it off. If you watch closely, he actually messes up other parts of the dance, likely because of that injury. However, I'd like to point out here that yes Changbin notably stopped for breath during the perf. But PD, most of the other groups also have parts that are lipsynced, but most notably, IKON completely lipsynced the intro stage and mainly lipsycned this round 1 stage. I don't want to hate on them, but I do think that this has been glossed over by most people. The singular criticism I have of the Ateez stage is Jongho's high note. If you listen, he actually has to adjust his pitch pretty notably at every step, which I think made it jarring rather than impressive. I'd rather he do a more stable 3 step note than reach and strain for that 4th step. Otherwise, Ateez's stage was killer, ESPECIALLY their remix. In terms of the music, I definitely agree, none of these songs, bar Ateez, will go onto any playlist of mine. However, I don't think that's necessarily a bad thing. These songs are intended to be performance songs and have been remixed with that in mind, so it makes sense that musically they aren't made for anything else really. I think the best remedy for this is the next stage, where the groups are covering songs, because now it IS about the songs AND the performance. Also as an FYI, the cover songs will be released as studio versions, so the groups now HAVE to make a good song.

Kpop_Platypus

POTC is one of my favorite movies of all time, & Ateez went hard and pulled out all the stops.  인정.  Even so, SKZ was my personal favorite, for reasons I can't quite elucidate.  Maybe it's just that moment w/ Chan & the upside down dancer that stuck w/ me. 😯  I felt like SF9's would've been a phenomenal year-end performance, but didn't hold up for the likes of Kingdom.  It felt like they did a cool performance & a bit of a story thrown in, while others told a story THROUGH a cool performance. This is totally random, but since this is the most I've ever seen of Ikon, I've only just now decided on a bias: Jinhwan.  But you know what I realized as I've been watching?  He reminds me A LOT of Pentagon's Jinho (who is also my bias 🙂).  Not only in appearance, somewhat, but in their kind, quiet, practical demeanor & habits.  And now I really miss Jinho. 🥲

joe cooke

It makes me so happy how bobby just turned into a 8 year old kid when the kraken was shown and defeated

Rae
>>58439883

Hi Kathy! Hope you don't mind me commenting on your post. Want to start off by saying I totally agree with what you and PD said about the dangerous stunts and I actually thought I was the only one that noticed that the SF9 member messed up a bit after the stunt, probably because he got hurt. However, I mainly wanted to comment on your post just to provide a different perspective to some of the comments you made about some of the performances. I want to preface by saying that I do not stan any of these groups, and I wasn’t even familiar with some of them prior to Kingdom, and only started watching this show because of PD (although I did watch RTK when it first aired). I believe that you said you were quite disappointed in some performances for the lip-syncing, particularly on the face-to-face performances. If I'm not mistaken, in the first face-to-face performance, the artists were given the freedom to do whatever they wanted, some groups chose to focus on dancing while others chose to strictly stick to singing. You mentioned iKON lip-synced and their dance was forgettable and how it was borderline disrespectful to a group such as BTOB who are clearly singing live. While I do agree with the dance being somewhat forgettable, I think that it is also a bit unfair to judge the group in that way. We could just as easily apply that same logic to BTOB and say it was somewhat disrespectful of BTOB to not even attempt to dance when all the other groups prepared a dance routine. If I’m not mistaken, I saw an iKON member say how they prepared a dance performance and focused strictly on dancing rather than singing. At the end of the day, it's kpop, and the vast majority (if not all) of these groups lip-sync at one point or another. In this show, I haven’t really seen anyone outside of BTOB and ATEEZ live singing. Sure, the rappers for most groups do rap live, but for the most part, all groups are lip-syncing, some a lot more obvious than others, but at the end of the day they all have a backing track and lip-syncing to some extent. However, I think there is nothing wrong with that either, most of those groups are preparing for dance-heavy performances and it is totally understandable they can’t do both properly to the full extent, and they decide to give up some things in order to gain others in terms of their performance. Finally, I think this when this show becomes extremely unfair and open to different interpretations. All these groups are given a theme each week, but no guidelines, so every group interprets the theme in a different way and takes their performances in a completely different direction. The problem with this is that, with no guidelines to rate the performances by, it really does boil down to a matter of personal preferences. The show is neither a dance nor a singing competition, but rather a performance competition, and we see that all these groups have completely different approaches to a great performance; some focus on dance, others on singing, others on concepts, and some just on having fun; and all of the performances are great and that's what makes every one of them unique and there is something for everyone to enjoy. I hope you do not take my message in the wrong way and hope I didn’t come across badly in any way, I am trying just to have a discussion on this matter, and maybe offer a different perspective? Maybe you don't even care about any of what I had to say and that's okay too haha (in that case my apologies for the long comment), but I just thought it would be interesting to have a more thorough discussion with another performer such as yourself. I hope you are having a lovely day and I would love to hear your thoughts, but regardless thank you for reading, and sorry this was WAY too long.

Bryn

having seen the results of the second stage, i'm wondering if the zero points in self eval doesn't necessarily reflect no one ranked sf9 in their top three. i'm thinking it's more about the percentage of first, second, and third place choices, so even if sf9 got a third place vote for a group or two, it wouldn't be enough mathematically to earn points. i'm not sure if that makes sense, but yeah, after seeing the results of the second stage, i find it hard to believe there wouldn't be a single person who placed that group somewhere in the top three. i might have just confused things more. i'll stop here xD

christine cheung

I agreed with what PD has mentioned. Their stages are genuinely great but most songs can only be considered as cool background music but not a "complete'' song. Maybe they see TBZ's performances as a way to success (since they won in RTK)? And my issue with TBZ is always on their music. Am I impressed with the whole stage? Yes. Am I impress with the music itself? Not sure. ONF and OMG won my heart with their arrangement and ability to sing though both of them didn't won in the show. They showed us the stages that only works on them and brings out their own color, so they both gained popularity after these shows. And that is what I want to see on groups in Kingdom. I feel sorry for them but I prefer RTK or Queendom than Kingdom in terms of variety of styles. Most groups look angry and stressed here... and it makes me question whether they really enjoy these stages or not. My conspiracy is that Mnet intentionally mislead companies and made them went for dangerous stuff becos they can get more views and dramas. And in terms of intensity, no one can win over Ateez, right? So Ateez have temporarily stayed at the top at this point. (and the song is also great) My point is that they should put effort into directions that suits them and unleash their true power -- show me the charisma that make a group stand out, the ability to change up the atmosphere, or just the joyous of performing on stage.

Catrin
>>58786251

You can actually work out the number of votes each team got based on the points ratio. For round 1: Ateez - 5 votes Stray Kids - 4 votes BtoB - 4 votes The Boyz - 3 votes iKON - 2 votes SF9 - 0 votes

Phani

Thank you for mentioning your worries about the groups going too hard and hurting themselves. I wonder if these type of performances will affect EOY performances going forward. This is just my theory but I think Jaeyoon maybe hurt himself landing/was grimacing and they didn’t zoom in bc him hurting himself wasn’t a good “storyline” for the show

Meruka Hinaru

I just had a funny realization, in order for you to rank high in Kingdom, your group name must finish in 즈 hahaha

Anonymous

I would spend all day watching your reactions, you can read my mind and turn my thoughts into words wtf thank you ily

Anonymous

I was actually wondering why I liked the performances in rtk more than in kingdom and what you said made a lot of sense. I already felt that way about the props and the stunts but damn they really did focus on that way to much and you're right, they should've stuck with a lower budget. Also, the music didn't really hit it for me, especially with all the dance breaks and stuff it seemed kinda uncreative at some point. The stunt thing was actually something that really really bothered me in I-land. From what I understood the trainees there had to learn and perform those stunts in like a week without any assistance or experience in stunts, like come on, you really expect a bunch of teens who haven't even debuted yet and have next to no actual stage experience to learn this by themselves with people they barely know?? I just think that's bs and someone seriously could've gotten hurt... Same with the moving stage and someone /did/ actually get injured because of it (at least that's what I heard). Well, my point is I hope they had some actual professionals to help them on rtk and really only did it when they were confident and weren't pressured into it (even though I sadly doubt it). (Also, I know I'm late af and nobody will probably read this but I just had to share xD)

Anonymous

I totally agree with what you said about stunts, I feel performances are becoming only about sports overtaking. Kingdom should be an artistic competition before a sportive competition... They are singers and artists before being sportmen.

azi

this is a year late lmfao, but i agree with everything you said. I honestly got so sick of all the techno, edm music that i was drawn to btob because they kept everything relatively simple. when i tried remembering the other groups performances throughout the whole show, it sort of all blurred into one

Court V

I totally agree on most everything you said PD. Ateez definitely deserved the top spot because they had it all, and they were the closest to the concept they were supposed to do. One of the only critiques I have is that this show is basically a popularity contest rather than actual performance and talent which is shown in the global voting. Of course people will vote for who they Stan no matter who actually did better unfortunately, so of course the groups with the bigger fandoms will win the global voting, basically making all the other criteria pointless.