A Conversation With Wichannoi and Dieselnoi: Ultimate Legends | Bonus (Patreon)

Bonus material, be sure to turn on English subtitles: This is something new and really cool that we're able to do through your support, using resources from patrons for documentary projects like this. Honestly, there is nothing like this anywhere on the internet. We went to see Wichannoi at his beverage distribution company in Bangkok, chaperoned by Dieselnoi himself. For some background, Wichannoi is one of the greatest fighters of all time. He's from the Silver Age of Muay Thai, but fought into the early Golden Age and when we ask the best fighters from the Golden Age to name their "Top 5, All-Time Greatest Yodmuay," Wichannoi tops that list, over and over again. (Dieselnoi is consistently in the top 3 as well.) He's the hero's hero. And he fought Dieselnoi three times, winning the first two fights. Dieselnoi adores him. Before I ever met Wichannoi, I asked Dieselnoi who he thought was the best and he didn't hesitate at all to say Wichannoi. He also has advised me and taught me according to Wichannoi's style on numerous occasions; I think Dieselnoi learned a great deal from fighting him. 

 Go to the full conversation on YouTube here, be sure to turn on English subtitles 

We actually went to meet Wichannoi in order to film with him for the Muay Thai Library, to preserve his techniques and get his persona and character on film. As it turned out, something was lost in the communication between him and Dieselnoi, setting up the session, and Wichannoi wasn't into that, so we just let the camera role. This isn't a formal interview. We actually expected that we were at some point to go and do a Library session, but what came out of it was unique and awesome in its own right. Wichannoi had fought for a long time, active for somewhere around two decades and was competitive against much bigger and much younger fighters far into his career. But he's also 71 years old in this video and many, many decades removed from training or teaching Muay Thai. So, the Library entry kind of went sideways, but we ended up getting a great deal of discussion of his technique, how he trained, how he strategized and thought about fighting, as well as his personality as he was talking with me and Dieselnoi. It's wonderful, really. It's also incredible to see the interaction between Dieselnoi and Wichannoi, talking about their fights together and some about contemporary scoring and judging. It's a glimpse into how the greatest fighters from the greatest era think about Muay Thai, both back in their day and now. And you get to see them talking about it, rather than just have someone tell you what they said.

Some of the things talked about are: a fight that Dieselnoi and Wichannoi had recently watched on TV and completely disagreed with the decision. They talk about what's changed in scoring, as well as corruption in refereeing. Dieselnoi alludes to how the success of Muay Thai on a global level has actually brought about regulations in Thailand that come from outside of the Muay Thai community and might, indeed, be detrimental to the future of Thailand's Muay Thai. They talk about Wichannoi's strategies for handling all different styles of Muay, as well as how one should train in order to prepare for any opponent. Dieselnoi and Wichannoi talk about each other as fighters, as well as bringing up points about each other as opponents when they fought each other. I ask about Muay Thai fighters who became Western Boxers with success and they talk about this a little bit, as well as a few comments on the contemporary International Superstars, Buakaw and Saenchai.

There's a lot to be pulled out of this discussion and maybe it's something I can write about. It's a natural conversation in the video, so there are references and broader discussions that can be brought out of it, but even just seeing these two legends go back and forth is pretty incredible to me. If Ali and Frazer were having a chat, you'd pull your jaw up off of the table and listen. That's what this felt like for me, even though I got lost a few times due to language barriers. I love how Dieselnoi keeps trying to get me to ask Wichannoi questions that I've asked Dieselnoi, totally like my dad saying, "go ahead and ask your great uncle, ask him about the service." It's very sweet, and Dieselnoi admits that he's learned a great deal from Wichannoi, like a mentor... who he also fought.

Watch

Go to the full conversation on YouTube here, be sure to turn on English subtitles

Understanding Why Wichannoi Was So Great

To really get the best picture of the kind of fighter Wichannoi was, and again many legends of the sport consider him the greatest (see that them say that here), I strongly recommend you read Ryan Wagner's film study article on him at the Fight Site:

go to Vicharnnoi Porntawee: Legacy of the Immortal Boxer 

He does an incredible job of bringing to life his beautiful fighting strategy, his use of stinging low kick attacks from the outside, and his explosive combinations, using GIFs and short video clips. You will understand even better what Dieselnoi describes in the conversation, enriching it. This is worth the study.

The Greatest of the Greats

you can see a high res, zoomable version of this photo here 

The entire 123 Greatest book is put on the Patreon supported Roundtable Forum, you can go to Wichannoi's entry here. And browse other legends of his era, and others. Each entry has an English language portion. Wichannoi's entry looks like this:

One of the things we are doing in these efforts is to make sure the excellence of the past does not fad from memory. We do have English language curators highlighting fighters whose video have survived, but our knowledge is passing through a very small keyhole. It is for this reason that I started asking legends themselves who THEY thought were the best of the best, just so we could hear from the men who shared the ring with greatness saw first hand. Please check out the growing playlist of legends picking their top five:

What surprise many English language fans, including myself, was how many times Wichannoi was at the top of many of these lists. Watch the 5 Greatest Playlist here.

You can also watch Dieselnoi''s list here.

This is all part of a new dimension of the Preserve The Legacy project. This conversation between Dieselnoi and Wichannoi is made public, because this is serious history, and everyone should be able to watch it. But translation projects like this are difficult and can be expensive. In particular, Dieselnoi's Thai can be hard to translate - in fact the subtitles in the conversation are open to community improvement, so if you know Thai and feel like you can improve them in part please do! (or, if you are fluent in both Thai and another language, please consider submitting another language translation too!). 

We now are working to translate much more material, so Thais can speak more for themselves. This is all possible through your support.

This session is a bonus, the regular next Muay Thai entry in the Library, probably with Kru Manop, should be up in a week!

Be sure to watch the Dieselnoi sessions in the Library:

#48 Dieselnoi Chor. Thanasukarn - Jam Session (80 min) watch it here  

#30 Dieselnoi Chor Thanasukarn 2 - Muay Khao Craft  (42 min) watch it here  

#3 Dieselnoi  Chor Thanasukarn  - The King of Knees (54 min) - watch it here 

#76 Dieselnoi Chor Thanasukarn 4 - How to Fight Tall (69 min) watch it here  

Chatchai Sasakul was also discussed in this conversation:

 #64 Chatchai Sasakul - Elements of Boxing (72 min) watch it here  

 #14 Chatchai Sasakul - Perfecting Hands (106 min) watch it here  

 Bonus Session 5: Chatchai Sasakul Southpaw Hands | 52 min - watch it here  

Browse the entire Library here 

Some Have Asked for the Transcript of Past Translation Work

Go to the full conversation on YouTube here, be sure to turn on English subtitles 

Here is just the raw text file of the English translation, if anyone wants to skim through it. The translation is still under revision and improvement so may not reflect this exact text:

0:04:41.970,0:04:46.168

[talking about a fight seen recently on TV] the odds were "38 40" then grabbed and threw him once and won

0:04:46.502,0:04:48.580

How did they come to that decision?

Was it right?

0:04:48.873,0:04:51.036

It was not loss due to skill.

It was loss due to energy.

0:04:52.482,0:04:54.796

- Not good

- Not good

0:04:56.642,0:05:00.905

I watched it and it was wrong.

0:05:02.861,0:05:04.674

I got it wrong too. [had it for the other guy]

0:05:05.296,0:05:09.267

He landed kicks and knees, but then fell and was done.

0:05:09.300,0:05:16.765

That blue side kicked, but then fell one time and lost. I don't understand.

0:05:17.786,0:05:19.548

Referee judged that way.

0:05:20.130,0:05:22.744

- They judged it a loss.

- Yes

0:05:22.968,0:05:25.463

Nothing can be done.  Do you know why?

0:05:25.842,0:05:29.128

Look at the new generation. If you argue

with them, they will mess with you.

0:05:29.224,0:05:30.478

I want to hit them with a table.

0:05:30.948,0:05:32.370

You can't even say a word.

0:05:33.404,0:05:37.035

You just fought. Did you cheat?

0:05:37.430,0:05:42.702

Last week, Faasatan from Kru Toy.

0:05:43.037,0:05:47.147

Finished fight at 3:1 But didn't win.

Lost for sure. Lost by far.

0:05:47.490,0:05:50.223

Judges gave it to blue.

The audience started shouting

0:05:50.673,0:05:56.849

I asked him [red?], "What happened?" The fighter said

his opponent didn't do anything in 4 rounds.

0:05:57.329,0:05:59.860

And he didn't win it in Round 5.

0:06:00.272,0:06:03.719

Reports came out about this fight.

0:06:03.793,0:06:06.541

The report said the odds were 2:1

0:06:06.618,0:06:09.322

I wanted to ask the judges "are you

sure you actually watched the match?"

0:06:11.625,0:06:13.389

I don't understand why

it turned out like this.

0:06:13.627,0:06:18.813

If, for example, in round 5 you throw the opponent

down once or twice, and you win just for that

0:06:18.972,0:06:20.904

Then what comes next, right?

0:06:21.128,0:06:23.148

How could Muay Thai and a fighter grow?

0:06:24.638,0:06:27.882

It is not enjoyable to watch, it's difficult.

0:06:28.372,0:06:29.488

But what can you do?

0:06:29.668,0:06:31.172

Nowadays things have changed.

0:06:31.750,0:06:39.250

Ask Pi Cheep [Wichannoi] about Muay Thai in the past.

How were the gloves? Small?

0:06:39.606,0:06:41.860

- In the past. Small.

- Small?

0:06:42.296,0:06:43.653

They were small in the past, weren't they?

0:06:43.925,0:06:46.065

Nobody cared.

0:06:46.339,0:06:50.685

But nowadays, did you notice why

authorities pay attention to Muay Thai?

0:06:50.926,0:06:53.581

Don't forget that Muay Thai

has been accepted worldwide.

0:06:53.589,0:06:54.845

Money has been coming in.

0:06:55.154,0:06:59.993

Officials got involved.

They have no idea about Muay Thai.

0:07:01.028,0:07:02.768

They start to set rules, for example

forbidding children to fight.

0:07:03.702,0:07:05.414

These people want to do good things.

0:07:05.874,0:07:08.236

Yes want to do good things but you

have to look at their backgrounds.

0:07:08.236,0:07:10.024

- yes, consider their backgrounds.

 - right?

0:07:10.214,0:07:12.684

What is the state of things now?

0:07:12.965,0:07:15.945

Westerners have good bodies, right?

0:07:16.187,0:07:17.946

But they start fighting

when they are adults.

0:07:17.971,0:07:19.635

If we don't fight from a young age, we will lose Muay Thai.

0:07:20.087,0:07:22.751

- We won't be able to compete. Am I right?

- Right.

0:07:22.943,0:07:26.418

How about banning children from fighting?

What would you expect?

0:07:27.155,0:07:31.469

When another country invites a Thai to fight

in their country, they pay for everything.

0:07:31.469,0:07:33.472

They [Thais] like it, you see?

0:07:33.957,0:07:35.947

They benefit from this kind of event.

0:07:35.947,0:07:39.940

Small things.

There are some issues. [I believe Dieselnoi is saying that Thais will take disadvantages to travel for fights...]

0:07:40.400,0:07:47.079

When in the clinch, you can kick the leg like this. At close range.

0:07:47.079,0:07:49.710

Here here. Listen. I told her about this.

0:07:49.895,0:07:52.834

I told her...

0:07:53.144,0:07:55.493

For Muay Khao,

the moment that the opponent is close...

0:07:55.493,0:08:00.423

You know what Pi Cheep

did, he kicked [low] like this.

0:08:00.423,0:08:02.548

Does it hurt? Yes it does.

0:08:02.946,0:08:05.527

Yes it hurts. But here...

0:08:05.527,0:08:07.927

Pi Cheep would...

When Pi Cheep fought, he would...

0:08:10.038,0:08:11.420

Right there, very fast.

0:08:11.420,0:08:16.681

When I watch tape of Wichannoi now.

You kicked legs a lot, right?

0:08:19.490,0:08:23.795

When your opponent is left handed,

kick here, right?

0:08:24.311,0:08:28.012

Sirimongkol was like that [left handed].

0:08:28.012,0:08:31.297

What about your fight with Khunpon?

0:08:33.742,0:08:40.962

- She asked how to fight against Muay Khao, and tall opponents?

- Yes

0:08:44.463,0:08:45.889

I told her the technique.

0:08:45.889,0:08:53.785

You fought for a long time,

you changed your technique. right?

0:08:53.785,0:08:57.694

I told her techniques would change.

0:08:58.920,0:09:02.600

Yes techniques have to

change, as to the situation.

0:09:03.570,0:09:07.041

For example,

if you fight against Muay Khao.

0:09:07.041,0:09:13.206

Or Femeu, kickers, punches, etc.

You have to adapt.

0:09:13.206,0:09:18.607

So we have to adjust our timing.

0:09:18.607,0:09:22.681

Take for example knee fighting.

How do we handle it?

0:09:22.681,0:09:24.419

If it's a Muay Khao opponent,

we have to clinch a lot.

0:09:24.419,0:09:30.232

You have to have a strong body to take strikes and

move in and out. That's vs Muay Khao.

0:09:30.232,0:09:35.731

For punchers,

you need a high and strong guard.

0:09:35.731,0:09:38.867

For kickers,

you need to guard, teep, etc.

0:09:39.280,0:09:43.580

- These are the steps.

- What did you like the best?

0:09:43.580,0:09:50.020

- Do I like what?

- You mean what technique he likes?

0:09:50.700,0:09:55.400

-For himself, his own preference. Did you like to punch, femeu, what did you like best?

0:10:00.180,0:10:01.820

You mean for Pi Cheep?

0:10:02.627,0:10:03.818

He could use many techniques.

0:10:03.818,0:10:10.206

He explained in his day, if his opponent was a puncher, he would punch also.

0:10:10.206,0:10:14.577

Then if people prefer kicking, he would kick also.

0:10:15.579,0:10:18.287

But what did he do the best? Punching in combinations

0:10:18.288,0:10:19.405

Combination punches.

0:10:20.451,0:10:22.555

You could depend on this, right?

0:10:22.555,0:10:26.083

His best technique was punching in sets.

0:10:26.083,0:10:30.328

When he fought, how could he have such a long career?

0:10:30.328,0:10:35.934

He studied the opponent, read the crowd

and saw what techniques fans liked.

0:10:35.934,0:10:43.616

In Thailand, kicking the leg doesn't really score, right? It's more to disturb the opponent's composure?

0:10:44.537,0:10:51.561

Points can given overall for

a fighter's style and techniques. So yes, composure [ruup][ is part of it].

0:10:51.561,0:10:57.240

For example, we kick the

opponent's leg to stop his weapons.

0:10:57.240,0:11:02.198

The opponent is good at kicking. But you

stop him. And he can't kick you.

0:11:02.198,0:11:07.339

We interrupt his timing and rhythm.

Judges can see who is controlling whom.

0:11:07.707,0:11:12.676

If the opponent can't use his weapons,

judges will see this.

0:11:12.676,0:11:17.967

For Muay Khao, you have to be

close, clinch and grab the neck.

0:11:18.189,0:11:22.110

If you can't grab the neck,

but he grabs your neck...

0:11:22.110,0:11:26.485

you have to control the arms, reach one hand between his arms

to push the opponent's jaw.

0:11:26.485,0:11:30.643

And use the other hand around the outside.

When he tries to knee, you time him and you push him back.

0:11:30.643,0:11:31.989

He will bounch off.

0:11:33.039,0:11:37.621

This is the right way to handle

the opponent's technique.

0:11:37.991,0:11:41.382

For knee fighters, before he reaches you,

0:11:42.419,0:11:48.507

he will have to take your weapons as he tries to come in, 

like teeps, kicks, punches.

0:11:49.270,0:11:52.240

If he reaches you but still can't hit

you, what's going to happen?

0:11:52.240,0:11:55.077

If he is hit on his way in, but when he reaches

you he still can't knee... it's over, [he can't score].

0:11:57.450,0:12:02.233

These are general guidelines.

0:12:02.233,0:12:09.148

For Muay Deen [kickers],

we have to have good eyes to see their movement and be quick.

0:12:09.148,0:12:12.531

Step back, block,

teep to cut off their weapons

0:12:12.531,0:12:16.040

and time our counters to fight back.

0:12:16.040,0:12:19.695

It will turn the fight to

our advantage to handle a kicker like this.

0:12:19.695,0:12:26.595

When we are going to fight,

it's not only what you have, what you're good at.

0:12:26.595,0:12:29.928

We have to study the opponent

and prepare for how to defend and handle their skills.

0:12:30.251,0:12:35.359

In training, focus on how to deal

with his weapons and style.

0:12:35.359,0:12:40.454

How to defend. How to strike.

This is key.

0:12:42.095,0:12:48.673

If both fighters have strong hands,

like when you fought Sirimonkol, he had lots of KOs.

0:12:48.673,0:12:52.706

If both have heavy hands, you switch to

leg kicks and teeps?

0:12:53.446,0:12:54.893

You handle each style accordingly.

0:12:54.893,0:12:58.185

Pi Cheep would observe the

opponent's styles and techniques.

0:12:58.185,0:13:00.927

To fight with Muay Khao, he would

0:13:00.952,0:13:03.389

see how the opponent knees.

And then plan how to defend.

0:13:04.107,0:13:07.299

So it depends on the opponent.

0:13:07.299,0:13:11.497

It's not just to go out

there and fight. No.

0:13:11.497,0:13:14.523

Whom will you fight with? What's his style?

Is he right handed? How does he fight?

0:13:14.523,0:13:15.958

He likes to use punches.

Look at how he punches.

0:13:21.064,0:13:26.236

When I fought with Pi Cheep,

I took a lot of teeps.

0:13:26.236,0:13:28.416

It was like fighting and

teaching at the same time.

0:13:30.341,0:13:32.727

This kind of fighter doesn't exist today.

0:13:32.727,0:13:38.133

I think.  Like last time I fought with Wichannoi.

0:13:38.133,0:13:39.930

I kept advancing. I lost.

0:13:39.930,0:13:41.853

He used a lot of kicks and teeps.

0:13:41.853,0:13:46.116

He was older already. He was slow.

0:13:46.116,0:13:53.069

Then I punched him and he slumped.

0:13:53.069,0:13:57.400

You know why? He was so clever.

He was provoking me to keep coming.

0:13:57.400,0:14:04.037

He tricked me to move in closer.

When I moved in, I got hit and was done.

0:14:07.873,0:14:10.608

The older generation had good strategy.

0:14:11.007,0:14:15.203

Focus. He was very good at

focus and concentration.

0:14:15.203,0:14:20.600

Pi Cheep, do you remember our

first fight at Rajadamnern? It was very entertaining.

0:14:20.600,0:14:23.802

Very entertaining. It was very entertaining every

time I fought with Pi Cheep.

0:14:23.802,0:14:26.723

In Round 5, Pi Cheep just stayed there.

0:14:26.723,0:14:29.467

I didn't move in, either.  I just held my ground.

0:14:29.467,0:14:31.936

Then I just looked at him

and wondered what he would do.

0:14:31.936,0:14:35.292

Suddenly he rushed in and attacked me.

0:14:35.292,0:14:38.376

Do you know what I got from that day?

0:14:38.376,0:14:44.275

First, focus only on the present when in the ring.

I have to make my own decisions.

0:14:44.402,0:14:46.739

Second, how to handle unexpected events.

0:14:48.128,0:14:52.085

Experience. I didn't understand

the word "experience".

0:14:52.085,0:14:55.303

I thought it means the number of

years in fighting. But I didn't know.

0:14:55.303,0:14:57.201

I knew right away that day.

0:14:58.195,0:15:01.042

I knew right away this is "experience".

And concentration.

0:15:01.798,0:15:05.354

Another thing is mentality.

0:15:05.810,0:15:11.892

Pi Cheep, when you fought, did you

care about anyone outside the ring?

0:15:12.628,0:15:16.085

Ask him.

0:15:16.085,0:15:17.465

Do you understand?

0:15:18.022,0:15:23.698

I asked "Pi Cheep, when you got into the ring, did you think about other people?"

0:15:23.698,0:15:26.964

He said no. Only your opponent.

0:15:27.755,0:15:29.634

You listen to the trainer only

when you go back to the corner.

0:15:29.634,0:15:30.634

Go ahead, ask him.

0:15:32.355,0:15:34.916

I asked him for you.

0:15:34.916,0:15:37.438

In the ring,

he didn't think about other people.

0:15:37.438,0:15:41.620

Focus only on the opponent. What is the

opponent going to do? How can I defend?

0:15:42.639,0:15:43.608

You don't have to listen to anybody else.

0:15:43.608,0:15:46.820

Don't pay attention. Only listen to the

trainer when you go back to the corner. [During the rounds it's all up to you]

0:15:47.140,0:15:48.620

That's him.

0:15:49.775,0:15:56.489

Back in the day, there weren't highlights or tape of opponents.

You had to go to see them fight, right?

0:15:56.489,0:16:01.774

You listen to the cornerman and

make your own adjustments, right?

0:16:01.774,0:16:06.899

When you went to watch fights, what kind of fighter did you like?

0:16:06.899,0:16:09.834

- What kind of fighter do you like?

- What kind of fighter do I like?

0:16:09.834,0:16:11.633

- you

- me?

0:16:11.633,0:16:14.285

I like an all-round style.

0:16:14.285,0:16:16.087

Femeu is fun to watch?

0:16:16.087,0:16:18.037

General style, defend here and there.

0:16:18.299,0:16:22.814

Move in, defend, make adjustments and change up.

0:16:22.814,0:16:27.338

Who had the best skills back in the days?

0:16:27.338,0:16:29.828

Many people.

0:16:29.828,0:16:32.287

Sylvie, he doesn't know how to answer this question.

0:16:32.287,0:16:35.315

Because westerners don't know.

0:16:35.315,0:16:38.712

They only know Buakaw, Saenchai.

They don't know.

0:16:38.712,0:16:42.048

Now they know Samart, but he...

0:16:42.048,0:16:47.185

They don't know the fighters from before. Westerners think Buakaw is Yodmuay.

0:16:48.286,0:16:50.535

Really.  They don't know older fighters.

0:16:50.535,0:16:57.700

In the past, no TV. People had to go to

see the fights or read the newspaper.

0:16:57.700,0:17:02.773

But when you went to see fights live, you thought everyone was entertaining, or?

0:17:02.773,0:17:08.856

Was there anyone you watched and then when you went back to training at the gym you took ideas from them?

0:17:11.864,0:17:14.976

Ask Pi Cheep if Buakaw is good.

0:17:15.647,0:17:20.037

You want to know, right? Ask him.

He will answer. Go ahead.

0:17:20.470,0:17:24.463

Buakao has skill and timing.

0:17:24.891,0:17:30.756

But Thai audiences didn't have great

 confidence in him [won't bet on him].

0:17:30.756,0:17:34.570

He didn't have stand out skills. Nothing impressive.

0:17:34.570,0:17:39.041

He can't fight with Thais anymore.

Japan is ok. He could win.

0:17:39.041,0:17:46.678

And Saenchai is still very good but

fights with weaker opponents.

0:17:49.175,0:17:52.787

Saenchai has advantages [now], so that people will watch.

0:17:53.203,0:17:58.111

He doesn't have heavy weapons,

but he can show off the art.

0:17:58.111,0:18:01.621

Nothing.  He only avades and dances.

0:18:01.621,0:18:04.854

I watch and it makes me sleepy.

0:18:04.854,0:18:08.386

No powerful weapons.

0:18:08.386,0:18:14.602

But he has good skills and strategies. Very good.

0:18:14.602,0:18:19.598

He is a brilliant outside fighter.

Very good skill.

0:18:19.598,0:18:24.931

- Scoring systems now are different from before, right?

- Yes, a lot has changed.

0:18:25.913,0:18:31.936

Scoring back in the day, how did they see the skills, what did gamblers look for?

0:18:31.936,0:18:37.044

They looked if a fighter had heavy

weapons, if they struck at the right spots.

0:18:37.044,0:18:39.896

Both good defense and attacks in the exchanges,

0:18:39.896,0:18:45.131

defend and strike.

That's how they decided who was good.

0:18:47.786,0:18:54.427

That was the past.  Today is only strength.

Only fall on top. That's good enough.

0:18:57.503,0:19:06.108

And today...that one was 3:1.

Just hit like this [barely slaps Sylvie]. And that was enough.

0:19:06.965,0:19:08.661

I asked the judges!

0:19:08.661,0:19:10.972

I asked the judge, I said let me ask you something:

0:19:10.972,0:19:14.691

Warnings affect points a lot, right?

0:19:14.691,0:19:17.960

He said "you know Muay Thai".

0:19:17.960,0:19:21.939

I asked now red is 5:1 or 3:1.

0:19:21.939,0:19:27.971

then red broke the rules,

he grabbed the ropes.

0:19:27.971,0:19:31.761

The referee warned him not to grab the ropes.

0:19:31.761,0:19:32.761

from 3:1 becomes equal.

0:19:34.118,0:19:37.982

To get ahead 3:1, you have to

strike at the right spots [for high scores].

0:19:37.982,0:19:42.364

Then you remove red's score [through penalty].

It's always this way. [a ref controls the score]

0:19:42.364,0:19:45.593

I said I saw this happen in many fights.

0:19:45.593,0:19:46.593

He just walked away.

0:19:47.970,0:19:49.979

You know?  I think...

0:19:51.274,0:19:56.385

this referee who gave the warning was close

to someone with authority.

0:19:56.385,0:19:58.494

If I warn [as a referee], your points are gone.

So if a powerful gambler is losing they don't have to pay.

0:19:58.494,0:20:01.417

If you get a warning, your points are gone.

It's difficult to win.

0:20:02.369,0:20:04.710

The gambling price increases.

0:20:04.710,0:20:09.003

If you judge in this way, it's not good.

If you want to cut him off, just do it.

0:20:09.003,0:20:12.193

Right?  This is very bad in the Muay Thai world.

0:20:12.603,0:20:15.170

Referees and judges only want money.

0:20:17.235,0:20:19.243

Is it right what I said?

0:20:20.092,0:20:23.195

This is the bad thing for the Muay Thai community.

0:20:24.053,0:20:31.528

It makes it so the Muay Thai or boxing

community cannot progress.

0:20:31.528,0:20:34.001

People lose faith.

0:20:34.001,0:20:36.984

Back in our day, we really competed.

0:20:39.360,0:20:42.881

It's not the same at all anymore.

0:20:44.660,0:20:53.079

Now you go watch a fight... In the past,

the opponent teeped and you took it.

0:20:53.079,0:20:54.858

You got teeped, you got hit here [in the groin] and fought on.

0:20:54.858,0:20:58.209

These days, they get teeped and it's all...

[acting like they can't continue from pain]

0:20:58.209,0:21:03.134

- No, they act like they can't be touched.

- This is from foreigners.  This is "farang style."

0:21:03.134,0:21:05.770

For foreigners [if hit in the groin],  the fight stops for 5 minutes!

0:21:07.020,0:21:14.721

I was a referee, if a fighter got hit and didn't keep moving, I'd start counting him.

0:21:14.721,0:21:22.133

Once he was hit really hard, Pi Cheep.

He survived.

0:21:23.915,0:21:28.264

No. He was hit like this, it wasn't forbidden before. [to knee the cup directly]

0:21:28.264,0:21:30.400

Ask him about it!

0:21:30.400,0:21:35.746

If today fighters are hit the way he was

hit, they will fall down. They are cowards.

0:21:36.395,0:21:37.609

Doesn't it hurt your own knee to hit the cup?

0:21:37.609,0:21:41.031

- It doesn't hurt.

- Really, the cup is steel right?

0:21:41.031,0:21:45.378

- Hit here

- oh the edge of it

0:21:45.378,0:21:49.646

In the past, we'd take hard strikes there and we'd take it.

Nowadays, it barely touches and they're like...

0:21:49.646,0:21:54.014

In the past we hit hard. Almost died.

Pi Cheep, you took some hard ones, right?

0:21:54.014,0:21:56.436

- Many people did

- Yes, many people

0:21:57.290,0:22:04.049

I got hit a lot, mostly because

I was Muay Mat [puncher].

0:22:04.049,0:22:07.295

I had to take shots to get in.

0:22:08.610,0:22:17.579

To defend against punchers,

you use long arms to protect yourself.

0:22:18.639,0:22:24.061

To defend against punching. you need good eyes.

When the opponent moves...

0:22:24.061,0:22:29.152

jab, guard, grab.

When they come close, grab the neck to lock.

0:22:34.620,0:22:39.580

In the past, it was easy for Thai fighters to

move to Western style boxing.

0:22:39.580,0:22:41.331

But now there aren't many, right?

0:22:41.331,0:22:43.115

What do you mean?

0:22:43.115,0:22:46.042

Many people started with Muay Thai.

Then became

0:22:46.067,0:22:50.480

World Champion in

Western style boxing.

0:22:50.480,0:22:57.276

They didn't need a big transition, like Sagat's 3rd Western Boxing fight was for World Champion.

0:22:57.276,0:23:00.883

It was possible.  But I don't see this now.

0:23:02.115,0:23:03.490

Have some [fruit put on the table].

0:23:03.490,0:23:10.956

These questions. Thai fighters mostly

don't train international style.

0:23:10.956,0:23:13.630

Only Chatchai [Sasakul], right?

0:23:13.630,0:23:17.660

Chatchai was the only one who

changed to only Western Boxing, right?

0:23:17.660,0:23:22.931

Chatchai and Pon [Weerapol]

0:23:22.931,0:23:26.824

Not many people focused on

Western style boxing.

0:23:26.824,0:23:30.981

Nowadays they start from Muay Thai.

0:23:30.981,0:23:37.430

Somrak, Samson Isaan, Sirimongkol

0:23:37.430,0:23:40.698

They started from Muay Thai.

0:23:48.700,0:23:52.414

Sometimes they got to be world champion.

Not bad at all.

0:23:52.414,0:23:54.976

They are heavier weight classes.

0:23:54.976,0:23:58.982

They jab like a horse's kick.

0:23:58.982,0:24:01.568

I got an eye injury from that [fighting against boxers].

0:24:02.377,0:24:05.578

I got eye injury.

I didn't dodge away from the punch.

0:24:05.578,0:24:07.156

It was an accident, you see?

0:24:07.156,0:24:09.922

A Southpaw, no wait...

0:24:09.922,0:24:12.208

He lost a world championship.

0:24:12.208,0:24:15.622

Hia Goo contacted me for the fight.

I fought at 130 lbs at that time.

0:24:15.622,0:24:18.604

Pi Chart [Kongthoranee] was 145 lbs.

Hia Goo didn't let him fight though.

0:24:18.604,0:24:25.649

The contract said 145 lbs is 500,000 Baht. 140 lbs is

450,000 Baht. He left right away...

0:24:31.007,0:24:36.171

...You have to control his range.

0:24:36.365,0:24:43.525

You can control his range with leg kicks, or teeps.

0:24:43.525,0:24:46.678

That's important. So he can't kick.

0:24:46.678,0:24:49.038

He can't come in.

0:24:50.378,0:24:53.291

If you want to punch,

you need to use other techniques first.

0:24:53.291,0:24:56.947

Teep, kick then go in to punch.

0:24:56.947,0:25:01.266

If you just walk in,

and the opponent has a long punch,

0:25:01.266,0:25:03.931

then kicks and teeps,

you won't be able to punch him.

0:25:03.931,0:25:09.179

You need to go in with other weapons.

0:25:15.049,0:25:22.874

Ask him, Sylvie. He said start with other

techniques. What other techniques?

0:25:24.860,0:25:28.883

They would be teep, jab...

0:25:29.790,0:25:33.309

especially hook.

0:25:36.577,0:25:41.732

If the opponent is advancing, the hook is good.

You hook and move away to the other side.

0:25:41.732,0:25:43.321

He can't reach you.

0:25:47.642,0:25:52.815

Like this, long guard and close distance. Step all the way to your opponent, close in.

0:25:52.815,0:25:55.235

And move away.

0:25:55.930,0:25:58.606

He never flinched.

Pi Cheep was never surprised.

0:25:58.967,0:26:02.679

If his opponent stepped, he moved.

0:26:03.133,0:26:07.980

I'd come after him and he just.

moved away to the side and then...

0:26:07.980,0:26:10.416

You didn't kick a lot, right?

0:26:10.416,0:26:14.998

Doi [Dieselnoi's play name], what do you want? We have Coke, with sugar or without?

0:26:14.998,0:26:20.567

No sugar, please.

0:26:34.288,0:26:36.896

Pi Cheep would stand "sabai sabai".

He wouldn't be tense.

0:26:36.896,0:26:41.927

And he wouldn't stand flat footed.

Standing flat will slow you down.

0:26:43.044,0:26:45.412

- Is it right?

- yes

0:26:47.659,0:26:52.166

Then kick and kick. Not hard kicks, but fast.

0:26:52.166,0:26:56.371

But once he got in close close, a hard kick to the leg.

0:26:56.371,0:26:59.802

If he was far, not hard kicks.  Only touching.

0:27:00.634,0:27:02.466

Try stepping in to kick.

0:27:02.466,0:27:04.196

Come in and kick.

0:27:04.196,0:27:05.307

No, come in and knee.

0:27:07.883,0:27:09.931

Right? [to Wichannoi] Like this, right?

0:27:13.305,0:27:15.189

Look. you come in and I move to the side.

0:27:15.676,0:27:18.370

Then punch in combinations.

0:27:18.370,0:27:22.074

And if they're left handed, it's even closer...

0:27:22.448,0:27:29.700

He will look for the right timing. If we're the

same height, he would punch like this.

0:27:29.700,0:27:34.755

- He will punch fast.

- I am done.

0:27:35.356,0:27:37.886

Ask him. Ask him.

0:27:41.460,0:27:42.689

Is it right?

0:27:44.000,0:27:50.403

I told her already. Most important...

0:27:51.445,0:27:54.754

First, you need mental strength.

0:27:54.754,0:28:01.901

In fighting, it's only between two people in the ring.

0:28:01.901,0:28:04.383

Handle the opponent's style.

It means..

0:28:04.383,0:28:07.788

what technique he uses,

you plan how to handle his strengths.

0:28:10.907,0:28:14.880

In the ring, if the opponent comes at you this

way, what do you do? You have to think.

0:28:14.880,0:28:16.094

Is it right?

0:28:16.945,0:28:23.249

You know yourself. If he doesn't like knees, you get in but you're too slow.

0:28:23.249,0:28:27.875

Your trainer tells you to knee,

but you know you can't.

0:28:27.875,0:28:32.695

You need to think and move in with other techniques

first before being able to knee.

0:28:33.035,0:28:35.309

Those things are everything.

0:28:36.329,0:28:38.360

Pi Cheep has all of those qualities.

0:28:38.360,0:28:42.712

For other fighters, the corner said to knee so he only tries to knee.

0:28:42.712,0:28:46.389

The opponent defends.

And he still just keeps trying to knee, only.

0:28:46.389,0:28:49.514

It means he doesn't think for himself. He doesn't

adjust his strategy to the situation.

0:28:50.177,0:28:52.016

Right? The corner said to knee, so he just knees.

0:28:52.016,0:28:54.791

A fighter should listen to and follow his corner's advice,

0:28:54.816,0:28:57.283

but he needs to start

with other techniques.

0:28:57.283,0:28:59.725

He has to think.

0:29:00.405,0:29:05.690

I think for Western fighters, we go in

with a plan.

0:29:05.690,0:29:10.479

Like, OK, I've seen he does this, so I'll do that.

0:29:10.479,0:29:15.012

But you can't do this, right?

You have to look at them in front of you in the ring.

0:29:15.012,0:29:21.364

Maybe they kick you and it looked good in video but you feel it yourself and it's not powerful...

0:29:33.639,0:29:38.233

Can you tell her how you trained?

0:29:42.447,0:29:48.519

Train earnestly, concentrate and have intention.

0:29:48.853,0:29:55.506

Most important thing is to know

what your opponent is good at.

0:29:57.757,0:30:02.240

For example the opponent

is good at punching.

0:30:03.240,0:30:05.124

No matter right handed or left handed.

0:30:06.377,0:30:12.432

You need to  have your guard high right away.

0:30:12.432,0:30:15.630

You need good eyes and a strong guard.

0:30:15.630,0:30:20.912

For techniques against a puncher you need a long punch,

0:30:20.912,0:30:25.846

teep, kick, and a spear knee.

0:30:25.846,0:30:29.103

These are techniques for fighting punchers.

0:30:29.469,0:30:32.276

Whether you can do or not

0:30:32.276,0:30:36.005

depends on how good you can time your opponent

0:30:36.005,0:30:39.927

to see his moves. This is very important.

0:30:41.044,0:30:45.045

You really have to see your opponent. In Muay Thai, it comes down to handling your opponent.

0:30:45.045,0:30:50.412

For kickers, you make it so he can't reach you.

0:30:50.424,0:30:51.991

When he kicks, you step back.

0:30:51.991,0:30:54.152

When he moves,

you teep to push him out.

0:30:54.678,0:30:57.757

If he kicks high, you kick low.

0:30:57.757,0:31:00.068

With these tactics,

the opponent can't do anything to you.

0:31:00.659,0:31:06.767

It depends on your ability to see and your training.

0:31:06.767,0:31:10.103

When you train,

you know your technique and style.

0:31:11.300,0:31:15.461

What are the techniques to handle different

styles so you can defeat them?

0:31:15.507,0:31:17.459

How to fight to gain

advantage over the opponent?

0:31:17.459,0:31:21.279

That is your training plan, every day.

0:31:21.591,0:31:24.767

When you get into the ring for a fight,

you have to see and think.

0:31:24.767,0:31:28.444

You train this way. When the

opponent moves, you know right away how to handle him.

0:31:28.444,0:31:32.462

You see and know. You solved it in training.

So you can handle any style.

0:31:32.810,0:31:36.082

Most important thing is your mind.

0:31:37.204,0:31:41.044

Your brain tells your

body to move and act -

0:31:41.044,0:31:44.070

in or out. Kick or something else.

0:31:44.582,0:31:49.104

During the fight, what do you look at?

0:31:49.104,0:31:53.757

Look from here to chest. That's enough.

0:31:55.509,0:31:57.458

You can see everything, right?

0:31:57.458,0:32:03.993

Look at the chest and torso - it's a big target.

Look at the face

0:32:03.993,0:32:05.966

When the opponent moves,

you know right away.

0:32:06.901,0:32:08.351

You see he is about to kick.

You will ...

0:32:08.351,0:32:10.536

He is about to punch. You will...

0:32:10.536,0:32:15.712

There are postures for different

techniques you will need to look at. It's about timing.

0:32:17.420,0:32:20.650

How will you handle punchers? Remember?

0:32:20.650,0:32:24.267

You train and prepare. When the

opponent moves, you act right away.

0:32:24.267,0:32:26.587

Like against a puncher,

the opponent moves, you will...

0:32:27.653,0:32:28.737

Strong arms

0:32:28.737,0:32:31.478

push and block.

0:32:31.478,0:32:35.002

If he comes closer, grab him right away.

0:32:35.500,0:32:40.248

If you want to have good timing,

0:32:40.248,0:32:42.401

how do you improve that?

0:32:42.401,0:32:50.196

Sparring? Shadow boxing?

What is best for improving your timing?

0:32:50.196,0:32:53.476

Padwork is the best for timing.

0:32:53.476,0:32:55.524

- Pads, really?

- Yes, pads.

0:32:55.524,0:32:58.746

You can practice control with padwork.

0:32:58.746,0:33:01.215

If the opponent likes pressing forward,

make padman move around.

0:33:01.215,0:33:05.704

You can punch and angle off.

0:33:06.526,0:33:12.625

If the opponent likes to stay back

and maintain distance,

0:33:12.625,0:33:15.827

you need to step in and block.

0:33:15.827,0:33:19.309

In training, when the opponent steps

away, you follow and block as you come in.

0:33:23.175,0:33:28.764

Footwork is very important.

0:33:29.701,0:33:34.412

Look at me. I am short.

I fought with tall fighters.

0:33:34.412,0:33:37.581

How could I survive?

0:33:45.532,0:33:53.032

Good footwork, good eyes

0:33:53.032,0:33:59.379

Training is important.

Training plan and a good trainer.

0:33:59.379,0:34:06.205

Trainers will coach us in training.

0:34:06.205,0:34:07.562

How you train is your advantage.

0:34:08.568,0:34:09.603

That's the truth.

0:34:09.603,0:34:16.180

You can't just train the same way no matter

who your opponent is. It won't work.

0:34:16.180,0:34:19.484

You have to be able to handle

different styles of opponents.

0:34:22.390,0:34:28.026

It is its own style -

1, 2, uppercut, hook.

0:34:28.026,0:34:31.199

Sometimes we put all of them together.

0:34:34.232,0:34:37.236

Use all of them at the

same time, in one set.

0:34:37.236,0:34:38.343

We call it a "set" [a combination]

0:34:40.931,0:34:43.921

Don't use too much power. right?

0:34:44.778,0:34:46.541

Can't use a lot of power.

0:34:46.541,0:34:47.499

No! Use power!

0:34:47.499,0:34:49.763

But if you use a lot of power,

will it land or not?

0:34:50.803,0:34:54.921

Pi Chatchai Sasakul, a Western Style Boxer.

0:34:54.921,0:34:58.850

He said it rarely lands on the target if you punch with 100% power.

0:34:58.850,0:35:02.902

If use only 70%, you'll be more accurate, hit the target more.

0:35:02.902,0:35:04.499

Oh, when you are using timing and speed.

0:35:04.499,0:35:08.782

Correct. If you punch hard, it will be

too slow and won't hit the right spot.

0:35:10.326,0:35:16.051

When the opponent moves away,

you have to be fast to react.

0:35:16.123,0:35:19.437

Sylvie, Chatchai was Pi Cheep's student,

when he was young.

0:35:24.891,0:35:27.556

Petchyindee, yes.

0:35:27.556,0:35:30.882

Chatchai at Petchyindee.

0:35:32.524,0:35:37.996

When they were young.

0:35:39.076,0:35:41.809

Tell Chatchai you talked to Wichannoi, he'll be pleased.

0:35:45.270,0:35:47.667

He was fast.

0:35:47.667,0:35:53.169

He was fast when he did Muay Thai. [Chatchai]

He liked Muay Khao. He had a good skill [in Muay Thai].

0:35:53.169,0:35:54.488

Really good skill.

0:35:54.488,0:35:59.100

- It was hard to grab him. He was fast.

- Yes, difficult.

0:36:00.774,0:36:03.873

- Very good, that Chatchai.

- Yeah, he moved in and out so fast.

0:36:03.873,0:36:09.203

Good movement, fast hands, and he didn't get tired.

0:36:10.010,0:36:13.110

And good eyes.

0:36:14.541,0:36:17.019

I still remember it.

0:36:17.019,0:36:19.427

Pi Cheep fought with

Padejseuk at Rajadamnern.

0:36:19.427,0:36:21.185

The winner of that fight would fight me.

0:36:21.185,0:36:22.648

I went to watch.

0:36:22.648,0:36:28.150

Pi Cheep lost in their last fight,

so this was a rematch.

0:36:31.609,0:36:35.175

They got in the ring, focused on the fight.

0:36:35.175,0:36:38.252

Padejseuk thought he was fresh.

0:36:40.006,0:36:43.360

He punched Pi Cheep.  Pi Cheep dodged.

0:36:43.360,0:36:46.641

Then Pi Cheep threw in a bunch of punches.

0:36:47.836,0:36:51.123

I was shocked.

0:36:51.554,0:36:54.047

Pi Cheep was like... remember?

0:36:54.055,0:36:56.829

Pi Cheep threw all these punches and then the bell rang.

0:36:56.829,0:37:01.421

Pi Cheep threw so many punches.

Padejseuk got dizzy.

0:37:01.421,0:37:03.824

In just one more minute he would have been KO'd.

0:37:03.824,0:37:07.628

The bell rang. The cornermen jumped in to

carry the other guy back to the corner.

0:37:07.628,0:37:08.899

I was so shocked.

0:37:12.292,0:37:15.063

I was at a disadvantage because

I was short.

0:37:15.063,0:37:16.202

You were smart.

0:37:16.628,0:37:21.128

When I fought,

timing was very important.

0:37:22.070,0:37:27.021

If I got the right timing, I had to move

in and try to score as much as I could.

0:37:27.422,0:37:28.919

Very good timing.

0:37:29.261,0:37:31.625

It was like this because I was short, right?

0:37:31.625,0:37:35.290

Opportunities and openings are few, so timing is important.

0:37:35.787,0:37:38.728

- remember this.

- find the right timing.

0:37:38.728,0:37:43.723

When you get the timing right,

get in and score as much as possible.

0:37:48.967,0:37:52.347

Sylvie, you close in.  The opponent moves away...

0:37:52.347,0:37:56.158

You don't have this tactic yet.

0:37:56.600,0:37:59.829

You have to train and be fast.

0:37:59.829,0:38:06.700

Dieselnoi said to me the last time we fought,

"I will defeat you."

0:38:06.700,0:38:09.318

"Don't expect me to get close."

0:38:10.037,0:38:12.914

And he never came close,

just teeped and kicked.

0:38:13.995,0:38:16.606

He's so long, too.

0:38:17.130,0:38:19.419

Pi Cheep, he always went all-out.

0:38:19.419,0:38:23.069

I finally beat Pi Cheep. I knew you fought your best.

0:38:23.069,0:38:25.203

Pi Cheep never lost.

0:38:25.203,0:38:29.194

When I defeated him, he was already at the end of his career. You know why? Because he was older.

0:38:29.194,0:38:31.034

Pi Cheep, I saw it.

0:38:31.207,0:38:37.420

I knew right away. You can't do it [the same] anymore.

You had fought for a l

0:38:37.420,0:38:42.837

Leading up to stopping, how were you?

Were you hurt?

0:38:43.290,0:38:45.106

I couldn't move as

fast as I wished to.

0:38:46.097,0:38:48.309

I couldn't strike with the same timing.

I couldn't react as fast.

0:38:48.309,0:38:49.516

This is when he was retiring [last fight at 32, in 1980]

0:38:50.056,0:38:56.000

When he was young,

he could strike fast and hard,

0:38:56.000,0:38:58.661

later... not as fast as he wanted to be.

0:39:13.857,0:39:16.734

If I saw the chance,

I would strike as much as I could.

0:39:19.016,0:39:22.737

If he didn't see the opportunity,

he would wait and look for openings.

0:39:22.737,0:39:26.394

He would continue to fight, he wouldn't accept losing but watched to control the game.

0:39:26.394,0:39:31.272

Once he saw the chance, he would hit hard.

Once he saw the opening, he wouldn't wait.

0:39:32.004,0:39:33.471

A whole combination of strikes.

0:39:36.471,0:39:42.177

From what I saw, Pi Cheep always had a plan.

0:39:42.912,0:39:45.776

He would study his opponents.

He wouldn't train for the sake of training.

0:39:45.776,0:39:48.445

In normal training,

he trained on everything -

0:39:48.445,0:39:51.130

kicks, punches, everything.

0:39:51.130,0:39:54.511

When he was training for a fight, he would study the opponent.

0:39:54.511,0:39:56.457

What was their style, what kind of fighter?

0:39:56.823,0:40:00.767

If the opponent likes

to kick and stay away,

0:40:00.767,0:40:04.789

tell the trainer to kick and stay

away in training. And you follow.

0:40:04.789,0:40:09.944

Train this way. Then use this

strategy in the actual match.

0:40:09.944,0:40:11.412

- I understand.

- Understand?

0:40:13.613,0:40:16.613

When you plan,

you must be able to follow the plan.

0:40:16.613,0:40:22.944

You made your plan. You must

follow your plan in the actual match.

0:40:22.944,0:40:24.030

You will win.

0:40:24.649,0:40:30.999

Sometimes you can't do as planned. You

get in, but he is faster than you had thought.

0:40:30.999,0:40:32.563

Much faster

0:40:34.157,0:40:37.709

There are a lot of fighters in the gym.

0:40:37.709,0:40:39.717

But we have different styles.

0:40:39.717,0:40:42.779

Some are punchers, some knee really well...

0:40:42.779,0:40:45.663

so we can all train together to improve, right?

0:40:46.130,0:40:52.160

You have to know everything, punchers or

anything, you must train on all techniques.

0:40:52.160,0:40:56.985

Then in a fight, you see the opponent and have versatility to handle the opponent's technique.

0:40:58.079,0:41:00.744

You can't always handle everyone, you can't always win.

0:41:00.744,0:41:02.919

But train right and you have 80% chance of winning.

0:41:03.787,0:41:06.603

Because you know the opponent.

80% chance of winning for sure.

0:41:08.658,0:41:11.930

Doi is considered one of the

best fighters ever in Thailand.

0:41:13.598,0:41:19.051

Normally tall fighters

are clumsy and awkward.

0:41:19.051,0:41:21.718

Weapons are normally not powerful.

0:41:21.718,0:41:26.473

But he was not clumsy.

His weapons were powerful. And fast.

0:41:26.473,0:41:29.564

His strikes are quite fast for a tall fighter.

0:41:30.642,0:41:34.327

He was one of the best fighters of all time.

0:41:36.141,0:41:39.725

He was one of the best in Thailand.

0:41:41.408,0:41:46.519

There are not many tall fighters who are Yodmuay.

0:41:46.519,0:41:51.890

Most of them broke their legs.

Only Potsai and me were at the top.

0:41:52.130,0:41:54.492

When we fought with Pi Cheep,

0:41:54.492,0:41:57.682

he beat us all.  He was not afraid. [he beat Potsai 3x, Dieselnoi 2x]

0:41:57.682,0:42:01.027

As he said, tall fighters are clumsy.

0:42:01.027,0:42:03.827

When he was hit with knees, he knew how to focus.

0:42:04.510,0:42:06.970

He was skillful.

0:42:06.970,0:42:08.656

If he was hit with knee on this

side, he moved his body the other side.

0:42:08.656,0:42:11.693

The knee missed.

After you miss & recovery is too slow.

0:42:13.475,0:42:17.539

At that moment,

he would throw counters, after you missed.

0:42:18.832,0:42:23.501

Pi Cheep was fast. He would kick the leg.

0:42:23.501,0:42:26.583

So tall fighters struggle with balance, right?

0:42:26.583,0:42:32.542

If I had fought with you when I was

a bit older, I might have fallen down.

0:42:32.542,0:42:34.942

When I fought with you, I was young.

0:42:35.328,0:42:38.041

Before I fought with you, I didn't

know what "seeing stars" was like.

0:42:38.041,0:42:42.000

Try it now.

Look at the light and blink fast.

0:42:43.614,0:42:46.334

That was when Pi Cheep punched me.

0:42:47.750,0:42:55.126

But I was young. A kid around

15-17 years old has a strong body.

0:42:55.126,0:42:57.402

I trained a lot and was very strong.

0:42:58.652,0:43:03.262

He rocked me with a punch in round 4.

0:43:03.262,0:43:06.862

The King was watching.

But I couldn't stand anymore.

0:43:09.632,0:43:12.477

The bell went off.

I walked to the wrong corner.

0:43:12.477,0:43:17.123

When you punched, it was like...

0:43:18.482,0:43:21.742

It was like...how it's

called..."seeing stars"

0:43:25.607,0:43:32.945

If you didn't close in on me - I wouldn't

fight like I did with other people.

0:43:34.038,0:43:38.911

Because I knew I would get

hurt if I tried to close in on you.

0:43:38.911,0:43:40.677

I would be hit.

0:43:40.677,0:43:46.022

Listen. That first time I was scared.

I was not ready.

0:43:46.022,0:43:53.068

I trained. But I went to see Leekeh shows. I went to Karaoke.

0:43:53.068,0:43:56.945

So many of your opponents all lost.

0:43:56.945,0:44:01.897

When it was over... You know what?

0:44:01.897,0:44:06.507

I thought ... damn it! [Dieselnoi lost their first 2 fights together] But it was fun the first time.

0:44:06.507,0:44:08.845

I thought if I trained well. I could win.

0:44:08.845,0:44:10.562

I lost that first time.

0:44:10.562,0:44:14.505

I trained very well the second time.

0:44:14.505,0:44:16.531

I bet 10,000 Baht on myself.

0:44:17.258,0:44:18.934

I was beaten badly.

0:44:18.934,0:44:20.927

You know how it was?

0:44:21.825,0:44:23.212

Pi Cheep was very smart.

0:44:23.212,0:44:28.130

Pi Cheep was confident and

advanced on me to scare me.

0:44:28.834,0:44:32.126

He came forward and controlled the game.

0:44:32.126,0:44:35.258

I used the strategy, just teep and kick, for the third fight.

0:44:35.258,0:44:37.960

Pi Cheep kicked.

He was losing in that fight.

0:44:37.960,0:44:41.461

The audience booed.

He was behind me for 3 rounds.

0:44:42.192,0:44:43.194

That fight wasn't entertaining.

0:44:43.593,0:44:46.852

The entertaining fight would be that I

came forward because I was taller.

0:44:46.852,0:44:48.263

Then Pi Cheep would defend.

That would be what is entertaining.

0:44:48.263,0:44:52.028

But this fight was short fighter vs long fighter.

It was not exciting. The audience booed.

0:44:52.028,0:44:56.612

When I went to the corner, I thought

only 3 more minutes. I would just wait.

0:44:56.612,0:45:00.847

But I went after him [in the final round] and was was almost knocked out.

0:45:00.847,0:45:05.494

I was hit badly. It hurt so much.

0:45:05.494,0:45:08.194

I was dizzy.

0:45:08.194,0:45:09.441

His strikes were so fast.

0:45:11.023,0:45:12.806

He hit me on the side.

It made my counter knee be off target.

0:45:14.583,0:45:18.317

If a fighter did this to

me, [usually] I could get a good knee on him.

0:45:18.317,0:45:19.610

You know why [it worked for him]?

0:45:19.610,0:45:21.090

He just stood over the shoulder.

0:45:21.090,0:45:24.073

I couldn't get my knee to land on him!

0:45:24.924,0:45:29.725

Right? Pi Cheep would... Then I...

0:45:29.725,0:45:32.953

For me, if an opponent stretches

the arm this way, I would grab them.

0:45:32.953,0:45:35.011

It's my knee range.

0:45:35.534,0:45:41.335

Pi Cheep moved to trick me.

So my knee didn't land right.

0:45:42.260,0:45:44.172

I kneed straight and then he would...

0:45:44.172,0:45:48.109

Other people would punch and block.

I could strike back.

0:45:48.109,0:45:50.850

But Pi Cheep would angle off.

0:45:50.850,0:45:53.909

He turned away to the side.

0:45:57.322,0:46:00.081

Just turn you body away from the weapon.

0:46:00.081,0:46:04.645

Against Muay Khao,

it's easy to turn the body away to dodge.

0:46:05.067,0:46:06.753

Turning is easy.

0:46:06.753,0:46:09.240

- Were you ever startled?

- I could see everything. I was never startled.

0:46:09.240,0:46:13.584

When the opponent steps in,

you know what weapon they'll use.

0:46:14.668,0:46:16.968

If you focus, you won't be surprised.

0:46:16.968,0:46:18.264

It will be ok.

0:46:21.540,0:46:25.460

If you are taken by surprise, you are done.

0:46:25.460,0:46:27.361

Pi Cheep was never surprised.

0:46:27.361,0:46:31.468

He was ready. The opponent came in.

He didn't step back.

0:46:31.468,0:46:34.097

Doi, did you fight with Moo? [Pudpadnoi]

0:46:34.097,0:46:35.558

No, I never fought him.

0:46:35.558,0:46:39.927

When he [Pudpadnoi] came back, he was done.

0:46:44.455,0:46:50.347

I couldn't use your strategy.

You were so patient.

0:46:50.347,0:46:53.270

I watched you fight one time [as a kid] when my brother

went to sell charcoal. [at the stadium]

0:46:53.270,0:46:57.583

I saw you fight. And in "The Ring," magazine.

0:46:58.251,0:47:00.838

It cost 1.5 Baht for that magazine in the past.

0:47:01.627,0:47:03.469

I went to see you fight.

0:47:11.039,0:47:14.712

You were tall but your weapons were ok.

You weren't clumsy and had good strikes.

0:47:14.712,0:47:18.908

You used his weapons well.

0:47:19.998,0:47:25.115

When you two fought,

Arajan Dieselnoi was young, right?

0:47:26.933,0:47:28.726

'27... [probably 1978, about 41 years ago]

0:47:28.726,0:47:31.555

I was around 16 years old. How about you?

0:47:31.555,0:47:35.414

I was around 28-30 years old.

0:47:43.526,0:47:45.456

35 years old when I retired. [...a resource records 32, but maybe he kept fighting]

0:47:45.456,0:47:48.422

35? How many fights in total?

0:47:48.422,0:47:50.676

Probably more than 200.

0:47:50.676,0:47:52.605

Only 200 something?

0:47:54.300,0:48:00.036

- You know how many she fought?

- 252

0:48:01.003,0:48:06.728

- 250 something these days.

- Not the same, Arjarn was Yodmuay.

0:48:06.728,0:48:10.155

But it was more fun in the past.

0:48:10.155,0:48:13.992

Toom fought in Nonthaburi [a district of Bangkok, our location].

There were the best fighters here.

0:48:13.992,0:48:17.310

Just a small stadium. They fought in Nonthaburi.

0:48:18.349,0:48:23.967

Really good fighters. Banglee, too. I mean there was also a stadium in this area.