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/409/ Palestine, Protest, Repression: The Wider Context (Patreon)

Published:
2024-05-07 07:01:01
Imported:
2024-07
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On US campus protest, the brutalisation of Gaza, and whether this is an age of war.

Alex, George and Phil debate the matter of the day. We ask:

  • Is the police repression and associated censorship (the anti-semitism bill) a reflection of the fact the content of the protest unsettles the establishment? Why?

  • Why is the Left breaking with Biden and the Dems over this and not before?

  • How do these student protests compare to BLM? And how do they compare to those of the late 60s and Vietnam?

  • What should those in Western countries do in response to Israel’s war?

  • Is the Palestinian struggle dead?

  • What are the risks of regional war? And does Israel's assault on Gaza presage a new era of warfare?

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Richard R

There is a noticeable pattern in the discourse around the pod that seems to consistently fail to render opposing arguments meaningfully. I think back on sometime a few years ago, when "socializing childcare" meant children having legal protections against abuse and neglect, and the existence of daycare. We might well then say that the means of production have been effectively socialized, since workers have a modicum of rights, and there are limits on what kinds of trading are allowed. Similarly, "abolishing racism", already a difficult idea to render simply, becomes more or less completely illegible when it is reduced to outlawing racial discrimination. Imagine a counter-factual in which Black Panthers and the Nation of Islam were granted billions of dollars in favorable weapons sales and foreign aide starting in the 1960s--meditate on what is so absurd about such a counterfactual, and it should become fairly obvious rather quickly why racism remains a relevant factor in international relations. While victims commissioners and HR departments may be a poor replacement for disassembling and recommissioning organizations and private enterprises built on racism (why do Pfizer and BMW even still exist? why do corporations that dump toxic waste into native reservations still exist? why does Shell exist?), the problem remains a focus on individual persons. So it is with how "decolonization" is rendered by nationalists. Idiotic, antisemitic kids calling for the total liquidation of Jewish Israelis (again, where are these people? I was close to students involved with BDS for five years and didn't meet even one of these people, except one making the case rhetorically) are held up as examples of what is meant by decolonization. But in case you doubt that this is an incredibly negligible position, ask yourself why with all the coverage of the encampments you haven't seen a single image or video of even a single person making it. What is actually meant by decolonizing Israel, as with the US, and other postcolonies, is the disassembly and reconstruction of organizations and enterprises built specifically for the purpose of establishing racial hierarchies. In South Africa, this meant a new constitution. If someone is telling you that calls for a new constitution is a call for liquidation of whole populations, you may want to pause. It is undoubtedly the case that gobsmacked liberal so-called "anarchists" of my generation fall into ideas of abolition that are very nearly meaningless. Nevertheless, collapsing all of the wide range of ideas related to such abolitionism into the most childish, outspoken version will inevitably result into reflexive impotence, as it supports a false binary between, for example, killing every last Palestinian man, woman, and child on one hand, and deporting every Israeli person on the other. One of those options can actually be accomplished by the existing powers in the current situation. The other is a bogeyman made up in the mind of embattled, paranoid young people. Waffle and joke on which is which at your own peril. The problem with Israel isn't that it's made up of Israelis, it's that in its current form, it simply cannot be made up of anyone else.

Richard R
>>137916337

To be thorough: In what sense does Zion not exist now? If the practical absence of any party which represents non-Jewish perspectives or persons, and the public debate ranging basically from "Kill them all" to "Let them have a bantustan or two" is not Zionist enough for the Zionists, what would Zionism actually even mean were it to be accomplished other than complete and final genocide?

Ghost Runner

I'm aligned with your view on the protests and Palestinians' situation. Yet, I think the left must stake out an anti-imperialist position even if, in the short-term, it is only a call for a ceasefire for the US to end aid and security. As minimalist as that is, it is superior to a realist position that relinquishes the upper hand to Israel.