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RESULTS: Money & Creativity Survey!! (Patreon)

Published:
2021-02-09 15:29:56
Imported:
2021-08

Content

Hey everyone! As the Form has been mostly stagnant the last few days, I figured it was time to share the results of our community poll surrounding money and creativity.

First things first, I want to recognize the creativity in some of these answers (especially the first one!). There's a lot of nuance to be had in, "do you work in a creative capacity or field?" 

And I looooooooved the responses. Special shout-out to answers like:
"I'm a stay at home mom, I have to get creative sometimes...I just don't get paid for it!"
"Programming is puzzle art."
"...I'm a teacher so I'm always creating materials and curriculum-based resources..."

It's really fun to see how our creativity manifests itself in "non-traditional" ways or in jobs that people don't often think of as creative. Back in my corporate days, I liked to think of myself as an Excel Wizard and that definitely lended itself to creating and putting my personal touch on things!

☀️☀️☀️

These next two questions, when placed side by side (so not how they were in the survey bahaha) are really interesting to me!

For me personally, it's been a really interesting transition from writing & YouTube being my reprieve or escape when work wasn't going well....to suddenly YouTube & writing being the work and needing to find a new escape. (Though 99.7% of the time I'm exceptionally happy and feel so lucky that's my dynamic now!)

It's also really cool to see that while the majority of us do hope to make some money from our writing someday (and I see y'all who haven't decided or don't want that!), there's a more vocal/larger minority who don't necessarily want (or don't know if they want) that to be their entire income.

I think that really speaks to the complexity of what an ideal work-life balance is!

(Also the graph below is for how many of us are currently making over 50% of our income from our art, no matter what that income is.)

☀️☀️☀️

And for the answer I'm most surprised by, it has to be just how comfortable most of y'all are with sharing money and earnings in relation to creative prospects. (I'm a huge advocate for sharing as much information as possible in these instances, but it's taken me a while to get comfortable with that!!!)

If you wouldn't mind, PLEASE comment down below with some extra insight as to why you selected the number you did! 💙💚 I still need to dig deeper into the data to see if 4 and 5 remain the most popular answer for those already making most of their money from their art.

As a personal anecdote, it's really interesting to see the difference in my corporate days vs. now, in terms of how openly people talk about money. Within the arts, I've found that it can be hard to talk about money when you're not making a whole lot (though there's a camaraderie in that group!) but it's harder even to talk about when you start making money. (Now you have friends that are also artists but haven't managed to "break out" yet or haven't had their first sale yet, etc.)

Compared to my corporate days, where it seems the higher up you get, the more comfortable you feel talking about the income you're earning. Has this been anyone else's experience?? 

(Also worth noting how companies, in the U.S. at least, tend to shame you out of talking about your salary to colleagues!! I think this also bleeds over into talking about it within your field, even at different companies, sometimes too. This really only helps the companies and not the people!)

☀️☀️☀️

Lastly, it was SO INCREDIBLY COOL to see how many awesome creative hobbies and passions we all have! The list is HUGE but it was so fun seeing the numerous DnD players, the person with the YouTube channel talking about fountain pens and ink, all of the cross-stitchers, the digital drawers, those that love origami and gardening and baking and playing the ukulele! Thank you so much for sharing your passions with me, it has been so heart-warming and inspiring to read through the list!

Besides the extra insight on talking about money openly or sharing figures, PLEASE ALSO comment down below if you have any extra questions or comments. Thank you all again so much for filling out the survey, I appreciate it!!

Comments

Anonymous

This community is so fun 🤩

Zara Hoffman

I selected 4 because I think sharing numbers helps people (kind of like the website Glassdoor and the reason women should discuss money so they can get what they’re worth). I didn’t select 5 because I’m a little ashamed of my numbers right now.

Anonymous

I selected 5 because just like you said, I'm in corporate right now in a decently high bracket, and I think it can be really important to share money info in the corporate world so I try to be really transparent myself. I'm interested in transitioning to making money from creative works more & more and seeing other people's numbers really helps me plan for the future. Being transparent about my own numbers in creative work eventually will help pass the usefulness on!

katecavanaugh
>>53255832

Thank you so much for the context, Zara!!!! I definitely think, in my most ideal times, I'd say "5" because I genuinely believe we need to share and that it can only help (especially when we give lots of context). But definitely have been feeling more like a 3 or 4 for a while. Admittedly, this is with arts people. When non-arts people ask me what I make now (especially friends from my corporate days), my actual feelings are like a 1 or a 2. It's weird because I'm super proud of starting my own business and working for myself, but also acknowledge that I make significantly less than I used to (and people are judge-y bahaha).

Anonymous

I selected 4 because I am very comfortable sharing my income with this community but not so much with people of older generations or who value older ways of working. I don’t make a lot, and I know I won’t measure up to people who value that. But I’ve often found that my generation and younger are happy/see the value of me doing what I love though I don’t make a lot.

katecavanaugh
>>53256198

ABSOLUTELY!!! :) It's easier for me to share when I reframe it as "helping a Future Me" or helping a future artist or helping a future Corporate Ladder Climber or what I wish someone would've told me. :)

katecavanaugh
>>53256376

OKAY YES SAME. My number is situational. With millennial and younger, I'm much more comfortable sharing than like, with my parents nosy friends bahaha.

Juniper Woodbury

I selected 5. I learned from working at a big agency that I needed to talk about salary with other junior staff in order to make sure we were all being paid fairly (it turns out we were not!). Now I think it’s super important, and I hope I keep up the openness throughout my career.

Anja Kuemski

I selected 4, because I do not know how helpful it would be. I live in Germany and my clients are mostly from Germany and the US. Prices for ghost writing and translation always need to be put into relation of average living costs and competition from "cheaper" countries plays into all those considerations.

Anonymous

Personally, I’d really love to make money off of my writing, but I don’t plan to be a professional writer. I chose a 5 because I’ve feel like talking about money should be normalized. If we don’t know what is average, we can be cheated and not even know it. For women and members of marginalized groups, I think it’s really important to make sure you are being paid fairly for your work.

Anonymous

I don't remember which number I picked, but in my writing bubble which includes quite a few published authors, it still feels kinda weird to talk about how much money we make with book sales. I like that there's information available about how much it costs to self-publish your book though! On the other hand, I'm also a freelance translator & it's really common for us to compare rates as we negotiate them with different clients bc translation (especially literary/comic/videogames) is notoriously underpaid. So we try to protect ourselves by sharing openly how much we get & which clients offer fair rates. It feels pretty different from writing or other creative fields!

Anonymous

I selected a 5 for the money discussion comfort question. I am part of the corporate world in a creative capacity and I've actively wanted to shift towards destigmatizing discussing money. Not only does it help people understand their value, it allows them a better view of their pay potential over time. I personally have not experienced a feeling of increased comfort in discussing as my pay increased but I can understand people feeling that way. As an event planner who has worked non-profit, government, and corporate, I have seen the scale of pay in the field and experienced vastly different salaries. Because people were willing to discuss money and opportunities, I was able to pivot in the market in a way that was beneficial for me over time. I recently switched out of that role after almost a decade in the event management field, but I still feel comfortable discussing money as a professional creative because I think it's a critical conversation for personal and professional growth. Part of the reason I switched out of the field was to allow more creative energy for my writing instead of putting everything I had into event management. To be fully transparent, I have a CMP (Certified Meeting Professional) designation which skews my pay scale higher. I was lucky to work for a company willing to pay for the few years it took to get the cert because it costs a few grand and a minimum years in the field to procure.

J S Roberts

I think transparency in earnings and income is exceptionally helpful both within and outside of creative fields. I am very willing to share with others what I make and to also give as much appropriate context as I can as well (experience, education, background, what I asked for in an interview, etc.). For creative and freelance endeavors it is so helpful to hear from others what they started making, how they came up with what they charge or why they think they were offered what they got, and how that has changed over time with increased experience. In the case of self-published authors, knowing that someone who had 4 years of successful YouTube content (which would ostensibly give them a built-in book audience) who posts several times per week or month and has X number of books completed manages to earn $X or only makes $Y through all that effort when you're just starting out and have no following, can keep you from overestimating your likely financial success. I also appreciate when creators are honest about things like having a spouse with a decent income that allows them to focus on low-paying creative work or who has decent health insurance at their job (especially for us US folks) so that the freelancing creative partner doesn't have to worry about getting sick. It took me too long to really wrap my head around the fact that so many of the young creators I was watching who seemed to be making ends meet were from Canada because they don't have to worry about either finding employment that provides insurance or paying huge amounts of their own income to buy their own. I would have to not just replace my current income, but probably double it to be able to not have employment with health insurance. Ugh!

Anonymous

I think, there is a cultural part to this, too. I follow a Youtuber from the US living in Germany (being from Germany myself) an she said how shocked she was how open people are about their income over here. Because she knew it as a quite private thing. I found that very interesting! It differs in Germany by field of work, too, I believe. But I feel like it may be because a salary is less often / not as much a matter of negotiacion. As in: You have this kind of qualifications, so this is the kind of salary you can get - even if it's a range. But that's just my perception, of course

K. R. Green

I think I feel confident talking about money because it's not my main income. Being able to say I made £200-odd from Medium articles last year or that I've had a short story traditionally published in an anthology and been paid £15 for it + royalties... that feels comfortable to share because it's not too high-stakes. If it was my main income or a 'large' amount in my head, I likely would feel less comfortable sharing it (which is interesting as I'm not sure why that is!)

Regina Duke

Interesting viewpoints. When I was working as faculty at University, the most infuriating detail (discovered accidentally) was that every new hire came in at the same salary I was at, even after 20 years. Made me crazy angry. Also motivated me to retire early. :D