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Episode 330: Grief Is A Witch-Hag (Part 1) (Patreon)

Published:
2023-11-02 13:25:34
Edited:
2024-03-05 17:29:32
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Content

We visited legendary writer William T. Vollmann (Rainbow Stories, Europe Central) in his Sacramento studio for a long talk about lots of things. Part one of two. 

Read his new essay “Four Men” in Harper’s

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Comments

Kevin Price

Yessssssssssssssssssss

Karen Agena

Between William T. Vollmann and Norman Finkelstein I’m really enjoying these long talks ♥️

Dennis Schmidt

I bought “You Bright and Risen Angels” due to Brace’s admiration of Vollman. Haven’t read it yet. Should I start today?

CE

VOLLMANN?!? What a get!

Adam Ross

big deal, is he in your groupchat?

dam

Ohhh shit I was still waiting for ratner pt2. I never got a notification and had no idea it was posted. Now I got double trueanon to listen to while I get ripped off at work

Danny Houtz

Holy shit, excited to listen to this one!

Matt Pierce

Brace, whats your favorite Crews? He was huge in my undergraduate writing program. I was a huge fan of A Childhood, but I haven't read his novels very widely.

Alexander Johnson

Yeessss, so excited for this. "The Blue Yonder: A Tale of Cleanliness" is my favorite contemporary short story & his book on climate change is stellar (though despair-inducing).

Hal Warren

Did you fess up about calling him a "real freak writer" Brace???

Mark Owen

I just read the ecoterrorism story in the latest Harper's and am going to read this one next...

Cameron Jones

Sactown baby, let’s go

Hal Warren
>>121260436

Okay, that article is a pretty puerile takedown written by a literary wannabe. Groups together some writers that have legitimate problems, but zeroes in on a tiny part of Vollmann's oeuvre.

TrueAnonPod
>>121260436

The articles goofy because it takes an obvious literary device (“we all know the story…”) and then acts as if it’s misreported journalism

Charlie M

As someone with OCD, "entertaining that I am evil" and accepting I may in fact be is a major part of managing it and not being tortured daily. Vollman talking about this as a form of hope and not despair is very human and helps me put the strangeness of being human into perspective lol thank you this was really great to listen to

Jake MacLennan

I really loved this. Hadn’t heard of Vollmann before but now I’m incredibly interested in reading his works. Great interview Brace and Liz!

Johan Stefonski

The man nearly died right before your meeting. Black magic at work man. Very disconcerting.

Joey

Amazing, thank you. Happy that brace got to spend time w vollmann

Racing for Tips

What a great conversation. It's stories like these that crack a jaded heart and extract the emotion waiting inside

Simon

Looking forward to this. The Dying Grass had a big effect on me along with a bunch of others.

Simon
>>121260436

Fair enough if you can't swing with the prose, but Dolan (and I like him a lot) misses the mark by grouping Vollmann in with those other writers. Completely different ballgame. And having read a bit of Vollmann's stuff I don't recognize much of what Dolan is saying about his character. Poor People is beautiful in its compassion.

Hal Warren
>>121260436

Also, unless I'm missing something, that article isn't written by Dolan. Unless Ramon Glazov is an alter-ego. But the gripes are similar and entirely that of a failed fiction writer.

K H
>>121260436

You're saying he isn't a nuclear physicist? I'm shocked. U deboonked this one good. Good job buddy

Robert Ditty

I have the same eye thing as William Vollman where I naturally only see through one eye at a time. To my understanding it happens because my eye lenses are shaped differently. Individually I see through one eye fine but if I look through both at the same time, my vision gets blurred. As a child my brain compensated for this by only focusing my vision in one eye at a time. The result is the eye not being used would appear to be lazy and go crossed. Although my parents caught it early and it can be compensated for with corrective lenses (I got my first pair of glasses at 3), I have never been able to drive a nail in straight either. I just always assumed it was because I was a clumsy mofo or an effete nerd but William gave me a little bit of sympathy for myself. I have literally never heard anyone else talk about having it.

sammi sweetheart

Followed instructions and read the essay first. Thank you for encouraging me to do so. I will be checking out his works that you mentioned in the intro. Can’t wait to hear this conversation though, so here I go.

K H

I don't think a meth addict and business man are really comparable. The meth addict's desire is unadulterated if perverted and is pursued unto death. The business fiend's desire is a farce laid onto the void of their being and they pathologically avoid ANY harm to themself. The business fiend seeks a legacy of themselves as they are in that moment projected into infinity, which is impossible. The past and future has things for which we have no names and if we saw we would not understand because they are not for us. The void at the pit of the fiend which fuels them is desire for total stasis where their identity is remains cogent and intact as they understand it, and that is universal death. The meth head is more honest in what they want both with others and themselves than the bussiness fiends ever could be.

CAt Birds

Thanks so much for doing this episode. I love this writer.

Amter plain

I have a new favorite episode

Graham Hoese

I can't put all of the thoughts I had listening to this into a comment and it's probably not important to, but this interview really touched me in a meaningful way. I met with my mother for lunch today and shared with her some of the stuff talked about here. Thanks for this episode, probably my favorite interview yet.

Jason Rand

What a fascinating man. I’m ashamed to say I had never heard of him before, but now I must read some of his work.

Brian

This style is called an ethnography. Many modern anthropologists do this same thing and have been for decades

Phillip Harris

This guy is 100 percent real

Nicholas

Was the Mark he referred to Mark Laita of Soft White Underbelly?

Sean Ogilvy

No way we got Billiam on the pod? I’m gonna crumb multiple times

Katie

Oh fuck yes!!! I have never hit play so fast

KS

RIP Lisa

J Fitz

What a great interview. I’ve been a Vollmann devotee since The Royal Family and have had the chance to meet and talk to him a couple of times. Living legend.

Hotsaucebob

This was really great. I especially appreciated his thoughts on grief and trying to support loved ones in addiction and homelessness. We just lost my younger sibling to meth addiction in August and I have been so appreciative for the ways you have shared both personal experience and the broader political systems that have birthed the world of drugs we now have. Thank you Brace and Liz

K H

The dirtbags are matriculating into legitimate structures. The arc of the universe bends towards the Dirtbag(and also Liz who is tidy(despite problematic off mic comments about the Polish)).

KS
>>121288743

I would guess yes b/c they did a book about snakes together ten yrs ago

Robert
>>121287063

I believe all the recordings are available online. Is it the library of congress? Or national archive? Something like that. I ran across it like 10 years ago.

Marcus

This is the coolest man alive.

Brian
>>121287063

I’d have to go through my school books to tell you specific ones that ive read

tubularballs

is there still an rss feed or whatever it's called

Noelle

Oxford mississippi mentioned 😎

Timothy

Bill asking Liz the hard questions!

Cleopatra

holy shit i cannot believe y’all interviewed vollman, i’m about to have the best train ride home ever

Kate Baldwin

This man is fascinating. Amazing interview y'all!

Kate Baldwin

What books should I start with if I've never read him?

Unelectable Airwaves

I inexplicably read Imperial cover to cover when it came out. I forget why; I wasn’t into farming or the border or droughts or anything. I must’ve been reading a lot of McSweeny’s the time. Anyway, to this day I occasionally brag to mfs how much I know about the inland empire’s crops & shit.

Once_Royal

Excellent ep. Brace consistently asked questions I didn't know I wanted the answers to, and Liz consistently asked questions that were burning at the tip of my tongue. And as always, YC killing it in every backstage dimension one could consider. Really great work, guys.

Doug Cartel

VIRGIN AMERICAN: You know, when you think about it, we're all homeless in some way CHAD GASPESIAN DISSING THE FRENCH: My home is everywhere you dumb frog

TangiePower
>>121304152

Yea, you should be able to go to TrueAnon’s main page, click the three dots in the upper right hand corner and the link to RSS feed is there - at least it is for me.

Ben
>>121320570

The rainbow stories or Europe central if you’re not averse to big books

Ben
>>121288743

I was wondering the same thing, that would be a crazy crossover if true

Ben

I love the rainbow stories and Europe central so this is such an amazing treat—you guys are on fire with Dr Finkelstein one day and Vollmann the next.

cagey eye

who are Liz’s favorite authors?

Tom Allen
>>121304152

There seems to be some delay between the Patreon update and the RSS feed.

tubularballs
>>121304152

is is through Acast? that doesn't work on my old phone. i don't have the three dots but there's an rss feed option that takes me to "Acast" but it won't load. browser also isn't compatible. i used to use "castro" but it doesn't show up there anymore.

Mark Owen
>>121257686

Think it was better reading it first but it's hard to say. Fantastic interview.

Chris
>>121287063

Oh cool. The big knower of things they think only they know about HAS LOGGED THE FUCK ON. Thank god.

Antipaganda

One thing the Christians got right is trying to spread that second kind of pity. Which is a kind of love. It's a shame so many people mistake the first for the second.

Antipaganda

The essay is brilliant btw.

Joyce Hoffman

Vollmann was one of the best speakers yet! Congrats for highlighting him.

Alex Leo Swenson

Definitely read the piece first, it's full of a lot of deep sadness that hits hard on a cold November day and this interview provides a bit of cozy comfort afterwards.

used to be steve

Is anyone else hearing "loco-motion" in that piano riff?

izzy

grew up wandering alkali flats before it was viciously gentrified. my mom worked at the adult shop he talks about when i was a child. don’t often get to hear or interact w anyone who speaks fondly of the area or the homeless pop here. a lot of wicked vagrants with great stories to share.

buttface

true anon is a true zeitgeist podcast in the best sense of the word

Angus Ash

i always wanted to do an 'as a...' comment, so, As an 'indoor person' who has a long experience with addiction in my family and a homeless family member, just wanted to say holy shit i am glad that i actually read the article for once and i immediately sent it to my mom. thanks for this one guys, for real

xXEvangelXx .

As someone who is naturally sorta lame, I love how much cool stuff this podcast winds up exposing you to incidentally. Some of these one off episodes are my favorite.

Billie Grey Heck

Holy shit the new theme is 🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥

Eric Gilbertson
>>121320570

The Atlas or The Ice-Shirt are also excellent books on the shorter side. The Atlas for journalistic essays, and the Ice-Shirt as an introduction to the 7 dreams approach to European-Indigenous American contact.

Eric Gilbertson
>>121320570

My favorite of his is Argall: The true Story of Captain John Smith and Pocohontas. Europe Central is excellent, but looks into evil more safely further away, instead of at the heart of America. It was too uncomfortable to receive the media attention and awards (which both deserve).

Pelican Grief

I needed this. Thanks, guys.

malpertuis

Wow. This feels the most intimate our hosts have ever let us get with them.

malpertuis
>>121474142

I kept imagining his place looking like this old militaria shop I used to haunt in Petaluma, looking through tons of old photos as the owner and his friends talked about the world and good & evil.

Roger Peet

Very sweet and warm. Thanks.

Samwell Ganges

That was just an all around great interview. Thanks guys.

Marley

Sactown !!!! I live BLOCKS away from this man. Although I know I never will, I will be scanning every street and establishment in the hopes of crossing paths with him one day. Love this ep guys. As a Northern California native, getting to recognize all the towns discussed gets me absolutely juiced

bbbbb

Hey Brace. Have you read Close to The Knives by David Wojnarowicz? It's hard to describe, but it seems like him Vollmann have a similar ability to look at the ugliest parts of America without flinching. Wojnarowicz's context is being HIV positive in the 80s. Possibly the angriest book I've ever read. The prose is white hot. Kinda sexy too.

Eric
>>121255230

Coincidentally I’m in the middle of The Gospel Singer. Rarely do books make me feel this uneasy, but totally engaged at the same time.

Grenadine Vetch

Wow, beautiful interview just dripping with wisdom. Liz, I am struck by what u said about how we all die alone but share in that very profound truth- great episode. Thanks

David Corgard

Oprah has enough money she could have single handedly fixed the issue, she has no right to 'bring attention' to the issue, especially when anyone with basic knowledge knows what happens when someone points out people helping the homeless. We even had some guy here in Minnesota who would buy syringes and dump them at homeless encampments and call the media to show them all over the ground... it's been going in for a while. Not sure he even stopped doing it after being caught. And you do NOT want to be homeless in MN during winter... we have a lot of people freeze to death each year. We don't need to make it harder on these peole - that's right, they're PEOPLE, HUMAN BEINGS - let's treat them as such. Capitalism has a NEED for homelessness to create an aura of fear among the populous for several reasons... the problem could easily be solved and it would cost less money than keeping them homeless... Edits: Typos

Amy Immermann

I joined your Patreon finally because of this podcast this guy you interviewed. My husband died many years ago of lung cancer, and he would’ve loved this guy of what he was saying his writings the whole thing. It really got me in touch with a lot of feelings about a lot of things because I was one of those dumb naïve people. :-). I’m old but I would really like to jump a train. They go pretty slow where I live I am tempted.

Jacob Jenson

I like this guy. No elaboration, he’s a great guy, truly incredible perspective.