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Episode 344: The Labour Files (Patreon)

Published:
2024-01-04 14:17:49
Edited:
2024-03-05 17:32:44
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Content

We’re joined by Richard Sanders, one of the producers of the Labour Files, to talk about about the leaks, the famous Labour antisemitism crisis, and the rise of Keir Starmer.

Watch The Labour Files Part 2: The Crisis 

All parts of The Labour Files 

Files

Comments

Roarschach_Muckracken

Always makes the work morning better 🤙🏼🙏🏼🖖🏼. Question for all 3 members of the band. What is Music ?

Jack

it’s chursday innit

NYCM&AHole

When are you going to do something on the British ruling class called the paedo-files?

Blank

Holding out for the MMORPG version of the board game

Michael S. Judge

Well it's a bittersweet chimpanzee down in hell Because I tried to make him fight a Bully XL

Blank

TRANCHE

Blank

I think it’s true and interesting that (contrary to Labour) establishment Dems don’t court their voters by distinguishing themselves as less left than their progressive challengers. Instead their primary attacks are: (1) cynical deployment of identity politics to claim (falsely) they are *more* left on race and gender; and (2) obfuscation of any policy differences. Seems to me those strategies are less available in the UK given (1) lower salience of non-class-informed identity politics, and (2) greater focus of campaigns on policy platforms/differences rather than personalities

MoldyTolge

I really should’ve put money down on Rishi for the PM selection

NYCM&AHole
>>126128438

They’re worried that the gambling addicted nation is going to do a dogfighting match of a bully XL vs English bulldog

MoldyTolge
>>126129957

Individual Dems are encouraged, if anything, to develop individual political brands, while the individual candidate is pretty powerless in the face of the party in the UK.

NYCM&AHole
>>126128438

PS have you variac’d an amp ever? I was watching James Santiago from Universal Audio discuss the ‘68 super lead pedal.

fen
>>126127485

it’s about the notes u don’t play

Roarschach_Muckracken

“…had very good sense to record the interview …”

Hank Piper

Former Labyrinth Books staff member here thanks for the Labyrinth shout-out! Just made my day. I got fired 3 months ago essentially as retaliation for organizing lol, but am about to start a union organizing position in the evil Washington DC - take that suckas. I thought you would be interested to know that the owner of the store, Dorothea Von Moltke, is descended from German royalty (great great great ?granddaughter of Helmuth Von Moltke the Younger who commanded the German Army at the outbreak of WWI) and has a brother (or cousin?) who is a senior exec at Deutsche Bank 👀. Also, just want to clarify, a supermajority of the staff has signed authorization cards but the owners have elected not to voluntarily recognize the union so a vote is being held Jan. 26th. Not out of the woods just yet. But echoing what Liz said tho: if you are a TA listener and want to show support please drop by the store (it is a really good store) as staff will really need it in the weeks to come.

Will Lickley

So many of the strangest cranks and crusty weirdos always go on about the Labour Files. A mixture of the left itself and centrists and right wingers have done such a fantastic job of portraying it as some tin hat stuff. When centrists can rattle on about Russian interference around brexit while all the media class pat themselves on the back. Got to admit the rehashing of old arguments did always seem impractical when Tory rule (and New Labour tighten of Neoliberal politics) has left the UK in a really desperate situation, but Richard speaks so well about how bloody mad it all was. I think so many on the left have just had to actively forget how bullshit the Corbyn era media and politics were because otherwise we would go fucking mental.

Parker Slingscock

I saw a lot of people on Twitter saying your game was bit “Reddit” and while I agree, I think they are forgetting how much money Redditors will throw at shit like this

Tommy Hegarty

Was up in Princeton for the holidays and I always visit Labyrinth when I'm in town. Went in on the day after the vote and everyone was wearing their union shirts+pins, talked to a few of the workers about it and they all seemed super excited about their future. I second Liz's opinion here -- cool store, good books, wonderful+helpful people!

KB

Just bought some books from Labyrinth after listening ☺️ thx

snaxelbas

when the bbc photoshopped jezza's head to voldemort i felt alive! mask off

Tatsu123

“The dog that crackheads have” is NASTY work.

Catherine Hutchinson

Joined Labour for Corbyn in 2015 and this has been my story. Great interview, totally on point questions and comments. The link between derailing Corbyn and destroying Gaza with impunity is real. Thank you for this one guys.

Mark Patsy

Bully XL mention in the first 30 seconds? Am I listening to TrashFuture?

Victor Williams

Very diplomatic response around the 25 minute mark haha

Lucy Kaminsky

You can’t acknowledge the genocide because of Britains involvement in the occupation and the inherent antisemitism in “giving” the Jews Palestine to continue to rid Europe of the presence of Jews

Lucy Kaminsky
>>126140979

Britain has literally being involved in the occupation and genocide from the very start

Robert

Wait, I thought this was a board game podcast?

Øystein Monsen

The British left was unable to respond appropriately to charges of anti-Semitism in part due to the doctrine - extremely popular at the time, less so now - of radical standpoint theory. What standpoint theory addresses is, quite reasonably, that the less powerful party (minorities, women etc) has a better access to the workings of power relations in which theyre involved than the more powerful party. In its radical manifestation, this calls for exclusive epistemic privileging of those voices ("believe women" could be and sometimes was read this way). What this meant was that once a majority of British jewry perceived that Labour was anti-Semitic, there *had* to be something to it - and more-over, objecting to this framework is in itself anti-Semitic because this epistemic centering is at the heart of the doctrine. I suspect that the fading away of MeToo and its role in Corbyn's banishment have discredited it on the down-low for now, but it's very possible that it's going to re-emerge at some point.

Blank
>>126146199

Agreed this is key, also a key part of the Democratic left/progressive wing’s difficulty responding to establishment Dems’ race/gender-based ‘criticisms’

Dyana Prewitt

Whenever I read about the tactics used to discredit the Corbyn coalition (in the video series there was discussion of “the spitting incident”), I’m reminded of the 2016 Dem primaries, the Bernie campaign, and the infamous “chair throwing incident” in Nevada. The tactics used in the U.K. mirror those used in the U.S. and both remind me of the Israeli Team Jorge election rigging black ops https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/security-aviation/2022-11-16/ty-article-static-ext/the-israelis-destabilizing-democracy-and-disrupting-elections-worldwide/00000186-461e-d80f-abff-6e9e08b10000

K H

It should be legal to kill someone that kills your dog for any reason. For that one thing.

K H
>>126140979

It is absurdly ironic that the most antisemitic countries created Israel because they literally could not accept allowing Jewish refugees to resettle in the European countries from which they were displaced. Not only that but they killed the people who were living peaceably with Jewish people to do it. I do think we are seeing the same depletion of the word antisemitism as occured to socialism and communism.

K H

I really take issue with this guy entertaining there is antisemitism on the left. No there is not. Maybe the UK left is way different, but there is 0 antisemitism on the left stateside. It is actually kind of insufferably the opposite when you make a joke and someone tries to give you the 3rd degree "oh wat dO u men by thAt?" The only antisemitism is on the right. The left does not even have mechanisms to have any practical antisemitic policy. There is no prohibition on religion, religious expression, sexual expression, or even a way to politely assess if someone has a cock or not, let alone if they are descdendants of the circumsized tribe. There is no antisemitism that defines the left. It does not exist. If you were antisemitic why would you not just get the pure shit from the right?

K H
>>126127485

It's a funked up white boy called ms. Thang

K H
>>126150588

Interesting, but please summarize the content on the other side of link.

Nathaniel Weiner

If I hear the word Tranche without ping pong delay I have a panic attack

John Reeves
>>126140979

"It really sucks that y'all got pogrom'd out of your homes but... since you're out already, how about you go over there".

Ian Woods

Just a little funny anecdote. I once worked with a guy who told me he'd easily survive a zombie apocalypse because his brother was the leader of the Grimsby EDL

Jasmine Matthews
>>126162311

There's absolutely some anti-semetic cranks in the UK left and I'd be surprised if the US didn't have some of that strain too. it's not paticularly common but people being bigoted against entire groups of people because of lies they've been fed does happen like

K H
>>126162311

Antisemitic how? Can you give a specific example of what you saw or heard?

Lanabanana

Wait why is this far-right podcast supporting Corbyn?

CJ

Good energy with this guy, this is a good one lads 👏

Marcus

Those two little old ladies seemed so sweet. The BBC should be put on trial.

JB
>>126173571

The "horseshoe" theory that also equates Communism with Fascism. Did you know that Corbyn is also a Muslim Fascist?

JB
>>126146199

Israel/NYT coverage of October 7 "rapes" should permanently discredit any accusations of rape that is not accompanied by ample ample factual evidence.

Simon

I will never trust again, I saw the liberals, politicians and journalist side with conservatives and dump the lower classes out of politics. They should face losing everything the have freedom, money, skin etc. I love the BBC so much, good stuff, no adverts, but I will not be going back to paying them the licence fee, their news desk, is propaganda.

Jonathan Flowers

Can you save me a game until i get my tax return

Øystein Monsen
>>126146199

There will be enough counterexamples with less political baggage that this probably isn't going to happen. The police clearance rates for sex crimes are horrifically low, and conviction rates even lower. I think it's too useful for a movement built around individual liberation to stay dead for very long, but we'll see.

malpertuis

Excellent episode. Bangers & mash sustenance level.

malpertuis
>>126155569

In the old Zoroaster religion you got whipped for killing someone's house dog.

Noah Mingus

I'm going to play riders of the storm as I play the board game, if I can get my clammy palms on one 👍

Nick

This guy’s accent and cadence are beautiful. I could listen to him all day. Maybe I’m just BBC-pilled

Gordon Schmidt

I remember I was watching all this very closely from America. Corbyn's victories inspired me. I even did my undergrad senior thesis on Militant's turn in the Liverpool City Council. Going over what happened is very painful, but it's reminded me of the very important lesson I've learned from all this- no mercy for these people.

Blank

lol love the board game ad on chapo - you both are delightful (also produced by YC?)

K Money

I don't want a boardgame. Where are my TrueAnon branded supplements and fish antibiotics?

rafy hay

No need to wait 30 years for university students to do their theses on this - my sister's boyfriend Jacob is doing his thesis at Birkbeck on the Labour antisemitism hoax.

JV

thank you for this, amazing essential episodes

Baked B

Bring this British fuck on again I need his diabolical accent to continue speaking scathingly about things

AbsenteeUncle

Keir Starmer legionnaire?? Starm trooper is right there

Jack Gude

It’s really striking how similar the overall picture of politics in Britain and America resemble one another. The right is totally united but has no plan. The left had one guy who was attacked relentlessly in the media. Assassinated in the court of public opinion. Now the corpse the “left” is led by this guy everybody hates but they’re guaranteed to win… and do nothing with the win. The left is generally divided by infighting and entirely too generous to their opponents. When will leftist political leaders realize that it’s not sufficient to simply hold the most rationally and morally defensible positions? You still have to actually win. Seems like there’s a problem where you have to be in politics for a long time to even get to a position where you are allowed to make an argument but if you’re the type of person who would ever make an impassioned argument you’re immediately barred from politics.

Seth White

Will y’all ever consider doing an episode on Katrina? Also, great interview! I just started part one of the Labour Files.

Ryan Ford
>>126438630

I was recently relistening to the 9/11 series and they mention it, I was thinking the same thing. Long overdue!

Preetholt

This was great - we have no functioning media in the UK so always appreciate someone, somewhere in the world, doing the work.

Kevin Price

I love labyrinth books!! Went there so many times when I was a kid. Going to pay them a visit soon

Daniel Goffe

Such a brilliant episode. Thank you so much for doing this, it’s invaluable work ✊🏻🚩