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After an update earlier today (will need to scroll down to see said update), it appears the motivation for per-pledge charges has to do with the option to make new patrons pay up front for Monthly pledges.

(Before I proceed, I'm not defending this reasoning, and I think there are better solutions)

What they're trying to address: 

Some monthly Patreons require an upfront payment when they pledge, which is intended to prevent people from getting things without ever actually contributing.

With such "upfront payment" Patreons, a person could pledge on the 30th, be charged immediately, and then charged again on the the 1st.

This can, to be fair, be an actual problem, and has resulted in complaints and refunds.

Their solution: 

An "anniversary" system in which someone who first pledges (and pays) on the 30th won't pay again until next month's 30.

I don't know how that works in February, but that's the basic idea.

As I understand it, this anniversary system works separately for each pledge, hence separate charges for each pledge.

If you pledged to me on the 5th, and someone else on the 6th, you'd be paying on separate days for either of us on a monthly basis. I'm also fairly certain that, even if you only ever pledged on the 5th, the pledges would be charged separately under such a system.

My take: 

I believe Patreon was trying to solve two perceived problems at once: Uncertainty of how much Patreons were actually getting, and this upfront payment issue.

They only tried to explain the former at first, which was a bad move.

I consider both solutions bad. I don't want to pass the fees on to you, and I don't want to create more fees to address a problem that is only applicable to some Patreons, and could be addressed with better communication.

Some people would miss that they're paying upfront and would be charged again at the first of the month no matter what, but attempting to reduce those numbers must be preferable to separating the charges and increasing the number of fees to deal with.

What I intend to do: 

Initially, most of what I can do is communicate to everyone as best I can, and try to get Patreon to change their mind. If you want to politely but firmly share your opinion with them, here is a handy link. 

If they go through with this, I will be reducing the $3 and $5 tiers to numbers that, once the fees are applied, will add back up to those numbers. Pledges would have to be edited (I assume), but once done, it should be effectively $3 and $5 again for anyone pledging the minimum.

I can't do that for the $1 tier, as $1 is the minimum.

I will understand if that, or anything else about this, really, is a deal breaker for some people. You are all very generous to have pledged at all, and I will remain thankful no matter what. 

Alternatives?

I am not eager to jump ship from Patreon, and won't immediately do so if they stick with this plan.

I will, however, be looking into alternative options, and paying particular attention to what other web comic creators decide. I fully admit that the best decisions I've made about such things have been made based on community advice, and if I do switch to something else, it will probably be on someone wiser's recommendation.

Comments

McZed

Dude, I'm not going anywhere. Regardless of fees. Just for the record.

Anonymous

While my preference is to not go anywhere, I back so many that I would prefer to not drop that it starts heading into "cost prohibitive"...

William Green

I will certainly stick with you, and I don't plan to alter my pledge amount either.

Anonymous

I'm not going anywhere, either. If you do stay, I will probably increase my pledge because I believe you deserve it, and that you shouldn't be in this situation. It's not your fault. Hopefully it isn't hurting you much yet

Emtu

For the upfront payment issue, why not just have the initial payment count for the next month if it's made past the midpoint of the current month? That would surely eliminate complaints (at least from patrons, some creators might complain.)

Anonymous

I hate the fact that I now will be paying $10/month in flat-fees because some assholes abused the system by pledging, hoovering up all the content and then cancelling before being charged. I have be supporting Creators on Patreon for 3.5 years without issue so this is a real slap in the face. I'm not reducing any of pledges, but I will follow the Creators that I am supporting to other platforms.

Quiet Cantata

Shive, you're a cool guy. I've been reading your stuff since before the internet was cool -- true story, since you've been doing this since 2002 (whoa) -- and I like that you take the curve balls the world throws at you and make of them the best thing you can. It's not just this in particular, either. Kudos to being a good storyteller, artist, and all around good guy. Take my money! TAKE IT! And if you take it twice? You deserve it. Thank for all that you do. Cheers.

Nibelung

I will stand will all people I'm supporting for a few months and see if this thing will be reverted. If not, unfortunately, I'll have to drop everyone. I already strictly select who are in my patreon list, and out of principle, I would refuse to pay for a service that care more about ripping people off and hiding it as a positive thing. If my pledges are set at $20, I don't want to be charged more than $20 for them.

dst1980

Thank you for the update. This is the request for feature I put in: While I appreciate the recent changes to give artists more money out of a donation, I would prefer to see an option for the payment anniversary to be set to one date for a patron, with access to the donation level of an artist either held until after the first payment or else have a one time payment off schedule to add that artist to the list of supported artists immediately. The advantage of this method would be reduced fees for the patron, since Patreon could charge all patronages in one bill, for a single base charge and percentage, and the artists would then be guaranteed to get paid for the access level a patron chose.

Kyman201

Well thanks for changing your charges, Dan.

Anonymous

Honestly, I hope they're outright lying about the proposed anniversary system that they're giving as a reason for this, because I have more respect for liars than idiots. Surely they thought of at least one of the better ways to do this. When you sign up for a patreon, they could send you a message saying you'll be charged for this month on the first of the next month even if you cancel your pledge. (That's a policy change they'd have a better chance of selling, I think.) They could charge you up-front for an amount prorated by how many days remain in the month, although they'd probably want to avoid trying to charge you for less than the credit card companies' service fee if you sign up near the end of the month. They could just have a cutoff where you'll pay up-front for the month unless the month is almost over already. They could combine multiple of these strategies, say by charging you prorated but folding it into your next normal charge, even if you cancel your pledge. The only reason to institute this anniversary system is if you're secretly working for the credit card companies.

coredumperror

Yeah, I've been seeing similar suggestions all over the place. What they *should* do is simply pro-rate the first payment to a ratio equal to the number of days remaining in the current month. This is a solved problem, but Patreon is being greedy and couching it in complicated explanations to pull the wool over our eyes.

Anonymous

Exactly - this isn't hard to solve, and most of the obvious solutions are way less complicated to actually implement too. E.g. charge the full amount and just discount the difference from the next month's pledge.

Jon Krupp

One of the things I liked about Patreon, was that all my pledges went through as one block, on the first. I could plan it. I don't need a dozen or more things hitting at all different times of the month. And I just love how they are looking to take our money, after setting up a system that was supposedly about helping support the artists you love. Feel like they are poking me with sharp sticks in two ways now.

Kaz Redclaw

The one block thing is, in fact, the only thing I liked about Patreon. It was better than having lots of small charges scattered throughout the month. Much easier to budget when you only have a single charge and you know where it's going to hit. The site floods me with a deluge of emails every day, only about 1/3rd of which I open up, it doesn't support RSS at all, and it doesn't allow creators to put multiple images in the body of the message, so I often have to download links to see all the content. All in all, it's not ideal, and getting worse.

Crissa Kentavr

But alot of this is that Patreon's credit service is reaming them for these chargebacks and authorizations and they can't seem to get around it. Patreon won't be getting this fee: It goes to whoever their credit card service is. It sucks.

Diego Rossi

It is a very bad explanation on their part. From your post the problem happen only the first time you make a pledge, but the change is applied forever. How many transaction fees to make up for the extra initial pledge? 1 $ - 3 , 3 $ - 9, 5 $ - 14. So, after the first year most patrons that support more than 1 artist will be charged more than the extra initial fee. It isn't a solution to the problem of the extra initial fee, it is money grabbing.

Kaz Redclaw

And stupid money grabbing, because all the money is going to Visa and Mastercard.

Diego Rossi

If it work as depicted, no, it will be Patreon that profit. We will be charged for x transactions (8 for me), but actually there is only 1 transaction, so Patreon get the extra fees. I want to support the creators giving a reasonable profit to Patreon, not to support Patreon and give a few cents to the creators. At that point giving them a larger amount 2 times each year using PayPal would work better. I am already paying a 22% VAT on each transaction and with a direct donation through PayPal that is not applyed as I am not purchasing anything.

egscomics

What they're proposing would be 8 separate transactions. People wouldn't all be charged on the first anymore, and each pledge would be treated separately.

Diego Rossi

So a change that will cost more for all patrons and will not even benefit Patreon to avoid a problem that happen only with the fist transaction? That is even worse.

David Howe

Not convinced. I pay via paypal, and I get a single, consolidated charge to my card, not a bunch of individual ones. If paypal are charging them per-transaction fees then consolidating the charge to me, then that is something they should fix at their side I would think (but more likely, they are making a single consolidated charge and keeping the "bonus" fees)

Anonymous

I donate to help support you, Dan. Not for any rewards or anything. So if you can manage a basic paypal subscription button or similar that would work fine for me.

HP1741A

The single charge is how the system has worked up to now. But the update to Patreon's blog post makes it clear that in the future there will be multiple charges per month. I still think that's a bad move however since consolidating charges (thus avoiding multiple fees) has been one of the biggest selling points of Patreon.

David Howe

Sucks. Ah well, Patreon can't be the only player in this space, just need Dan to find a less abusive processor :)

William Clark

The charge upfront was never a problem for me; at "worst" I got a PM within a few hours with a link to the month's update. But the common case is simply gaining access to all the posts. Unless it's a brand new patreon with no content, that's not a bad deal at all... For the pledger anyway; in the "access to all previous posts" case it's a horrible deal for the creator, only slightly better than not getting anything at all when they cancel their pledge before the month is up.

Justin Cox

I'll keep supporting you on Patreon, at the very least through the next month or so while they work it out. I've voiced a complaint with Patreon asking them to not implement it and go with something else, and if they stay the course, I'll work out something else when the time comes. I've been reading EGS since somewhere around Sister 2, and I plan to keep reading and supporting going forward.

Anonymous

Just wanted to thank you for the excellent job you're doing with explaining and working around this change. I've sent in a detailed complaint to Patreon- hopefully the backlash will be enough to make them back off on this before I have to start cancelling pledges. I will say, though, that even if Patreon do succeed on setting themselves on fire, I'll keep supporting you here or wherever you end up taking donations- EGS has been my favorite webcomic since I started reading it in (checks notes) 2005!

Jumpy James Johnson Junior

It's not necessarily "a problem that happens only with the first transaction," though. Sure some of us sign up as patrons on the 25th, gain access to all that month's and the previous months' patron-only posts for a week without paying anything and then pay per month from then on. Over 5 years, that week means ..... nothing, right?<br>The problem is that people can abuse that "free week" by signing up on the 3rd, cancelling their pledge on the 28th, signing up again on the 3rd of the next month et cetera, never actually paying anything, and the way to prevent that was, until now, to charge them when they sign up and again on the 1st which, over 5 years, amounts to a 1.667% extra cost to all of us honest people and a 725603246592387569723589762389% increase in cost to people who keep dropping out to duck the charges. I'm fine with that, actually. You can always hold out to the 2nd to sign up on the pay-up-front ones.<br>Yes, those people do exist. I've seen artists' total pledges drop hundreds of dollars in the last couple of days of the month and spring back up again as soon as charging's finished.

Diego Rossi

Sure, that kind of people exist. But there are plenty of ways to manage that. A relatively simple one is a warning when you pledge, something like: "You wold be charged for the whole of the current month and will receive the relative rewards. If you want to start only from the first of the next month use this "linked widget" to set the starting date." (Possibly written by someone with a better grasp of English than me) It will require some programming work, but there are plenty of existing programs that do that. I don't think it will be so difficult.

Anonymous

Looks like it's been reversed!

dst1980

Jorb is right - they've reversed course. <a href="https://blog.patreon.com/not-rolling-out-fees-change/">https://blog.patreon.com/not-rolling-out-fees-change/</a>