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Jestful Statement - 015 - HD (Patreon)

Published:
2021-12-30 04:09:47
Edited:
2021-12-30 04:11:25
Imported:
2022-01

Content

Normalized confusion

- At egscomics 

EDIT - Small typo fix.

Commentary

I liked the idea of guys being excited about Grace's clarity, and "women are confusing" is the sort of thing I've heard plenty of men express, but that left a not cool elephant in the room.

Regardless of their coolness, however, I like pointing out elephants, and Ellen had stuff to say on some reasons why some gender-oriented communication issues are encouraged by societal norms.

SOME reasons. There's a lot more she could have said if given the panel space. It's a pretty complicated topic, which I'm sure is a shocking revelation to everyone.

Incidentally, while I have heard plenty of men express that women are confusing, I've also heard plenty of women say men are confusing. I've also heard men say men are confusing, women say women are confusing, etc.

I think we all might just be confusing.


Files

Comments

Matt R

Well, she's not wrong

AstroChaos

Well I'M confused 🤔

KC

"I think we all might just be confusing." If one sentence had to be used to sum up all of humanity, I think it would be this.

Thisguy

As someone (a male, if that matters) on the autism spectrum. I for one appreciate clarity in the way people speak. It is still difficult for me to know if people are joking. And being a somewhat serious person, people get caught off guard when I joke (doesn’t help that I have a dry sense of humour to start with).

Applestone

Why is it not fair if boys react like that based on their own personal experiences? Ellen's point of society being unfair is a different issue. As far as men/women being confused by men/women: I wonder how many people understand themselves. I think that that'd be a good starting point.

Prof Sai
>>74620465

She might be. Is society _causing_ the gender roles? Or just describing something inherent to life? All throughout the animal kingdom we see similar characteristics.

John Trauger

It isn't just society. There are outlook and attitudinal differences between the sexes. As kids we tend to congregate with those who are "like us". (boys with boys, girls with girls). Seems to me that kind of socializing is going to reinforce those behavior differences. But those differences would exist no matter what society does

Platus

Ellen going full Tiresias is lovely and needs to happen more often

Anonymous

As a Trans woman who has experienced this exact same scenario as Ellen has (well, except for the whole being a diamond curse thing, but definitely the male background but female present life thing), I 100% back Ellen's rant. I will also say, if I must assign blame, it is 80% the fault of male culture, and 20% the fault of female culture. The male side boils down to the fact that toxic masculinity has infected so much of male culture, and there's very little effort to actually weed it out and to clean up masculinity. The 20% of female culture's input is either knee-jerk responses to insane amounts of historical oppression and traditions of dealing with those problems as second class citizens instead of the first-class citizens we now are, and an over-developed sense of caution that sometimes goes too far a result of not having the rights to stand up for ourselves otherwise for so long that I'd best describe as a toxic fear sub-culture.... which is too-often reinforced by the toxic-masculinity sub-culture, and yea, it's a multi-millennium problem, untangling it is going to be something our species deals with for awhile.

Michael Chui

Part of it is also our obsession with putting everything into well-defined buckets and then making unnecessary extrapolations out of those. Our idea of "understanding" something is to freeze it at one point in time and hope it never changes. Gender roles are just one of those things.

Merle Blue
>>74620465

Given that not every human society has had equivalent gender roles (it's not uncommon to have three or more), or equivalent understandings of what those roles entail...it seems increasingly unlikely that gender roles as we currently understand them are at all inherent to humanity.

Some Ed
>>74624022

@Erin I have tried a moisturizer, but it doesn't really soak in well. I think my sense of humor might be moisture resistant in addition to being dry.

Some Ed
>>74630973

I've been told my limited ability to read my own mind is a minor level superpower frequently enough to think that there could be more people who are aware they don't really understand themselves than there are who actually do understand themselves.

Some Ed

Some people like "reading between the lines." Unfortunately, we don't all write between the lines in the same language. Additionally, a lot of people have the idea that "nobody actually says what they mean." I've found a fair number of people found me confusing because, as an autism spectrum person, I strive to communicate as clearly as possible. That is, I usually strive to actually say what I mean, and that turns out to not work nearly as well as I'd like. Even if people understand exactly what I say, they may think I'm trying to tell them something else.

ijuinkun
>>74620465

Things directly relating to the reproductive role are probably part of "nature" rather than "nurture" (e.g. don't strain yourself while late in pregnancy). Other stuff (e.g. excluding females from certain work when she's NOT pregnant, nursing, or otherwise caring for an infant) is cultural.

ijuinkun
>>74666933

The absolute WORST aspect of it is the view that Masculinity/Femininity is some kind of opposing dichotomy like North/South, in that "maleness" is defined as being "unfemaleness" and vice versa. In short, if something is associated with one sex, then it becomes anathema for the other sex. If being nice to people is "feminine" then being a jerkass is therefore "masculine". Meat (and by association, hunting and killing and bloodshed" is "masculine", while vegetables (and gathering them) is "feminine", etc. This especially manifests in such crap as "Men are not allowed to look after children, not even their own", or "Men can not and MUST not cook or clean, therefore any men who do not live with a woman must live in a filthy home and eat only instant/pre-made meals", or "Women must never show active interest in a male, or else she is obviously signaling that she wants to sleep with him immediately".

Windscion

Is it so freaking hard to simply believe that what I am saying is what I really think? I feel ya bro.

Some Ed
>>74620465

Gender roles as defined by society are generally either descriptive of what tends to be common roles or what is convenient for the people in power. When the former get socially enforced, that's often because people in power (at least to some extent) find it convenient to have a less complicated world. In the real world, different people are different, and while there may be clumps of people who are quite similar, many of us are rather different and don't fit conveniently into square or round holes unless they're large enough to accommodate our highly irregular surfaces. I was raised to think that our gender roles are defined by nature, but since I'm one of those very different people, I knew that claim for the malarkey it was right away.