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Should we continue to host Waifu Poll events? (Patreon)

Published:
2023-02-28 12:17:59
Imported:
2023-02

Content

Hi everyone, I'd like to take this chance to announce that after hearing much feedback over the past year or so with the continued discontent over the waifu poll events, I'm currently at the crossroads of whether I'd like to continue this event going forward. 


For those of you who have been with me for a while, these are the monthly event where I'd choose the nominees from the suggested anime character be it from anime, games, etc, and set up a poll for everyone to participate and vote on a character. I'd usually draw the winner of the poll and if time allows it, I've also drawn the runner-up characters as well in the past. 


Originally, I created this event as a way of connecting with you guys, my beloved community, and creating a chance to make something really cool with your input via the polls each month. That was the intention and I've kept hosting this event for years now despite the few breaks I had in between. But more and more as time goes by, I've heard several discontent opinions regarding the poll. 


The most common consensus is that some find it very distasteful as they feel no need to bother participating because it more or less boils down to what is trending at the time. When I thought about this long and hard, it got me thinking that maybe hosting this event simply will brew further discontent and negativity from some of you which are the very opposite of what I wanted to achieve originally. 


While you could also argue that what is trending right now wins the majority of votes designed to find what is the most popular candidate among the nominees, I've grown weary and tired of having to question whether it's doing more harm than good to host these polls. 


So I'm currently on the fence about abolishing the Waifu Poll going forward. It is very unfortunate news but recent comments have convinced me that I should address this now than later, so I ask everyone on my Patreon to please vote and give me your feedback on the following question. 


Should we continue to host Waifu Poll events? 

Comments

Anonymous

I feel like this happens to any artist that host character polls where either sometimes the same popular character wins whenever they get a chance to be back up on the poll or whatever is trending is gonna win by a landslide because its a trendy and people want to see new art for that character. Nothing wrong with it but its just how i see it happen all the time and artists like yourself are in a lose/lose situation with your audience with no matter what you decide to do. Feels like theres no easy solution for this to be completely honest.

Epsilia

Huh...instead of setting it up as a vote for a single character or two that may be wasted vote(s), we could set it up as some sort of tournament. Trending character v.s. trending character, less trending character v.s. less trending character. After however so many daily rounds, we'd be able to finally end up with two finalists. That way, there's no "wasted" votes since in the end, everyone will be able to vote on who the ultimate winner is in the end. It'd be less infuriating this way since they were able to at least win a few of the rounds even if their character didn't win in the end and some trending character won. It's also good for community engagement.

Danalieth Vonlys

I never see one of my vote win the polls but I don't care about it because what I care is your art. Yes if one day the waifu I voted win I will be happy. And yes, it's more a "trending waifu moment vote" than everything else but that's the game of polls like that. What matter is what do you think is the best for you. You're right on the limits of the system so if you don't like the polls as it is, then change it. I think we (almost) all open to news things. As long as it's a system you're happy to wrok with, it's ok for me.

Toastywafflz

I like some of the alternatives that people have suggested already, mainly the more actionable ones for you that wouldn't consume a crazy amount of time, like having more of a suggestion box than a binding poll. You could also split the difference kinda and just make sure nobody super popular or trending is on the poll, or focus the poll on characters you like, but that could be a bit of a pain. Regardless, it's the nature of polls to have winners and losers; if the issue is having the same winners all the time, I think the most direct solution without ridding us of the poll entirely is to take note of those characters and what's trending and exclude them from the poll, especially if they're characters you may intend on doing anyways. All that being said, I also support you because I like your art. I think I care more about you drawing characters you're passionate about and having fun with your work than seeing you draw specific people. Of course, if I were to be able to have some sort of input here or there in some way, that's fun; I think we all have characters we like and want to see our favorite artists render. But if you feel that the poll is restrictive, or that it has a negative impact on your community, I'm happy to just see you do whatever you want, because that's why I'm here anyways. I think it's important to feel good about your work, especially if it's your passion, and even though this issue doesn't pertain as directly to the art creation process, I could definitely see how it could be stressful or discouraging to have to wrestle discontent with the poll system. I really value the enjoyment of the creator, personally, that's one of the most important things to me as a supporter. Enabling you in some way to do what you love is participation enough for me. I do really like the idea too of replacing the poll character with your own character. I do want to see more of her, she's cute. And that sounds like it'd be a lot of fun for you too, so everyone wins. Knowing we'll see more of her either way is nice. Either way, thank you for your diligence. I appreciate your mindfulness, and I hope we can help you come to a decision that straightens everything out. I really am fine either way in the end, as long as it works for you :)

Moonwizards1

I voted to abolish it so you save yourself a headache but I actually don't mind the system. It gives us a voice and allows us to choose from the months lineup. People will always be dissatisfied but at least having an option to choose and communicate is better than no voice with the alternative. Sorry if you're having a hard time Foxy but please believe we are here for you and aren't going anywhere regardless of your decision. Be well and thanks for all you do!

Fusiontech45

One method that I’ve seen some artists use is that the artist picks 3-4 characters that they feel like drawing that month. The patrons then vote from the available choices. It’s not a perfect system, but I’ve seen the artists have more fun because all the choices are something they want to draw anyway, and the patrons still have an impact on what’s drawn.

DunceCap64

There is issues with the current system which is quite aggravating as someone who comes here for your art, not every single month people voting for a Genshin character (sorry guys who like it, I'm disinterested). Those who are trending isn't as big a deal since they are usually one ofs but the current system has problems. Firstly, disproportionate voting power in this case being literally pay to win. Something I've always noticed is that they don't ever split their votes if they have more, they just double down on who they actually want to see. This creates an issues of relative voting power, since you split your choices you will loose, and those who pay more have much bigger say on who actually wins. A bigger block of total people can be overided by a smaller block who all pay for more votes, which is likely where some of the disconnect comes from. It's not exactly good feeling to know your votes don't matter when your one or 2 votes can get run over by a guy with 5, which is why some don't vote. I don't have the data to back this up since I can't the end result but I have a suspicion that you have a swing group of people with a lot of votes who basically decide who wins given the trends. Second, there is no real limits to what people can vote for. This is something that as someone who enjoys older games or less popular titles is def annoying and I don't think I'm the only one. What we always see is usually this: Popular Character for this anime Season, a Very popular new game Waifu, Genshin Character, and Fate character. The first 2 switch out often enough that it's usually fine, since hey they are usually one and done with one very obvious exception (Marin). But it's very much the case that if it's not a trendy character it's going to be Genshin. Whenever we get someone who isn't from like a big name swing anime or game it's always goes back to Genshin and selects that character pretty much 90% of the time I have yet to see it do otherwise. I get you enjoy it and let the community also enjoys it but I feel like there needs to be some raining in since we miss a lot of opportunities to see someone new because someone wants their gacha character and because it's popular enough or potentially people strategically voting for the thing they will hate the least they end up winning. If this is really intended for the community coming together and deciding it needs to be said that everyone's first vote at least should matter the most. If people have a disproportionate amounts of say in the matter you get people who are disinterested in that's what I think is going on, I know for certain I don't vote at all because 90% of the time it won't ever swing anything. I am likely not the only one, you have smaller people who also just don't vote because they're one vote doesn't do anything, which in turn only doubles down the issue of that block who already collectively decides as a whole. Voting Dynamics is a tricky situation. So here I want to offer two potential fixes to at least address these issues that will need to see some actual testing runs to see if it actually changes things. Firstly is remove the ability for a person to just dump their entire block of votes onto a single character. If it is intended for the community to really decide who they would like to see we need to remove the disproportionate votes, Because everyone's voice should matter if this is intended to give back to the community and it should matter equally. I understand wanting to give a bonus to the people who pay more so instead of giving them more votes to dump into their one character just let them be able to pick more than one. The current incentive system right now basically forces anyone who pays more to dump it into the character they actually want to see the most because if they do not they will just lose, splitting votes is detrimental to what they would actually want so they're going to optimize the fun out of what's supposed to be a community event. By making each individual vote equal they need not worry of their primary character not potentially getting in, they can vote for a second that they wouldn't mind or a third or a fourth or if they just want to vote for the one they can vote for the one. It would be more reflective of what the community as a whole would actually like to see rather than a smaller block who decides for the community. Second thing that would need to change there would need to be cool downs on either specific characters or franchises/series. I may have to reply back on this after digging through the start of when I started joining but I can say with a fair level of confidence we have probably had at least one Genshin character every other month and potentially sometimes for several times in a row. We also had Marin who you also nearly had to step in to prevent her from just dominating the community vote for a while which I think is an example of the problem of their needs to be cooldowns. We'll need to see exactly how often certain series pop up to give some space for people who are new. Like with the example I mentioned before you would need a 3-month grace period to prevent either a fate character or a Genshin character from winning again and taking any chance of somebody new or from a less popular series from just getting filtered out even if the community as a whole would like to see more of it. 3rd narrow down what actually might be drawn. This part is actually relatively easy what you do here is you have open a suggestion box and then decide for yourself the eight that you seem interested in drawing and have the community vote from there. At the end of the day we are here for your art so you should also have a bit of a say in what you actually want to put out for the community. The last thing any of us want is you feeling burnout from drawing the same series over and over again not because you want to but because the community just keeps voting for it. Thankfully it hasn't happened but let's try to do something preventative from letting that happen. I don't believe these are perfect solutions, but it's a step in the right direction to prevent people from feeling like their vote doesn't matter. Because if the community as a whole feels like their vote doesn't matter they're just not going to and if they don't then that group that decides already who wins just decides even harder. This also isn't including characters who might have actually been interesting to see you draw not even getting recommended because why bother they're never going to win. And don't be afraid to ask us for help if you decide to implement these newer changes I guarantee someone would not mind myself included doing the work of managing the voting system if it means we get to see some new art of characters we have never seen before or have never seen you draw. It definitely would at least improve retention and total voters which should also ironically make it easier. And apologies for making this incredibly long this kind of think discussion is very much something I enjoy.

Flaming_Kaiser

Maybe you could safe up the less choosen characters and put all of them in one poll. Or you could do several characters from one series then you atleast have more different series portrayed. You also have really cool original characters you make up yourself. It's a little dissapointing to see the same series win all the time but thats a poll. But when its finished it always looks great in the end so im not that fussed.

Swizzler9

I have said my remarks on Discord but figured I should record them here Maye consider cutting back the monthly poll from 1 a month to 1 every two months and then draw the top 2 from the votes. Otherwise dropping the poll altogether could be good to allow you to draw more of your OC

Erzen

Some creators I have supported solve this kind of issues by having "niche poll" for unpopular characters so they are on equal footing. You may argue that preventing trending characters from entering the poll is bandage solution but in my opinion the moment that happens the poll is already rigged as 99% of the time the familiar trending character would win over character from older series simply because the latter caters only to specific fandom. Outliers like exists like Olga for example but this differs from community to community. Overall, I think that if you do not have a way to settle the problem in a way you find it reasonable to YOU first, then simply abolish the poll. I would personally love to have my favourite old school waifus drawn by you but considering it won't ever happen I would accept the reality.

Pierre Johnson
>>102946533

"I know for certain I don't vote at all because 90% of the time it won't ever swing anything" You are aware that such a defeatist attitude contributes to the perceived problem in the voting? Every person that is following that kind of train of thought is contributing to their own dissatisfaction.

DunceCap64
>>102946533

The problem is is that that usually starts as a result of something that's wrong It doesn't end up that way initially if that makes sense. Voter disengagement generally comes from not being able to be represented rather than just negative attitudes those people wouldn't have voted either way. This wouldn't have had to be an issue if everyone was okay with how things were going. The fact there is so much negativity that she's having to ask if it's even worth keeping around shows I'm likely not the only one with this thought process there's probably a significant group of people who think very similarly and this is just one reason as to why. Also I very much read earlier and explain that exact phenomenon in that massive amount of text I am well aware of how it ends up by not contributing

foxyrain
>>102938721

Ugh... I have to agree there. What started out as a fun little activity seemed to have evolved into chaos incarnate. There doesn't seem to be a easy way to remedy it.

foxyrain
>>102939491

In theory, I understand this could work but what about the time spent on the polls, and time spent tracking the votes? From my perspective as an artist, time is just so scarce and limited for me. That's definitely a solution but I'm not sure if my time limit would allow us to expand the voting process longer than it already is.

foxyrain
>>102939532

Thank you! I hope we could find a good solution now that it's brought to light.

foxyrain
>>102944062

Aww thank you so much Toasty! I agree that the suggestion box is also a pretty good idea. Replacing the poll with my OC once a month could also be a potential idea since I'd then be insured to have some time to draw her. Most of the months are so hectic that I haven't even thought about it for as long as I can remember.

foxyrain
>>102944204

Thanks Moon! To be honest, I don't mind the current system either but seeing as there were more issues raised as of late, I thought I should bring it to light to see public opinions here from you guys. So far I'm impressed with a lot of people placing feedback here! Lots of valuable ideas from everyone so I'm happy I made this poll to see where everyone stands on this.

foxyrain
>>102944213

I suppose that's kind of what I've been doing but instead of 4 I picked 8 each month instead. I do have fun drawing the winner and maybe the runner-up if I could spare the time for an extra art during the month but it has its downfalls.

foxyrain
>>102957019

Thank you, I do try and mix them up every now and again. Hopefully we could come to create a good system to revamp the poll.

foxyrain
>>102964833

Thank you swizzler! The idea to replace the poll with my oc is still just an idea I'm working on so it's not finalized hence the crossroads I find myself atm. Part of me wants to pursue both if possible but I know it's not as realistic due to the time constraints.

foxyrain
>>102970271

I'm actually surprised with how Olga turned out. I think last month's poll also had a character from a Hentai OVA that came 2nd or 3rd place. So I think it's totally possible for outlier characters to win the poll as a dark horse (I'll be honest the past two polls were very entertaining to see).

Phantasma__

Foxy, I love anything you draw. Honestly, the character matters much less than whether you are enjoying the work. I read a few of the comments here; I couldn't read them all. And I feel that if not having enough time to draw your OC or wanting to draw your OC more is an issue, then the poll can be relaxed some. Otherwise, I would say keep the poll. I don't participate in them so frequently, but I do enjoy them.

foxyrain
>>102987470

Thank you Phantasma! I'm going to review all the feedback I've gotten and make a decision on the poll for next month. Whether it goes away completely or transform into something else, I'll still be drawing my usual standards of anime girls.

foxyrain
>>102946533

Thank you so much for all those amazing ideas Alex! I've read through all of them and I think asking the higher tier patrons to split their votes evenly so they can give only one vote to each character would be a better solution if we were to continue with the polls. Imposing a grace period could be quite tricky since not many people tend to read past notices. I know it should be quite obvious to some but most of us seem to have a shorter attention span these days so even if there is a grace period, newer patrons might not know about them if they don't scroll up to read them when they are making their suggestions for the month. But it's a good idea since it'd be a little ridiculous to have Marin win a 4th term in the polls should 2nd season arrive sometime this year so I'll consider this an option for later. Suggestion box is something I'm considering as well. It's been brought up time and time again so I'm highly considering this as a good replacement to the poll if we do replace the event entirely.

Anonymous

Do what's best for you Reine, we love everything you draw and I know it's impossible to please everyone, but if you think about doing a rotation of anime characters one week, game characters another would be a good idea, or reduce the quantity would be good too; but do it for your own good Reine, we support you.

Flaming_Kaiser
>>102957019

The art is awsome but I understand it's not a easy fix and its almost impossible to please everyone. Again your art is fantastic it's not for nothing im subscribed for so long that is totally because of your great art.

foxyrain
>>102957019

Thank you! Whatever choice I make, I'll always continue to create sexy anime girls!

foxyrain
>>103068346

Thank you! I hope to continue drawing as best I can at all times! I haven't yet decided what changes I'll make but thanks to everyone's input, I have so many ideas to choose from. Honestly, I'm very grateful for everyone adding so much great feedback!