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Chapterhouse Session II Questions & Observations (Patreon)

Published:
2022-11-10 20:00:07
Imported:
2023-05

Content

Leave your questions and observations in the comments below

Comments

Anonymous

Q: Scytale keeps referring back to the great belief and how iirc Taraza had convinced Waff that they also believed it. But what actually was the belief? Leto was a profit of the true God? And they came to the belief because of the "fake" scriptures that Odrade produced? Q: I love the chapter titles you create. Any general thought process on how you pick them?

Anonymous

Questions: 1) How did the BG get Scytale? I know the BG had him since the start of the book, but I just realized I somehow missed how they caught him. 2) (p. 125) Why do the BG let Scytale walk around outside the ship? They give him a tour of some part of the planet at some point (the scene wherein he sees the BG funeral). He clearly isn't a descendant of Siona, so doesn't letting him off the no-ship risk letting him be detected via prescience? Observations: 1) (p. 99) Duncan mentions that naivete is the primary info. gathering state of Mentats. Naivete is also needed by truthsayers. When Teg was critiquing the first honored matre he met, along with her companion, he saw their lack of naivete as a sort of damnation. I think Frank really wanted to communicate that the human experience requires you to appreciate the new, which you can't do if you are certain you already know what's up. 2) (p. 132) - it is so easy to forget that every single Reverend Mother is a literal addict. 3) (p. 175) It cracked me up when Odrade looks down at the sandwich she was eating for lunch. 30000 plus years in the future, pianos are gone, no-ships and laz-guns are here, and, something as prosaic as a sandwich is still around. I imagine the chapterhouse cooks scrambling for the best bread when Mother Superior told them she wanted a sammich for lunch. 4) (basically the last chapter of this section) - Lady Jessica, Miles Teg's Mother, Dortujla - I wonder if somewhere in the BG records someone has commented on how much BG progress has hinged upon the Sisters who broke the rules regarding love. 5) Out of all the incredible roles people play in the Dune universe, I think my dream job would be Futar Handler.

Anonymous

10/10, no notes this week. OK more seriously, I'm annoyed when Herbert puts in some old chapter headers within the thoughts of characters. I paid attention the first time. Words are wind, stop precognizing GRRM. More food description, also Martin-esque, I am guessing sligpork is not space kosher. So we confirm Futars are cat people (or are there other kinds?), do they have mutliple dicks like Klingons? There's your usual complaints about bureaucracies... have you watched the latest Philosophy Tube video? It talks about that, specifically in the context of the British healthcare system, but weaponized (aka strategic) incompetence applies across bureaucracies, whether governmental or private. There is some notes about education, and how good the Bene Gesserit are at that compared to the Honored Matres, but are they really? Herbert seems to be somewhat of a constructivist, the most bullshit, demonstrably inefficient approach to education. Finally, for all this talk about having humanity reach maturity, the "thousands of years in the future" version in the Dune universe, or Duniverse if you will, is immature by construction. They're mostly religious zealots who when they rebel are slave to their sex drive, still hung up on expanding through the universe and needing the one resource, spice, to do it, leading to dumb economics. Why is it that Star Trek TNG is the only mature humanity we ever see in sci-fi, if perhaps also paternalistic colonialists?

Anonymous

I'm still one section behind, my B. So the (not so) Honored Matres are back to destroying planets again. Do you think that there are so many planets in the Dune-a-verse that losing one isn't such a big deal? Also, How does news travel in the Dune-a-verse? Is there some type of media?

Anonymous

Pick **selectively** off this list as there are a ton (sorry) : p.97 "Answers his warders would not give." Funny to think how Google search is already like that, and then that we briefly thought DuckDuckGo -wasn't- like that. p.98, p.100 "always becoming Mentat" This is where Duncan speaks of Mentat defined as something Mentat-postulants or practitioners never fully reach. p.104 circumlocution. p.109 "I will see to it that she is delighted." I dropped that one into chat several books ago. p.109 "The scope of what he sensed in Tleilaxu intentions..." thinking of the present-day, acceleration in biosciences fueled by Covid mated to the upcoming singuarity in AI. p.110-111 "Mentats! You think your questions are answers." And: "Will you be my Mentat, Duncan?" distant echoes across the millennia of Vladimir grinding at Hawat when starting to use Hawat as a mentat, seen through Vladimir's descendant. One can read too much into that but it's enjoyable. p.115 It took until I looked more closely at Alan Watts's recordings outside Watts Wave to find that s'tori was from the Zen satori. p.117 "The typicals fascinated him." Scytale's parallel appraisal of Bene Gesserit mores to go with Duncan's. Each for slightly differently slanted motives of looking for an opening. p.118 "Unlikely there are any dangerous intruders..." Pheremone cow &gt;&gt; Ixian interloper p.118 "They might need Ix themselves" ...it tracks that the Honored Matre being less disciplined, from the opinion of the way the B.G. and B.T. see discipline, would value tech higher? p.119 Tleilax manifestation of self-honesty, to make themselves appear more like some weird hobbit than a form of peak-attractiveness? p.122 "How this woman does chatter!" Another mirror (this time by chance) of how Thufir looked at Vladimir? (comparing that to how Leto the 1st could just evoke a whole paragraph with a gesture) p.125-126 Our lovely death lemons passage. p.128 Snowshoe rabbits and lynx. Another excellent ecological parable to go with the Law of the Minimum. p.149 "Neither fish nor fowl, but your own true self?" Walking Murbella through the transition. p.150 "This acolyte had thick legs but that did not extend to her mind." the arrival of Streggi. p.158-159 Odrade critiquing Honored Matre education with emphasis on rote memorization that encouraged 'cheating' compared to pushing the psyche the hard way. And attitudes toward the gifted (quite relevant to me as a 13-year old reading this in 1986). p.168-169 Death Lemons, Part II p.170-171 "the look of a great orbed fish." Compare the look of Lord Kashigi Yabu's younger brother Mizuno's eyes in the novel Shogun (1975). I think the comparison with Mizuno-san, there, was to a frog. p.176 "It's my duty and right to give you a headache." Now if we can just turn that on its head and be sure that it remains a consistent attitude towards elected officials from their citizenry. Sorry, politics. p.179 "Poetic justice" Bellonda adjusting -rapidly- to the idea, actually for her. p.188 "It's good to be alive. Remember that." One of the tricks in not getting dragged off to detention is for Mother Superior to actually let out one or two things that march right up to the line. p.191-192 "Ahh tyrant! You droll fellow." Without specifics, this is my favorite passage of this reading session. p.193-204 Dortujla, my spirit animal among the Reverend Mothers if ever there were one. For being a fellow numismatist.

Anonymous

I can't remember if the Bene Gesserit had breeding to reduced capacity for love and compassion within their own line . I guess it would be a balance.