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I don't know what his motivation is, or why, but Taofeldermaus decided to accuse me (and InRange) of lying, as in leveraging the YouTube AdSense situation to "scam" you guys into supporting us while we double dipped in some weird way.

This is demonstrably false and I have posted consistent updates with our audience in regards to our actions with InRange monetization, decentralization of content distribution, the weird automatic remonetization nonsense that sometimes goes on, etc.

InRange's YT adsense is disabled, although some videos still enable.  InRange's AdSense account is CANCELLED, GONE, DESTROYED.  The revenue that any erroneous ads generate on InRangeTV will not make us money - it has no where to go!   (I've included some screen shots attached).

Note that ads & YouTube Red generated $151.00 for InRange in August (due to some videos "remonetizing"), but that we will not get that princely sum as we don't even have an AdSense account for it to get funneled to!  The other screen shot proves, again, that the videos are pro-actively demonetized by me personally.   A yellow $ = YT demonetized it, a green $ = it's monetized, a grey $ means monetization is disabled by the content creator.

Anyways, I am bringing this to you - our supporter's attention, as I don't believe in letting things like this fester.   I will approach it head on, directly, and will not stand for slander like this.

You want to say we faked a mud test?  Fine.  Whatever.

You want to say we're lying about our monetization?  That's unacceptable.

I apologize for having to bring you "politics" like this, but it's very important to me, personally, that you understand that my actions with InRange are legitimate and honest, and that we foster true trust with our supporters.

If you want to see his thread, in which he actually states "Oops, wrong channel" after making such statements, here you go:

https://www.facebook.com/taofledermaus/posts/1611014952263213?comment_id=1611131232251585&notif_t=comment_mention&notif_id=1504842603438643

~Karl

Edited to add: He just deleted the entire thread.  Hmmmm....

PLEASE NOTE:

Edited again to add more:  He appears to have dropped this weird accusation and that's all I wanted.  I don't care what he thinks as long as he's not slinging libel around.   There's no reason to pursue this further, we don't need to ask for an apology, we just want to be left alone.

Thank you as always for your continued support!

EDITED AGAIN:

Tao (Jeff) has messaged me personally apologizing for this event and wants to chat.  I'm currently a bit busy this week but I'll speak with him next week and see if we can clarify where this came from in the first place.   Perhaps we can figure out why/what/how this came about and learn how to to a better job explaining our stance to the community as a whole as a result?

Anyways, just wanted to provide an update.

Thanks everyone, as always!

~Karl

Files

Comments

Anonymous

Wow as someone who talked to tau personally im astonished that he would do this im stunned

Anonymous

I understand you're feeling a need to defend yourself and your channel Karl but I for one am here by choice and have faith in you and the work you do. I have no interest in some guy I've never heard of nor his opinion on your channel. I have faith and I trust you and admire your work, I'm not going anywhere anytime in the foreseeable future. Keep rocking, Semper Fi Floyd Raabe

Anonymous

Judging by the linked comment regarding The Rubin Report, this person doesn't understand how YouTube ads work. This is how they work: <a href="https://support.google.com/youtube/answer/2475463?hl=en" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">https://support.google.com/youtube/answer/2475463?hl=en</a> This dude seems to be speaking from a place of ignorance. If he does it again, go after him. For now, let it lie.

Anonymous

Taofledermaus tends to slander Demo Ranch in most his videos aswell. Not sure if it's in jest or if it is a Jealousy thing

Anonymous

blocked him. that guy had been annoying me for quite some time so honestly I feel nothing by removing him from my feed. Good riddance to someone who so carelessly throws accusations of dishonesty out. Karl and Ian, if you are anything like me being accused of lying is one of the few things that instantly piss me off.

Anonymous

Well it looks like he deleted it, what an asshole.

Anonymous

I finished reading the comment train just in time for him to delete

Anonymous

I was in the middle of reading Ian's comment and poof.

Anonymous

Went on ahead and unsubbed from his YT. What a goddamn dipshit

Anonymous

And now Patreon keeps crashing on me..

Anonymous

I just got to Ian's posts when he deleted it. I wanted to see Gun Jesus flip the tables of the collectors. Haha. Good on you two for actively calling someone out on crap that they really have no business talking about in the first place.

Anonymous

What a prick. Unsubbed from his youtube channel. Guy should try doing some research before spouting off.

Corey Allhands

Yep, same thing here. Got to Ian's comment, tried to like it and the whole string was deleted.

Anonymous

He's always been a bit pompous for someone's whose main content was firing whatever they decide to throw in a shotgun that day

Anonymous

I don't think many of the supporters of InRange believe or even entertain the idea that you (Karl and Ian) are anything less than awesome guys. The content you create isn't some mass marketed clickbait. It's good content made by good people. Keep doing what you do.

Charles Adams

It deleted in the midst of my reading it as well.

Anonymous

Wait, who is this guy?

Anonymous

The guy who shoots whatever people send him out a shotgun

Anonymous

Tau does like shooting rand stuff out off a shotgun vids legos, ball bearings, battries etc. Rule of cool not very informal at all

Anonymous

It's pretty clickbait for the most part

Anonymous

Never head of this shithead before, will never watch his trash now that I have heard of him. Btw, Karl, in print it's libel.

Anonymous

Yeah i used to talk to him in the C&amp;Rsenal mumble he seemed like an ok dude cant believe he dropped the ball this hard

Anonymous

Well, his videos had gotten stale anyway and I hardly watched them, but I went ahead and unsubbed from him, for whatever good that does.

Anonymous

Recently y'all stated somewhere (don't recall where) that y'all didn't wanna be the "Mud Test Channel". Tauflewhatshisname is precisely that sort of content. They had some wild idea to shoot something strange out of a shotgun one time and have recycled that idea over and over again. If you've watched one of their videos, you've seen them all.

Anonymous

Any chance of sharing the screenshots? Would just like to see how he went about this, and the response he received. Keep it up you guys, love your content.

Anonymous

What a douchebag

Anonymous

What an ass. His channel is garbage anyway. Demo Ranch does the "random stuff out of a shotgun" thing WAY better.

Anonymous

First time I ever went to his site and it was to ask if they were going to slander you guys there as well - freaking idiots

Anonymous

Damn, it's like watching your parents fight in front of you. But in this case, I wholly believe Karl and Ian... It's a shame I liked both channels a lot, Idk what got into him...

Anonymous

Very well spoken in your statements against his accusations. You handled that about as well as you could of. Sadly the internet is just like this sometimes, it's happened before and it'll more than likely happen again. I'm sure I speak for all of us in saying that something like this isn't going to keep us from supporting the channel, and what you do.

Anonymous

Gun Jesus cleaning up the thread: <a href="https://www.reddit.com/r/weekendgunnit/comments/6svhjc/jesus_guns_down_hundreds_of_romans_that_are_after/?st=J7BDLAK2&amp;sh=d1243288" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">https://www.reddit.com/r/weekendgunnit/comments/6svhjc/jesus_guns_down_hundreds_of_romans_that_are_after/?st=J7BDLAK2&amp;sh=d1243288</a>

Anonymous

well that's unfortunate, it seems like there is a reason why Pro Second Amendment people can't seem to band together like the anti-gunners can, from what I have seen, a lot of gun owners/guntubers and people in the comment section can't let ego go and we spend all our time arguing with each other over what a lever is called, how to hold a pistol etc. thanks though for letting us know, I don't want to support channels that do that kinda crap, part of the reason I am such a pround Patron of InrangeTV and ForgottenWeapons

Bob McCormick

If I wanted drama I would have stayed in high school longer than 5 years. 🤔

Anonymous

If he has a problem, then arrange a meetup, breakout the timer, and settle it that way. Looser buys beers.

Anonymous

While this Taowhatever can file compliant. You can respond, can't you? In order for YT to take such action, he must have produced some sort of "proof". Find out what the violations are and counter them. Hope for the best. InRange is one of my favorite channels.

Anonymous

Um. I support people on Patreon who still get money from AdSense. Like, for example, Forgotten Weapons. You might've heard of them. You have no reason to lie to us, so I've always taken you at your word. They videos you made proving you'd demonetized were just a nice touch.

Anonymous

The last thing we need is a friggen civil war amongst gun channels seriously we need to fight this together not slapping each others wrists Tao' needs to cool his heels you guys provided ample proof that InRangeTV is demonitised by your choice I think MAC is following you guys dunno about other gun channels but seriously Tao shouldn't just slander you guys the way he did, I subscribed to both Forgotten Weapons and InRangeTV for you and Ian's no bullshit honest reviews and have learned ALOT because of it keep up the good work and tell Tao (or maybe I will) to keep his shit together and not start shit talking.

Anonymous

Hey if you want to talk to Jeff from Taofledermaus he's in the C&amp;Rsnel Mumble right now. Label: C&amp;Rsenal Address: vx21.commandchannel.com Port: 2195 Password: rata tat tat

Anonymous

He sure took on some backwater as soon as Karl commented. I don't know why he'd lie, but apparently he told a bold faced story because he sure tried to deflect to just Ian; then Ian shows up and now he's trying to delete the whole thing. I still get the occasional ad from creators that are in the "no money for you club", but I find it's usually a movie ad, the NRA, a holster ad, or from Google itself (usually a game from the app store). I wouldn't be surprised if Google doesn't run ads on demonetized channels more so they don't have to share...greedy SOBs.

Anonymous

Yeah he's still talking stuff about you guys

Anonymous

Wow wonder what got into him. Wonder if Othais and Mae are going to tell him to pound sand too. Tim with MAC shares when stuff has been demonitized by YT, but you still get ads there regardless. I don't think it's the content creators controlling this most of the time. Karl, you found the setting to kill all ads altogether. I haven't seen a single one on InRange in quite a while.

Anonymous

"I don't like Karl he's a real cunty person" I just over heard that

Anonymous

OFFS, are we going to degenerate into another stupid them versus us internet gang fight silliness? That is the stuff of reality TV.

Anonymous

This is why I'm not on Facebook. Some people never grow up.

Anonymous

Have a shot of Finish liquor and ask what would Jarmo do? <a href="https://youtu.be/UaUCY6RS7Zw" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">https://youtu.be/UaUCY6RS7Zw</a>

InRangeTV

No, we are not. I merely replied and posted our defense. If he continues to sling poo, that's on him and unfortunate.

Anonymous

*sigh... This is why I support you guys over every other channel. You guys are about knowledge and passing it on. I feel like I learn something new with every video of yours I watch. THAT is the biggest reason why I support you guys, I enjoy learning from you. Tao is entertaining to watch because well the stuff they do is silly, but I learn nothing. It is sad that he had to go and make snide remarks when he should be calling for support from everyone to help out California but oh well. Inrange will for sure have my money every month and no other channel will. Thank you Karl and Ian for your awesome content.

InRangeTV

I'm used to that. Whatever. That's a lot different than saying we're lying to you.

Anonymous

Taofeldermaus has lost my respect. To publicly slander InRangeTV and make such a ridiculous statement with zero factual evidence to support their opinion shows just how ignorant and uninformed they are. I notice their channel has zero issues with collecting revenue from Patreon supporters, while advertising continues to roll in for their clickbait videos. Jeff has failed to realize that InRangeTV made the choice not to be held hostage by corporate advertising dollars and YouTube's politics. Clearly he missed the point that mainstream media is losing control, and is fighting the growing trend of online media that is free to produce what consumers actually want, not what corporate mainstream media allows consumers to have, along with pushing their agenda and narrative down our throats. InRangeTV operates on a free market principle, offering firearm related information/entertainment that people choose to support. Consumers want this channel to exist because few channels offer what InRangeTV does, and they are able to do it because they are only beholden to their own principals and to us the supporters. Not to YouTube not to corporate advertising whores. Shame on Jeff @ Taofeldermaus for making such a false and ill-informed statement. If anything he should be praising your move to break the chains of YouTube / Mainstream Media control. And be happy that the product InRangeTV offers is something people want and are willing to support with their hard earned money.

Anonymous

Le sigh. Plus, YouTube will occasionally run ads on demonetised videos for their own benefit. Anyone like Jeff with a YouTube channel should have spotted this by now...

Anonymous

Who's this Taofledermouse? Never heard of her. Seriously. I won't even bother to look up the channel so as not to give them the satisfaction of additional views. Not because I'm a fanboy of InRange, but because their claims are so demonstrably false that it calls into question their own integrity and critical thinking abilities.

Knathaniel C

just, why? I don't get it. I like your content I throw you a few bucks your way. I applaud the decision to demonetize from Adsense, but I was a patron before that and I still would be ads or no. What on earth does he gain from trying to crap on you folks? I mean I don't know what to expect from the guy who drops black widow spiders into mercury to see if they float (science says yes, since gosh damned LEAD floats in mercury) and doesn't understand that you can get a breakaction shotgun with a Cylinder bore or a modular choke system but IDK what to think of any of his videos anymore.

Anonymous

Mud test envy. He did "what if I shot myself in the foot?" test.

Mrgunsngear

Stinks that these types of incidents/accusations even happen in 2017. United we stand; divided we fall...

InRangeTV

Very disappointing. I felt obliged to respond to this and for that I am sorry to have to do.

Anonymous

Please post Screen shots :) I didn't get to see it :(

Anonymous

I had a single interaction with him where he pretty much told me that if I thought I was so smart (after an honest suggestion) that I should do the test myself, so I unsubscribed from his channel, stopped viewing his work, and remove any suggestion of his work from my feed. I kinda got a glimpse that he was actually a monumental prick, this is somewhat unsurprising.

Anonymous

Wait, he shot himself in the foot? Oh my god, that's hilarious.

Anonymous

He pulled his post.

Anonymous

Don't worry Karl, we know you're above that kind of thing. I would have much more suspicion of someone accusing you of that... do people honestly accuse you of 'faking' mud tests? I avoid comment sections like the plague (unless I want to laugh at how asinine some people can be) but this is just too much. Legitimately, who sits at their computer and goes 'time to take down those crooks at InRangeTV, here I go!'

Anonymous

That dude is such a fuckwit. Makes giant erroneous claims then abandons them the second there is any backlash. If you're going to be a cunt don't be a coward too.

Anonymous

<a href="http://i.imgur.com/4OMtVgH.jpg" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">http://i.imgur.com/4OMtVgH.jpg</a> Here is a Screen shot

Anonymous

"[They] outright lied to their viewers" a statement which as it happens seem;s to be an outright lie. Some people might call this cognitive dissonance.

InRangeTV

I can prove every statement we've made about InRangeTV demonstrably, and did so partially today with screen shots. I don't know why he did this.

Anonymous

Man that sucks bad. Maybe he's pissed because all he does is 12 gauge crap that gets weird and repetitive. I enjoy the content and I have 0 problems paying a little for it.

Alex V

They were abused children. You guys are still class all around in my book.

Anonymous

You've done right by us mate! Keep up the good work and don't let the foolish get you down!

Anonymous

Honestly, his channel represents the typical clickbait, more views more money fledgling concept. It's boiled down to appeal to a common denominator. He is dependent on Views and Ads, therefore in the end will jump how high YouTube tells him to. I personally get the sense he is envious of Karl and Ian's success with InRangeTV, and ability to do it while not needing a dime from ads, and not needing to beg YouTube for monetization.

Anonymous

I have patreon for channels I WANT to support and was supporting before you demonetized completely, not an issue with me. Keep up the good work, or I'll take back my dollar:-))))lolololllolol

Anonymous

Reading his comments (before he deleted them) pissed me off quite a bit. So it may be hard for me to read them objectively. But if I try I can't reasonably conclude he has any idea what the fuck he's talking about. Hopefully he deleted them soon enough that not many people read them and blindly accepted them as truth because as I see it you guys are about the only ones doing it right

Anonymous

Did anyone else hear Karls and Ians voice while reading their comments on the screen-shot?

Anonymous

This is ridiculous, all he did was insult both you and Ian, freaking asshat. All this does is make me want to pledge more. I love y'alls content keep it coming and don't let this bring you down.

Anonymous

Sounds like some asshat trying to create drama where there is none.

Anonymous

Wow..wtf..I liked his videos, the humor, random targets and the just plain screwing around with shotguns..He always sounded like he wasn't the type to just bust out with bullshit like that. Obviously I do not know him, but the viewer can get a little bit of an idea about a presenters character. When a channel has been pretty consistent with their content, and their track record seems to have kept a good line (afaik) there are some basic assumptions..BASIC..that can be inferred. Anyway, what I'm trying to say is that to me, and my view of his channel, he certainly would not have been the one I would have guessed to strike out blindly. Particularly if he made up evidence on the fly..I haven't yet read the whole thing. What a fucker. As I read the conversation I am getting a sense of him being angry as if what IRTV and FW did was directly harming him somehow. They chose to get themselves out of YouTube's influence, he is angry at something not affecting directly if at all. What Ian and Karl do with their structure has no bearing on his practices or results. He just plain started out with "They lied" and "making a ton of money off people" then he states they were purposely misleading their viewers and supporters after the supposed revenue had returned. With not a shred of evidence. That is some heavy sacks of batshit crazy BS ( I see what I did there ). He went full speed ahead AND continued with putting himself in Karl and Ians head, knowing their supposed motives because they "thought the sky was falling." That is some magnificent insight he is capable of since he mentions no source to refer to this assumption.None of this is my business, I am just a viewer and supporter. IRTV and FW's videos are (to my very slow mind) incredibly well researched and hyper informative. Both Ian and Karl consistently present their content with as little bias as they can manage. We all have personal biases, but hey clearly show all their cards on the table. And they seem to have good relationships with museums, auction houses, and any number of other entities which they interact with. Ian particularly has cost me money because of those damn auction videos. So I get offended when someone throws baseless accusations publicly after two of my favorite firearms-history resources on YouTube. For what purpose would Taofledermaus even go down that path? Also, I had like a really awesome point and a closing line which was awesome and remarkably insightful and witty which started me on this comment. I forgot it. So there is no neat and tidy viewpoint to validate my ramblings. Sorry.....Anyway TLDR: Dats fucked up, he sucks.

Anonymous

Ian already said -on video- that he did not de-monetize FW...What is this guy's problem? Lets assume you guys are making "tons" of money (more like barely an average paycheck)...That's a good thing. A very good thing. Because you make the best videos both on IR and FW. And both these channels have higher expenses then taking out some stuff and shooting it with shotgun slugs viewers sent you. Especially FW, with Ian travelling here and there. Karl I hope you and Ian do make a metric sh** ton of money cause you guys deserve it.

Anonymous

Money does strange things to people, referring to Taofladermaus. Money + social networking, I can't imagine.

Anonymous

I sent him a message saying I was pretty disgusted to see that he would not only make claims like that about others when he didn't know for a fact they are true but he also deleted the evidence that he was wrong instead of owning up to it and editing his posts to reflect the fact he is wrong. I also told him that as a member of the gun community he should know how annoying it is when media figures make erroneous claims about things they don't know a lot about and how we should all hold ourselves to a higher standard than them.

Anonymous

I didn't expect this from tdm. From his videos he seemed like a nice guy.

Anonymous

I stopped watching Taofledurmaus's content a few months ago due to their bashing of other channels. I can't say I'm surprised he would make false claims about InrangeTV. Him and Officer Greg are self righteous pricks.

Thomas Stancomb

Thanks for being proactive with this stuff. It wouldn't have changed my donation to InRange, but it is better for there to be as little confusion as possible.

Anonymous

Makes me glad i stopped watching them, because Tao was fine at first but then became a bit less civil in how they talked and presented stuff. Which is part of the reason I like InRangeTV so much. Because you guys are very civil in how you act and present things, thus don't give anyone unwarranted shit. How one acts towards other people matters, because you can talk in a crude and bastard way. But if you keep such things to yourself, than really no ones cares. A good example is AVE, who is very professional but does not talk in a way most would call professional.

Anonymous

I'm sad that Tao did this, he just lot a viewer. No one could have been more transparent about the de-monitization than you have been Karl, you have kept us in the loop all the way. But I was a patreon subscriber before that process started, I wish youtube would come to their senses and allow you to make money from there channel as you previously did, but this is mainly because I am sick to death of anything with shooting content being discriminated against. Clay Tall Stories nearly had to stop producing videos because his revenue stream dried up, so a band of his viewers (me included) got him to open a patreon account so we could help him keep making the films we all enjoy watching so much, and it has worked. If you enjoy hunting, shooting and good music, and are not put off by a little swearing (he's a Kiwi!) give him a watch too. Screw youtube!!

Anonymous

While I think taofledermaus was way off base, talking out of his ass and should definitely be apologising for his stupid accusations, I'd like to play devils advocate here for a bit. To start with I'm from the UK so I'm not going to pretend to understand American humour, written or spoken quirks or your culture as I know that all are quite different from my country’s own. However I think I'v got a bit of a handle on how Jeff thinks or at least how his public persona does. For quite a while Jeff has been having a bit of a joke around the subject of other gun channels in his videos comments and recently its started to show in his videos too. This mainly surrounds people saying “you should send # to demolition ranch” and similar things about other channels to the degree it's become a meme. I'll admit to joining the joke suggesting he should send his tungsten cube to InRange to mud test as a final and definitive way to break it. I don't think that he means you guys any shade by having a joke about other channels I simply think he's having a joke at a subset of his audience. With regard to his accusations and their lack of any evidence whatsoever, I think he made a mistake and definitely should not have said what he said, but it takes a big man to apologise when they publicly fuck up like this and the more people you'll get embarrassed in front of the harder and harder it becomes especially with the inflated sense of self that YouTube fame tends to bring. It's much easier to simply double down and stick you your guns (no pun). I think Karl should approach Jeff behind the scenes and ask for a private apology to de-escalate the situation. Jeff will probably get enough punishment from people unsubbing and leaving him shitty comments on his videos and any damage done by his words will soon be forgotten. From the replies he received in that thread I think 90% of anyone that read it thought he was being stupid and that probably only accounts for a tiny fraction of a percentage of his or InRange’s viewers.

Anonymous

What an ass, and too bad -- TFM was one of my favorite channels. Unless he fesses up and is contrite soon, he's lost me as a viewer.

Anonymous

I supported you guys through Patreon before you disabled all your ad stuff. So even if this turned out to be true, which I know it isn't, I wouldn't care. It would just mean you guys would be getting more money to keep making videos. And that's all any of your supporters want I would assume, so who cares?

Anonymous

Wow. Time to unsub from the low-brow shove junk in shotgun shell channel. I think I'll up my monthly amount to InRange too while I'm feeling feisty.

Anonymous

I'm quite appreciative of how above-board and transparent you are being about this, Karl. I watch Taofledermaus whenever I see a vaguely interesting click-bait title of his, but it's all clearly low effort content. Not to hate, but I get the feeling that him putting you guys on blast was a very quick, off the cuff reactionary thing and I wouldn't necessarily ascribe malicious intent. Either way, great seeing you two handle things like this professionally!

Anonymous

Addendum: Just read through the FB convo and, yeah, he was being completely unprofessional. I still don't know if he was intending to ruin your reputation for the purpose of hurting your business, but it's definitely some weird, angry rebuke.

Anonymous

A false public accusation deserves a sincere public apology. Pulling the thread clearly indicates he knows what he did was wrong and is now trying to cover it up. In the vernacular, it's a dick move, and one that I'd expect from a pouty over privileged teen. Your handling of the monetization issues, and now this, only strengthens my respect for you gentlemen. You're clearly demonstrating that there is a better way and that online non-big media content can be of the highest caliber. I wasn't even aware that Patreon was a thing until y'all brought it up, and I'm happy you did because I now gladly support y'all and several others. I'm also quite disgusted at the way YouTube handles the monetization thing. I'm happy to watch at Full30 and now BitChute looks interesting.

Anonymous

Well, I'm sure I shan't be saying anything original by commenting on this but I'd like to say that I trust you guys, I believe in the content you're creating and I believe in the viewer supported model you're advocating. Because I trust you and because you've been very transparent with us, I do not give a damn what someone from a channel I don't watch says about it (and then deletes). I'm proud to be a (very small) part of making InRangeTV and other great channels financially viable. I really appreciate the content you make and I look forward to the great content that you'll produce in the future.

Anonymous

Taofledurmaus should post a video apologizing for libel...they were public defamatory false statements that were intended to damage yours &amp; Ian's reputation in the community + secondly to cause economic harm by trying to undermine the Patreon support. NO ONE who has actually watched InRangeTV or ForgottenWeapons content would EVER believe what Taofledurmaus said - the distinctive characteristics of the content that you both produce is that it is well thought out and researched, based on actual experience, professional and genuine.

Anonymous

I hate getting into all this crap. I went to the link and it was removed. I guess he saw the error in his way. Why can't we all just play nice together and stop trying to out do one another.

Anonymous

Jeff must have been dunk typing or something, he seemed like he was just ranting for the sake of it, and had no idea what he was talking about. I like Taofledurmaus channel and I watch it all the time. I don't know what the hell Jeff's deal was but he was acting like an idiot.

Robert Arthur

I wouldn't care even if you were "double dipping," because that's not a thing. Patreon support and ad revenue are completely separate, and nobody should care if you use both. It's fine if you choose not to, but there's nothing morally wrong about it.

Anonymous

Well, I think he's wrong to assume we wouldn't give money to patreon even if you were accepting ad revenue.

Anonymous

Should we comment on his Facebook posts asking kindly that he offer an apology?

Anonymous

Sounds to me like Taofeldermaus is jealous of the support both InRange and Forgotten Weapons is receiving. I for one greatly appreciate your honesty. It is refreshing. And as confirmation, I believe it was during your most recent Q&amp;A that Ian also confirmed that he still uses his AdSense account for the little bit of support it still offers.....for now. He explained himself publicly. How can that be lying? Jealously is ugly and public jealously only drives people away. Nobody enjoys your actions Taofeldermaus. If you don't change your ways, you will loose a LOT of your subscribers. You lost me.

Reverend Charles

Wow, Jeff's being a dick. Oh well, every other comment was 100% supportive and called him out as such.

Anonymous

This surprises me. I have always had the impression that Jeff was an alright guy. I hate this kind of crap. The gun community eats it's own and that has to stop.

Anonymous

No matter what you do on the internet there will be someone who doesn't believe you. I'm too jaded to believe what people on the internet say at face value. However since you guys started this i haven't seen a single add in any of your video's and i pretty much watch all of them, so i see no reason to question what your doing regarding monetization . Regardless of anything else if you guys didn't put out good content you would not have Patreon supporters. That is the bottom line. I know it is very hard to be called a liar when your not and when it's something you are extremely passionate about. I am glad you brought it to our attention and it gives us a chance to decide whether or not to support him anymore. Unless Jeff continues i would like to see the high road be taken and not bother with this anymore. I wouldn't even mention it in a video because i don't feel it's worth it, there is enough infighting and bashing in the gun community as it is.

InRangeTV

I have no desire to pursue this further besides stopping him from spreading this untruth. If the's done doing so, then I see no value in engaging him further.

Anonymous

Well fuck that little mouse cause I"m an albatraoz!

Anonymous

Karl, I pledged my support to this channel even before you got rid of the AdSense. But did like it when you did dump AdSense because that showed you believed in us the supporters to keep inrange up and running. thanks for the great content and keep up the good work

Anonymous

To me, their channel is a waste of time. The kind of dribble I'm glad Inrange avoids. They are popular though. So I say any press is good press.

Anonymous

I excuse myself for the language, knowing that insults don't bring anything worthwhile to a discussion, but: Fuck that guy.

Anonymous

Just wow. I literally have no words...

Anonymous

"oops wrong channel" is right!

InRangeTV

PLEASE NOTE: He appears to have dropped this weird accusation and that's all I wanted. I don't care what he thinks as long as he's not slinging libel around. There's no reason to pursue this further, we don't need to ask for an apology, we just want to be left alone. Thank you as always for your continued support!

Anonymous

If TFM did have ill intent, and I'm not saying he did, he accomplished nothing. I got to read through most of it before it was deleted and it was mostly him defending his position... poorly. Like many here, I've supported IRTV since before you nuked your AdSense account. You guys should be proud of the amount of pushback he got for that nonsense. Keep doing what you're doing!

Anonymous

i wonder if it was just a case of getting InRange and ForgottenWeapons confused? I recall Ian saying FW is not demonetized the same way as InRange (and I don't blame him, travel is expensive!). Of so, it is understandable, though still bullshitty to make an accusation.

David Heck

Unsubscribed from TFM after reading this what a tool.

Anonymous

Personally, I have a feeling that the no-compromise stance that InRange adopted, pissed off quite a few channels. Probably because they know some people are wondering: "if InRange did it, why don't all channels do it instead of collecting Patreon money + ad money?". Which is a legitimate question, but also a relatively easy to answer one, like Ian did when he explained why he didn't demonetize Forgotten Weapons. However it's easier to get pissed off than to provide explanations. Another example is Chris Bartocci. Used to really like his videos because the guy has a serious wealth of knowledge. Ian even promoted him on FW in the less-known-but-worthy gun channels video. Yet in one of his Q&amp;A Chris and wife proceeded to call the InRange de-monetization a gimmick aimed at convincing people to give them money. THAT rubbed me the wrong way.

Anonymous

We watch and we pay, little, for content and an opinion that's well thought out and with substance.. If you could get money from other sources, good for you.. Other guys throwing stones at all this is nonsense. I said before give aways and such are nice but not why we are here! Look forward to having a beer with you guys sometime!

InRangeTV

Add Chris Bartocci to this list: "Another example is Chris Bartocci. Used to really like his videos because the guy has a serious wealth of knowledge. Ian even promoted him on FW in the less-known-but-worthy gun channels video. Yet in one of his Q&amp;A Chris and wife proceeded to call the InRange de-monetization a gimmick aimed at convincing people to give them money. "

Anonymous

OMG. The DRAMA!! How many adolescent guntubers are there?

InRangeTV

I don't know but this is disappointing. We're doing what we believe is the right course forward with these challenges and not telling anyone else what to do yet at least two of them at this point have decided to lash out for no good reason. They should do what they want to do, we'll do what's right for us. I have no reason to fight other channels, that's pointless and counter productive.

Anonymous

I started to watch Chris because of Ian, and when I saw that Q&amp;A where his wife decided to go off on her money tangent, and Inrange slandering all while saying Chris is so unique as compared to the rest of the internet I felt obligated to politely let them both know how I personally felt. The free market sorts everything out in the end and if they cannot make a career off of sitting in front of their camera complaining about others or the fact that manufactures don't want to send them free rifles then maybe just maybe they really are not that special after all? Instead of bitching about what other channels are doing or going about dealing with the revenue loss InRange put it all on the line and went all in and so far it appears to have been a success and I hope that it continues to going forward for You as well as our little community.

Frank Baud

It seems like a big misunderstanding due to youtube's shitty policies. I'm sure Karl and Jeff could work it out over a beer.

Military Arms Channel

How is ANY of this their business? Our own community is full of rats that do everything they can to tear others down. I suspect it's driven by jealousy. When many of us moved to Patreon we had other gun channels accuse us all of "e-begging" and they claimed to be above doing the same. Again, how we earn a living is none of their business however they can't resist acting like jealous grade school children for some reason. In the end it only makes them look bad which is why I suspect he backed off. It blew back on him. Hopefully he learned a valuable lesson, "mind your own business".

Julian Corbett

To be quite frank, I would not be bothered if you were still getting revenue from ad's although I know that IR is not. I chose to support your and Ians Patreon accounts because I enjoy the content you both make and if supporting on Patreon means that you don't have to compromise the quality and information to YT's clickbaity videos to gain revenue, that's all to the good.

Anonymous

I fully agree. If I get quality content I´m ready to pay for it.

Brandon T

Even if so it doesn't make it any better nor any more meaningful: TFM is making money off of both AdSense and Patreon, so at the very least he would be guilty of the same "double-dipping" as FW was, assuming that was the case. Saying he "got channels confused" was a knee-jerk reaction to try and stop this from blowing up in his face even more, which in turn was followed by yanking the thread and *really* blowing it up. Sigh.

Brandon T

Karl, although I'm not at all sure my idea is the "right" idea or even a good idea, I figured I'd post it just in case you hadn't already been contemplating doing something like this (there's a chance you might have already mentioned it in a video, but I'm pretty sure it was only in comments, not actually on tape): Perhaps you should make another "we demonitized ourselves" video - you've already got a couple so I don't see any harm in another - where you explain to the viewers that despite the demonetization it appears that YT is *still* playing ads occasionally, but that even when that happens you can't get a penny as there's no AdSense account tied to it (as you've stated in type), that people should feel free to complain to YT for running ads before videos whose creator does not want to be monetized (assuming there isn't a caveat in the TOS that says YT can do this, of course), and end with a statement - once again - that IRTV is not trying to speak for anyone other than yourselves, that...sigh, nevermind. I was thinking there was a way to word this to point out that you're not saying everyone else should demonitize, or that they're wrong for not doing so, but it won't happen that way. Ugh.

Anonymous

Hey MAC it's nice to see other community based channels back and support one another. As I stated earlier in another post regarding this topic both yourself and Inrange invested in your channels future by creating a community and getting them involved. While there are some great perks given to members I think that both you as well as Inrange/Forgotten Weapons would still have the support you all do to the quality which has always been there made with the core viewer always in mind.

Anonymous

How does he do that? I'm not all that familiar with DR so I probably have missed the references.

Anonymous

I can't really comment on the technicalities of the issue, but just looking at the screencapped discussion it seems like there's not a common understanding of the mechanics of the ad system. TFM/Jeff argues his point in a pretty confused manner. It's possible and even likely that it's a misunderstanding. Why he is so upset and accusatory I don't really get at all. He seems pretty easy going in his videos, though comments etc sometimes seem to get under his skin a bit. I am a little wary of posts like this one, with drama attached to them. (and I'm only trying to be constructive here, I hope it comes out like that) People get pretty attached to things they're fans of, and these sort posts can be seen to imply a call to arms. I really hope there's no great fallout or back and forth between fanbases, anything like that. It doesn't lead to anything good in my view. None of us can know in full how you settle things privately, anyway. I hope you can figure it out between you, and don't have to be on bad terms, I enjoy his stuff a lot as well. Cheers.

InRangeTV

There is no call to arms, and I am not looking for anything other than stopping the false accusations (which he seems to have done). I can absolutely tell you that I will not be collaborating with him on anything...uh, *ever*, and I do consider him to be on my "no-go" list per this incident.

Anonymous

Keep up the great work! Don't listen to their bull shit! Y'all make great content!

Anonymous

Well, that's too bad. I'm surprised Tau would bother, but it looks like he's changed his tune. Honestly, I'm not as surprised about Chris B. and I don't mean that negatively, just how he strikes me. At any rate I was a Patreon prior to demonetization, and I still am. I contribute because of the content, including digital rights stuff. I've had a couple opportunities to do business with Ian in the past and I can testify to his trustworthiness; and I think, by extension, Karl's. Anyway, too bad, so sad.

Bruce Brodnax

I disagree: he doesn't deviate from his format, and most of the vids are pretty much same-same, but he's found more acorns than a blind squirrel, so, in the land of blind squirrels that is the general run of YT videos, he's a squirrel w/ 20/100 vision...

Bruce Brodnax

Nah. I watched Tao way b4 I'd heard of Demo Ranch, &amp; I'm still watching Tao &amp; only catch the occasional DR vid. Tao &amp; OG have a great dynamic going on: Tao's gonna be hatin' life if Officer Greg ever tires of working w/ him...

Bruce Brodnax

Heh! Yeah, you can even give Tao the *advantage* &amp; let him use the modern &amp; oh-so-very-kuuuhl non-NFA Mossberg Shockwave while Karl uses that scruffy old cowboy SxS double barrel... Mano a mano, shotgun to shotgun! ;-D

Anonymous

I just cancelled my patron support of Taofledermaus!

Anonymous

I appreciate the idea that they're attempting to police the community so that people can't get away with this kind of stuff, but... InRangeTV? Really? I'm not going anywhere.

Anonymous

Forward thought and success always gets detractors, especially when it comes to money, so take this nonsense from other youtubers as a sign that you must be doing something right! Thanks for nipping it in the bud and highlighting it to us though....... Keep giving us the intelligent entertaining videos, and I'll keep giving my dollar.

Anonymous

AVE is awesome, his teardowns are extremely entertaining and he's not afraid to admit when he gets something wrong. Although he has kinda messed me up because now whenever someone ends their vid with "thanks for watching" like Ian does, I automatically think of "keep your dick in a vise" hopefully Ian ends his next April fool's day vid like that.

Anonymous

I support both channels I was going to let him know I don't approve, but since you updated it and said let it drop I will do just that.

InRangeTV

Another Update: Tao (Jeff) has messaged me personally apologizing for this event and wants to chat. I'm currently a bit busy this week but I'll speak with him next week and see if we can clarify where this came from in the first place. Perhaps we can figure out why/what/how this came about and learn how to to a better job explaining our stance to the community as a whole as a result? Anyways, just wanted to provide an update. Thanks everyone, as always!

Anonymous

I too don't care if you're getting revenue from them or not... well it would be better if you did, more money to do your work is always nice :).I give because of what you do and am a proud supporter !!!!! Thanks and keep up the great work !!!

Anonymous

You and Ian produce some of the highest quality content on Youtube. IR and FW are 2 of only 3 channels that I support monetarily because I appreciate the educational quality of your content. I don't know why this all went down, by I'd say keep on keep'n on!

Anonymous

I wouldn't get too mad about Chris Bartocci's wife's comments. I was was watching that live stream and that was a mere opinion on her part. That was right around when YouTube just changed their entire monetization algorithm and they were suffering from it. As you remember, they first tried putting all their content behind a pay wall and at the time I don't think they had a Patreon account yet. They were getting a lot of flak for doing that and someone asked them about the pay wall on their live stream and after dealing with all the negative backlash from their decision for about a week, that's when she made that comment. I would regard it more as frustration from the entire situation and less of a direct attack on InRange. Chris actually speaks positively about you guys(Although he does not think that the mud tests are a valid test of field reliability).

Anonymous

Everyone is entitled to their opinion. That being said if i hadn't already been a supporter I probably would have started at that point. Screw the google bastards. (As an IT guy it pains me to say that, but i love guns more). And while were at it, screw drama. You guys do you. Let everyone else whine and continue to suckle at googles teat.

Anonymous

@Karl: people make mistakes, don't fall into the drama queen mode, and never say never. when I hear "kill all germans"in your videos, I don't fall into anger and disappointment, but just grin. Or is the " I don't like German" really meant seriously? sometimes you can't be sure about that, but an ultimate "never ever" is always out of place. often it's all just for show. isnt it more important that we enjoy and like what you and ian do? :-)

InRangeTV

I will not allow people to make such statements uncontested. If defending oneself against libel is being a drama queen, then so be it. Thankfully it has come to a reasonable conclusion and understanding.

Anonymous

@Karl: with "don't fall into" i do not mean "you are". it's your right to defend yourself! But one often sees that Youtuber likes to get entangled in mutual disputes. what i'm saying is: you can trust your viewers to understand the context.