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Episode 311: Actuarial Nightmares (Patreon)

Published:
2023-08-10 14:02:34
Edited:
2024-03-05 17:07:53
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We talk with our ol’ friend Jathan Sadowski about regimes of actuarial governance, AKA The Insurance Industry; how highly financialized insurance products have come to have such power over our lives and what new capacities technologies and networked devices are unlocking in the Insurance Industry’s quest to capture more and more value.

Total life insurance: Logics of anticipatory control and actuarial governance in insurance technology by Jathan Sadowski

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Comments

Jack

:)

Ricardo

:)

badopinionhaver

How do Americans just accept this nonsense? What's worse is they try to export it to Canada and the UK ...

T S
>>114913072

Lots of pro-capital propaganda. Keep in mind the average Americans knowledge of any given topic typically doesn’t exceed the stuff they teach in school

Parker Slingscock

Haven’t listened all the way through yet, but I work as an insurance rep and it’s insane the amount info they have on pretty much everyone

Mark Patsy

mfs out here named Jathan

dam

If there's no rap/rock/reggae in episode 311 I'm unsubscribing

AD

Yes this is my weird beef

Racing for Tips

Liz buying car insurance?! Liz bought a CAR?!

Jonathan Wolff

Actuary here and I’ll take any mention of us in pop culture. I don’t work in health insurance, personal auto, or home insurance so please don’t yell at me.

Isaac Walton

Melbourne local here, nearly spit out my coffee when Brace namedropped Warragul, a town which no American should know about. You guys should do an episode about Rupert Murdoch or something so Brace has an excuse to do his terrible accent.

ggmacd

can confirm Australia is warm Canada, and unfortunately have to tell you that Canada is also obsessed with some unimportant battle in WWI. Canadian nationalists have been trying forever to propagandize that Canada was somehow the best at doing WWI stuff and that's when Canada really "became a country." From what I can tell, a million canadians went on a euro-trip where strangers at home became best buds abroad, and the simple folk mistook europeans patting them on the head as real praise and then took it home with them to put in the history books.

sir peepus

Lol gay jason

Svid

An episode on the airlines and now insurance? Follow this up with an ep on the secrets of the supermarket and this will go down as your npr phase

Ian H

Let's say that SWIM was on the culinary team that opened the first hotel location of a chain owned by a flamboyant foreign billionaire who goes windsurfing with Obama. Let's also say that a different branch of that billionaire's family of companies made a fitbit clone, the "Maiden Heartbeat". Would you believe that everyone, from HR to dishwashers and housekeepers, was given one of these devices and required to enroll in a panopticon-style social media portal in which you could see other employees' stats, and there was also a company-wide step count competition with teams, a leaderboard, and unspecified prizes? Or that we eventually figured out that standing on the train while vigorously doing the jackoff motion logged steps? Or that the eventual prize for members of the top team turned out to be $20 Target gift cards?

Otto Laakso

Now that TrueAnon is turning into Odd Lots, is Odd Lots going to turn into TrueAnon? Will Joe Weisenthal start embracing the teachings of the Great Helmsman?

SF

I know you guys tend not to do “topical” episodes about whatever’s in the news this week, but with the Imran Khan news I’d definitely appreciate an episode on Pakistan at some point.

Robert Sayre

Google for "Chinese phone cradle for boosting your phone's daily step count."

Parker Slingscock
>>114915001

So pretty much all insurance companies “talk” by sharing client medical information with each other, and before working here I thought it was like to the extent of like verifying with your doctor of any health issues, but no they know like pretty much every prescription/medicine you’ve ever gotten, when you got it, where, etc. and it’s just depressing to see someone be diagnosed with depression/PTSD at one point for them to only qualify for more expensive products. That’s just glimpse I’ve had into the health information systems my company has.

Mark Owen

Insider word is that reinsurance tech is pased on MS Word.

SillyMoose

For anyone else who watched a lot of Gilmore Girls as a teenager, this episode reminded me of the scene where Richard and Emily freak Luke and Lorelei out about insurance: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=nMUVpg-9Jmg&pp=ygUQTG9yZWxlaSBsdWtlIDMzMw%3D%3D

Shreddie

Best intro yet let’s go baby

cheer

we need a lil tay episode stat

Michael S. Judge

I would be healthier by an unimaginable degree if I'd just gone to hundreds of Katt Williams gigs in place of every fucking psychiatric appointment

Michael S. Judge
>>114913072

Because getting rid of this nonsense is the #1 thing that'll get you kneecapped by your "own" party in the US – unlimited empire would be #1, but there effectively IS no way to oppose that, and our political machinery consists entirely of corpse-eating war profiteers who sleep in cryogenic pods they bought with insurance and pharmaceutical money. We have absolutely no institutional or electoral way to stop any of this at all, and as Jathan mentions, Barack Obama made it infinitely worse by replacing a full-of-holes cowboy regime with a regime of coercive "participation." Both our parties – the moderate right one and the far-right one – will go to the fucking mattresses to keep us thus fuck-uck-ucked with a fervor and tenacity they cannot summon for a single other issue, save starting a popular war (and the odd bipartisan assassination)

Eric

my pet insurance went up to $80/mo this year, i’m paying them like $1k a year now for nothing but i know as soon as i cancel it my cat will get cancer or something :/

Anthony Kozera

Very disappointed in y’all… I was sure this episode was going to be about how 311 was the greatest band of all time

pzd

Back to back bangers

Fargle Wakko

I used to work in a call center and my job was managing life insurance policies for customers.. horrible horrible job

features creatures

Do we get an episode about water treatment plants next? Or how about paper manufacturing!

David LaFountain

Damn these companies now how often I delete and redownload tinder?

natfos 💌

two paywalled episodes in a row 😪 wow trueanon sold out....anyways hi fellow patrons

Mathieu Debic
>>114939642

are you implying these would be boring topics? i guess to each their own, but i for one would LOVE to hear these two talk about huge buildings dedicated to making bad smells

Ian Borsuk

Really appreciate Jathan being a listener! Very fun that they were able to reference other episodes and concepts.

Ian P

I’m happy to see Jathan as a guest again! I really like the 5G episode that you guys did with him.

Harrison Sanchez

I remember my trans man friend adjusting his insurance (australia) when he transitioned and updated - they let him keep his old rate but changed the gender stuff.

Brendan Garcia

Please do an episode on sports gambling. Very similar to insurance. Stochastic process.

Kenneth Smith

Love Jathan!! One of the only anarchists I take seriousoy

Brendan Garcia

Millennials don’t buy life insurance because all of the commercials are weird.

Mitch

In the middle of the ep my little rat brain is thinking can I get a lower auto insurance rate because i now ride my bike everywhere? But then what about the life insurance policy my wife wants me to get? Will they know that I ride a bicycle and charge me a crazy rate? But do laugh daily so maybe I can bring that up in negotiation. Wait, but you can't really negotiate? Oh no.

Zakir KH

This fucking guest was sick, good job Jaytron

Nick

I got fucked on an insurance issue this month. God bless 🙏

a dentist
>>114951860

They did a sports gambling ep a few months ago it was insane.

Racing for Tips
>>114920026

Incredible, now the real question is what is Liz driving? Real answer probably a used honda fit or a prius, but I like to imagine she has like a Jag XJS or something just slinking around private eye style.

Finn Langley

WE NEED THE WARRAGUL EPISODE, brace I'm begging, pleading. Or just do a Gough Whitlam episode I'll take either.

Sara Alexandra
>>114920834

Horrifically Warragul is a pumping metropolis compared to the Wake in Fright town

Juliette DeMaso

Guys, do a deep dive into Bamboo Health, NarxScare Scoring, PDMPs.. medical surveillance capital is the biggest invasion of privacy, loss of agency… possibly ever. And on top of that Big data is marrying everything from “connected fitness” and biometrics to all of this risk assessment/ pre-crime/ people scoring medical law enforcement partnership. Claudia Merandi at The Doctor Patient Forum is the premier resource on this sh-

SF

I once had to get rental insurance as part of a lease requirement so I went to my auto insurance because they had been my carrier for a long time and do bundles, and they denied me a rental insurance policy because…I’d never had a rental insurance policy before and was therefore a fraud risk (?!) I was like 26, so I was on my fourth-ish apartment, I wasn’t a newb to apartment leasing. Also, again, I was like 26, so the full value of everything I owned was probably like $2500

Antipaganda

Hey! We never got off the beach at Gallipoli, that's how much we love the fucken beach! Actually we make so much of a fuss about it because it was the moment Australia finally told its British masters to fuck off and do their own dying.

Joel

Great stuff. On the subject of the colonial shithole/US vassal state I live in, are you guys going to do an Australia episode, like about the Dismissal? Or just Warragul (lmao)? Because that would be fun listening

Sarah Yates
>>114980299

totally! i used to do some research on this- check out healthinjustice.org/copy-of-prescription-drug-monitoring for some good info

Rimbo Jackson

All these people willingly wearing Apple Watches and FitBits and shit. As if those fucks aren’t selling that data directly to insurance companies…

Ye

I’m an actuary hmu for special pricing

Veronika
>>114915001

I noticed this when I went to a recent dentist appointment and the assistant pulled up my file and asked if I was still taking celexa (SSRI) and paraguard (copper IUD). she said it gets pulled in from insurance somehow due to their enrollment in some software they use (Smile Generation) that you can't opt out of. it's pretty horrifying.

Randy Hendrickson

Liz looks so cray-see in the ep thumbnail.

Gulb

This shit is just so Phillip K. Dick style dystopian. Like my insurance company will be able to prevent my car from starting if I don't have their app soon or something.

Jessica Pintado de Bush

I’m buying the goddam gold plan because I have a child with a disability and it still doesn’t cover enough. Insurance companies are the biggest scammers. I could share plenty of stories!

Rohmer Simpson

I have [well known company] for my car insurance - the "black box" is no longer part of the program, it's all in your phone, on the app. This is the smartphone manufacturer's endgame - one of them, anyway: whenever a smaller company manufactures a doodad or a thingamabob, and Apple/Google tracks it as beneficial for them to incorporate its capabilities (biometrics, location, etc etc), AppleGoogle will either buy the lil company or cheeky reverse engineer those capabilities into the next gen of its phone or watch or what have you. Either move by the FAANG company leads to the same result: elimination of the threat to market share. (An exception will be, for ex, Google buys Fitbit but Fitbit still "exists" because that's the most profitable means for competing with the Apple Watch.) The auto insurance co's app absolutely tracks my speed, my braking, whether or not I'm using my phone while I'm supposed to be operating the vehicle, and the times of day I drive. For the first three, it's incredibly easy to avoid getting dinged (and yes of course they've game-ified the experience by sending you kudos or uh-uh spaghetti-o notifications if you do good or if you do bad) if you are not driving like a complete asshole. The speed metric is if you are going over 80 MPH, and not only that, but if you are doing so consistently. The braking is if you are Henry Hill and you almost rear end that guy - again, if this is normal driving behavior for you, you're literally on cocaine and seeing helicopters. Being on your phone, that's an open and shut case. Or is it? I deliver for DoorDash sometimes, and there've been plenty of times when I interact with my phone *stopped at a red light* and I get a lil ol demerit for it later that day. It isn't enough to trash my discount - but that was kind of a moot point because I switched carriers instead of renewing my policy and my premium got slashed in half, so long suckas. The "time of day" one ..... eh, I don't know. I've got mixed feelings about it because on the one hand, yeah, maybe you're coming home from the graveyard shift or heading out to one. But these are also the times of night when most of the worst collisions take place, and a lot of time it's because of people getting behind the wheel after last call at the bar. What neighborhood you're driving in? I don't think that's real. Rather, auto insurance premiums have always factored where you live - i.e. where you park your car. Not where you drive. Hope I'm not sounding like an insurance company bootlicker. Those pricks will never see the face of God. Just sharing my observations.

Michelle B

Great subject for an episode! So insurance in California - specifically homeowners with State Farm which I have - claimed to be about wildfires when I asked but once I dug around I found out that is largely bullshit. The people whose insurance has increased don't necessarily live in zones that are high fire risk. Mine went up by more than $500 this past year, which is supposed to be stopped by California's insurance commissioner that in theory is supposed to cap price increases (a battle between insurance commissioners and these agencies apparently is a big factor in certain companies leaving). They didn't actually cap anything - They are more of a validating and rubber stamping agency overall. The insurance commissioner claims it's because rates stayed flat during the pandemic, but after speaking to a bunch of different sources it seems the battle is largely about them being able to charge whatever they want in line with what the market rate of housing is, which has been going up astronomically here, doubling the "value" of houses in the past 6-8 years. Of course these values are completely out of line with the actual production value of any housing and are an absolute scam being perpetrated on younger generations largely being driven by corporate landlord purchases of single family homes and the states need for increase tax revenues.. The state keeps allowing the cost of houses to go up because they need tax dollars since they have created a pricing structure that is totally to the benefit of older people, capping their property tax rates based on the value of when they purchased their homes even if they are extremely wealthy. It shifts the tax burden for all public investment on to young people or new buyers. They also keep cutting taxes for businesses, giving them loopholes and passing out our tax dollars to corporations through idiotic incentive programs for "job creators". They've basically been trying to bribe industry to stay here despite these price increases. But it will fail specifically because of the cost of living, basically creating a circle that extracts more capital from working class people to benefit corporations who then will eventually leave whenever the handouts stop because it cost so much to pay workers to live in this area. In summary it's basically just a combination of trying to fight regulation. they view as unprofitable (whether or not that regulation actually helps... It's on principal) and being able to increase profits to line up with overvalued housing prices. I tried to both dispute the increase and to find another company who had more reasonable rates for insurance since I figured State Farm leaving the state and the giant rate hike must in some way be connected ... The new company sent out an inspector who took a photo of my house from the road and claimed I needed a new roof?! My roof was inspected when they installed solar panels a couple of years ago so the basis for this was already questionable. Roofers came out to look at it and said they saw no damage and the roof was not in need of repair. Even when I offered to get an official inspection report, they would not commit to this changing the third party assessors stance. So after quoting me a lower rate than State Farm by maybe $200 for less insurance coverage, they used this unsubstantiated claim to raise the deductible to $10,000... Definitely proving the point your guest was making about trying to put the ability to make claims out of reach for most people. The odds of damage getting done that is bad enough to warrant going above that number is so low. Not impossible... But definitely not the stuff that is most likely to happen. And if you want to talk about the dicest insurance of all on that front, definitely worth talking about California's earthquake insurance. Plans that cost a couple of thousand dollars a year but have deductibles that have gone from 60,000 up to 90 or 100,000 for a small single family home in the valley. The odds of someone being able to have the capital available to even make that payment seem low unless someone would let you borrow against the cost of a completely destroyed house - a thing you would have to have to make using that insurance makes sense. I don't know about other states, but the incredibly high insurance rates we are paying in CA don't cover one of our most likely hazards. Another interesting thing you guys could examine is the way lenders take out insurance on properties.. in that process at some point despite the fact that my property was never without insurance, my lender took out their own policy on my house without notifying me. You've really got to ask questions when stuff like that starts happening. It was a huge thing in 2008, I guess? I found out because I received a notification that they canceled the lender policy without ever being notified they took it out. It's extremely sketchy. On cars - I have only seen evidence to the contrary in terms of who gets charged more for car insurance. I have been charged more than men I was dating for car insurance literally every time I get it no matter what company I went with. I have never been in anything more than one $200 fender bender 8 years ago and both of the people who I previously dated who were getting charged less had been in legitimate accidents. We drove basically the same style of cars. Also, fun thing with American insurance companies in general... I have had multiple accounts where when I added my ex to an account that I had for 8+ years before they were added, the insurance company immediately put everything into the man's name as the primary and then I had to fight to get my policy to remain with me as opposed to being forced to break off a new one. And the life insurance - Only a scam if you don't have kids or a spouse. With the cost of housing and living and college, it's probably the only way young people will get out of debt ... And that's just hoping that parents didn't end up having to reverse mortgage their house to pay for health care needs like assisted living needs that are completely uncovered by American health insurance. If you don't have it, you basically are condemning your family to pay $15,000 to 80,000 upon your death to cover all of the costs on top of losing any income you were contributing. Yay capitalism.

Smallbusinessman
>>115061675

Was a dev for 2 major insurance companies for over 15 years. I dont think any of this is true for those 2 companies at least unless they have secret teams working on it and keeping it hidden from the rank and file devs.

Sneakaboard
>>115061675

Theyd never do something they didnt tell all the rank and file about first!

M Mmd

Brace, this was, in fact, my favorite cold open. Bring back WAAZZZZZAAAHHHHHHP

Jed Levin

A lot of mansplaining from Liz this episode. I don’t want to add up how much we spend on insurance!

Jed Levin

I just deleted the insurance company app on my phone…

Killa Bea Arthur

I always pictured brace living in a room with out a window can't see out.

Aaron Slater

Not related: saw a fellow gumshoe in the wild ❤️

Sean Marshall

I worked at a place where they made you get an electric toothbrush through the dental insurance that monitored how long you brush your teeth Etc.

Michelle

It's always a thrill when Brace mentions Warragul ❤️

Brian Ward

If brace ever visited Ireland he would 100% bring head calipers

Philipp K

"More and more"

MojoMan

Are Brave and Liz supporting the idea that “Insurance” is a huge grift, casino backed by insufficient funds to pay off claims

A.S.
>>115151271

Dude SAMMMEE I overheard a convo from this girl talking about the subway ep 😂 such a funny feeling from a TrueAnon comrade

kado
>>114920026

Tesla, the plot twist is that she isn't driving.

David Corgard
>>115205977

WTF! How dystopia! Dental insurance isn't even that much, for me in the US it's around $6/paycheck, so about $144 per year...

David Corgard
>>115076716

This is one of many reasons we need Socialism >> Communism... but for now, at the very, very, very least nationalize insurance companies and have it actually cover everything... Millenials, Zoomers, and the next generation that I hope will be called the Alpha generation, are completely fvcked! We need to save our next generation's chances of survival... give them a better life, society, and world than we currently have. Capitalism needs to GO, NOW, or humanity will near completely parish... It is time to arise together, Comrades!