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Oregairu 2x3 (Patreon)

Published:
2023-04-15 03:11:55
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curious to see what her plan is

Comments

zay

I know beef is just a bonus show but are you guys watching more of it next week?

ShyGuy
>>106396695

Pretty sure it’s part of their schedule now so expect it every week lol

zay
>>106396695

Oh shit nice lol idk how I missed that

Devin B

Best girl Iroha is finally here

zay
>>106396695

Take your time bro youre good, ill watch it whenever it drops im just glad you two enjoyed it enough to continue

That Guy

Imma be honest u guys are doing more than me, trying to understand this anime - I just watch this show for Iroha. But I love seeing u guys discuss it seriously :)

danial javady

I like your introduction explaining things. He really didn't take an L. As for the mental acrobatics part, it may just be an oversight from the author in the sense that they never realized that he didn't even hurt himself. The people complaining in the previous comments are likely to be much younger. At the end of the day, maybe the japanese audience would be more aligned with what the author was trying to express. I think the two girls were definitely salty cause their mans was confessing to another girl in front of them. The first time he sacrificed himself(far harsher than this one too!) they took practically no issue with it. Here? No one but the fuckboy believed it yet they crying

Pxblo

I can see your point of view that hiki doesnt really care but in my opinion i thinks its one of those thing where you dont think you are hurting yourself but over time when you keep putting yourself in that situation over and over it takes a toll on your mental. You can get shit on a couple time and keep going but at some point you just snap. (This is a completely extreme example but i think it work.) It kinda reminds me of violet from violet evergarden how the dude told her "you're on fire) but to her she doesnt understand and its not until she starts developing those feeling and sees the effects of her actions that she even realizes she is burning.

yaboyroshi
>>106397321

well put! Sheera was definitely still thinking they were mad cause he confessed and it was a mix of both lol. Also I didn't take into account the Japanese audience so thanks for that perspective as well!

Devin B
>>106397321

Those two situations were different though. With the Sagami issue there was no obligation to try and help her and Hikigaya was just telling her the truth at the end of the day. In the situation with Tobe and Ebina the club was tasked with helping them out but he basically gave them an out without them actually having them confront each other. Even though he played the bad guy in both parts in the first part he directly confronted Sagami on the issue but in this one he had both parties avoid the issue for the time being.

wavyesper

Haruno does not have romantic feeling for hachiman. She was joking😀.

wavyesper
>>106397321

Yui and Yukino did not see the sagami and hachiman confrontation first hand but Hayama's reaction to it was apparent

Imari

Even in this episode we can see why they are upset. Every opportunity he gets he finds a way to throw his own social status under the bus to help someone. He always has an answer but it usually comes with someone sacrificing themselves for someone else’s benefit. And he likes to choose that person to be him. In the beginning he made a lot of self deprecating jokes which in itself is fine. But in underlying terms shows how someone doesn’t love themself or think they deserve love. His flashbacks usually show us how he was denied love, friends, and relationships. So instead of getting sabotaged or feeling the pain he inflicts it on himself in a way that only hurts him. And while that may work for him other people may hate him (outwards looking in) because of the douchbag front he puts up to help people. While his friends know he’s a good person that doesn’t mean they will like the pain he causes himself because he doesn’t love himself. They love him but they also want him to love him. Anyway that’s how I interpreted the last episode and them being bothered.

nemui
>>106397321

Yes it wasn't a big deal considering the circumstances but you need to remember that they specifically hated what Hachiman doing because of the accumulation of the way he has been doing things. He has such low self-esteem that he doesn't see that when he gets hurt for obtaining a result it also affect's other people near him such as Yui. In almost every way he helps he does so by making himself the antagonist, such as in the festival, multiple times, or for this confession. Anyway, I love a lot of people's interpretations of what happened in Oregairu during their early watching session, especially that particular episode.

Devin B

So just to rebuttal your rebuttal Roshi, in that last situation he didn't necessarily take an L cause he truly didn't care about how the situation would make him look but the key thing that happened in this situation compared to the last one was that he didn't fix the core issue. He gave them a stop gap measure just so that they can preserve their friendship for a while but eventually they would run into this situation again because even Tobe said he's not going to give up. Hikigaya is only thinking about how to avoid the issue instead of solving it.

KingdorismHD

In a simpler explanation. They both care about him and don't like it when he gets hurt because it hurts them too. Specially yukino since they both had the same GENUINE mentality

Argo2Unitard

Hachiman's L is that the whole school now knows him as the guy someone asked for help as a wingman, and instead shot his shot first. Everyone would hate that guy. The only people that know the truth are the only people that know him, which can be counted on two hands. One hand if we only count High Schoolers.

wavyesper
>>106397321

Yes. I didn't understand what was going on either at first but during the rewatch, I was able to grasp their intentions. I feel like the light novel (source material) would be clearer cuz it's more detailed on thoughts and feelings

Drake Chuckle

Once again: loved the extended discussion, and totally agreed with you on the beastars bit, fun show but yeah that s2 ending was very... interesting. lol.

Devin reid

Bros plans work 75% of the time all though they aren’t the best ways to go about things he gets shit done I’m tired of these weak ass comments from the other students I’m tired boss

Sami Mottaghian
>>106398230

EXACTLY. Dont forget the incident at the end of season 1 as well. His reputation is horrible now, no matter what he says humans are social creatures and everyone cares to at least some degree what other people think of them, even hachiman the whole school and almost everyone around you hating you especially for things that you did in order to help others is going to hurt no matter who you are. Edit: forgot to mention that even though the rejection was "fake" it's still embarrassing to get shot down in front of everyone.

Elias Sandoval
>>106397321

I agree with you and Sheera, but the comment about the japanese audience makes sense as well, their society is different than ours, and doing those kind of things in public in behalf of someone else could be an L for a japanese person, according to anime this people are overcomplicated with love stuff, and i think Hikigaya's actions could be humiliating from their pov. And to clarify: i don't think anime is the exact reflection of their society, but who knows haha. Loving your content guys and best regards from Venezuela.

Reuben Filimaua

I enjoyed your guys discussion at the beginning. And that is exactly what this season is gonna tackle. Hachiman himself doesn't care about it cos he's Used to it. That'll take a pretty terrible toll on anybody, no matter what apathetic face and attitude you carry. Think about it. You're Used to pain and being rejected. Just because Hachiman is used to it, doesn't mean it doesn't hurt. Its hurt him so many times before that it doesn't sting anymore? And you're putting yourself in these situations? Naah that can't be mentally healthy. Then on top of that he isn't even taking into consideration their feelings on the matter. Sure he may not care about it, but they do. Him just brushing off them "crying about it" communicates to them that he doesn't care about Them and how they feel. That's also what Yui said to him last episode too. "Can you for once think of how others feel?"

TrinitytheApostle

Thanks for the discussion at the beginning, can't wait for one next episode after these comments as well

Argo2Unitard
>>106398478

If you chopped your arm off to smack paper towels off the top shelf, did your plan really work? Do you need to make the whole school hate you just so some dude doesn't feel bad about getting rejected?

Lulluf

Hikigaya's been avoiding the root problems of most requests the club has received so far. Let's go through some examples: - When Yui first came to them it was because she wanted to learn to bake cookies, Hikki's solution was "they don't have to be good". - The elementary school girl who was being excluded: "Oh just break the entire friend-group apart, can't be excluded from a group that doesn't exist". - The red-haired girl (even if she sucks) during the school festival arc: instead of making sure she was a successful leader he just made sure that they would blame him in the end when she screwed up her closing speech. - Tobe's confession towards Ebina: just go in there, make a fake confession and stop that group from discussing their problems/feelings. None of their problems were fixed. (Yui learning to bake, the kid being INCLUDED, the red-haired girl managing school festival from beginning to end and really EARNING the credit, Tobe getting his confession out). Also, Hikki's self-sabotaging methods have been building up during the course of the entire show: these events were witnessed by students other than Hayama or the Service Club, word gets around, Hikigaya was the most hated student at the school after the festival. Also regarding Iroha's problem: it's not about wanting to become student council president or not, it's about the fact that 30 bullies got organized enough to nominate her in order to humiliate her in front of the entire school. Hikigaya's solution won't solve that issue, just distract from it by humiliating himself more, and while Yukino's solution doesn't solve it either, at least nobody will be humiliated that way.

Seraph_Dalgon_

There's no way that Orimoto girl ain't saying all that shit on purpose. There's just no humane explanation for saying such crap about a person with a smile on your face without it being for malicious purposes.

X-Kun

The key point that they’re REALLY missing is that Hayama, Yuki, and Yui weren’t the only ones there. The characters beside them seem like fodder (because they are) but they are there for a reason. It shows that the background characters are there to witness that situation—and those bg chars don’t know wtf is going on. So imagine Lupa is confessing to some chick in some fancy place, lighting on point, the time is perfect (it’s 5:30), and then some random dude comes in and confesses io Lupa’s crush. You’d just be like “YEEEAAAHH!? Bro just stole the entire…moment??”. With Hiki, It’s worse cuz he already has a bad rep so now they gonna talk crap about this new situation and the Festival one too. I understand what you mean BUT that argument in the beginning only works if there was only the people involved there. Sorry for making this long lol

Tuny kun

Damn, I don't think I've seen you guys discuss this much before. Now that the comments are basically telling you what to think or what to see, it kind of removes the whole reading the room aspect of the show, but it's fine. There's more to the show than that. So hyped for next episode.

blue snivy

i dont think its about the gravity of the repercussions more so hachimans aproach to a solution and how he views relationships with other people, when u think about it he is kind've going the extra mile for others who doesn't really have a connection with while he still doesn't really form a connection with those same people yukinon is pretty overly serious about it since she sucks at compromising and yui is much more emotional and while still trying to be the middle ground for the other 2 its a fucked up dynamic but thats why it has that title lol

CLOUDZ ARECOMING
>>106399364

Nice summary or the root problems and the unseen context of the fact that you would need to see the social ramifications of and action to a majority of the school rather than the minority of the group.

Greg Harrison

Hachiman is bold as hell to bring up another self-sacrifice idea right after the last ep. Also holy shit, 8 min intro, that's a first. The second season is the drama season, but I wouldnt really rec debating or letting comments influence yall too much.

Avalon

Hikki didn’t hurt himself in a conscious way, but he’s faced rejection before, and it broke him. He’s quiet and reserved because no one ever accepted his advances of friendship of love before. So he’s deadened his heart to the feelings which these rejections should give him. He allows himself to be okay with being shit on after every single situation because it’s the only way he knows how to get through life. And the girls cannot stand to watch it. Because somewhere deep deep down, there’s the caring tender person Hikki was and could be, and it’s hurt by these situations, even if current Hikki can’t see it. The girls want Hikki to understand he IS hurting himself, and to consider how that makes them feel. To watch someone they consider a friend throw himself into the fire repeatedly because he doesn’t value himself, because he doesn’t love himself. The girls both have a need to fix people, and situations, and that need extends to Hikki, but most people want to be helped and fixed, so it frustrates them that he doesn’t. That he just takes the hit and moves on, and acts stoic in the face of his pain and their emotional distress. Last episode ended with Hikki calling himself the biggest liar of all, and a superficial person. Because he knows all of this, but wants things to stay the same. Which is what he says he hates about everyone else. Hikki is so used to the pain he’s afraid of what exists outside of it, and it hypocritically denying the change that is actively pushing him.

X-Kun

Second comment because i finished the reaction but yes, i think everyone can agree that the main issue of it all is definitely avoidance. The difference of the matter is Hikigaya’s way avoids and then also sabotages himself. Yeah Yukinoshita’s way avoids but in a way where it’s fair and nobody really gets humiliated because at the end of the day, you can’t be embarrassed after trying your best. Hiki’s way is just him making a shit speech and making him look dumb and then the school has another thing to clown him on. What I personally interpret from those flashbacks is that had some moments in the past that stuck with him and made him who he is now, that’s why even back then he became silent and stuck to himself. This cause the people around him in middle school to not really associate with him and now that’s followed with him in high school. Yuki and Yui realize this and want him to change and are trying to find better methods. Also i think in the last episode during the whole rooftop scene with Ebina, he says to her he loves the way he does things (or something like that, i don’t remember), then when she leaves—he closes out with the thought; “The biggest liar is me”. He doesn’t like the way he does things but he does it anyway because that’s the way he’s been doing it so far and he thinks it’s the best solution. The tension behind the club rn is essentially just them wanting Hiki to have more self-worth.

Connor Grynol
>>106398478

Roshi said it best last episode. His methods work in maintaining the status quo, but it doesn't really give the people he's helping a chance to grow. By taking hardships upon himself, he's robbing others their chance to learn from mistakes and difficulty.

Rue Ryuuzaki

Its quite simple. The girls doesnt want to see Hikigaya throwing himself under the bus every time to help someone out because it hurts them to see it. They care about him so much now that seeing him hurt himself hurt them as much.

Connor Grynol
>>106397193

We love Iroha. For a girl that made her first appearance in season two, Iroha is surprising well liked by the fandom. I like her too, but it's just rare for a late game rival to get so much love.

Devin B

To better understand Hikigaya's and Yukino's approach to helping others you should think back to what the teacher said about their progress so far. She admitted that Hikigaya is in the lead based on results but in terms of thinking of things in the long term Yukino is ahead. Hikigaya would give a quick fix method that helps you for the time being but Yukino would actually work out a way to help solve the root of the issue. In this case they're trying to help Iroha not become the student council president so Hikigaya's idea would get that result but he's not thinking about what happens next. Yukino is actually trying to find someone to actually do the job so that not only does Iroha save face but the student council gets a president that is capable.

Jose silva

I kind of agree with what you said in the begging of the episode Roshi that for the most part he dint get affected by his own plan, but yeah they just dont like him doing those things because it gives him a bad cred that he doesn't really deserve after helping the other people out.

Arturo1629

I love this anime , it makes people write paragraphs and discuss forever , demonstrates how good the story is

Devante Vickers
>>106399455

I think misunderstandings do need to be cleared up. But they can think what they want though, just dont want them to misinterpreted certain parts of the story.

UI
>>106397321

danial it's not that at all. to rebut what you said about them not being angry about the first time, they couldn't have been mad because they have no idea what he did, or at least did not know at the time. The only ones that watched him roast the girl was Hayama and the girl's friends and Hayama was pissed at Hiki for sacrificing himself. Even further, at the end of that same episode, the teacher even comes up to him and talks to him about what he did and how that was not the correct way to solve things because he purposely sacrificed himself. Your comment about the people complaining being much younger is just dumb as fuck and does not help the conversation at all so thats just whatever. Overall, the two girls are 100% not mad at him because he "confessed" to another girl in front of them. Yuki even said that she doesn't like the way that he solves these issues.

Sergio

exactly i agree! while yes he did things the wrong way, it doesn’t make sense why yui and yuki are mad.

Pan Cakes (edited)

Comment edits

2023-04-15 10:14:25 these anime story is one of those that makes people discuss alot and write paragraphs in almost every comment LMAO
2023-04-15 08:10:10 these anime story is one of those that makes people discuss alot and write paragraphs in almost every comment LMAO. ALSO BEST GIRL IROHA SHOWED UP. YUKI AND YUI ARE MID AF

these anime story is one of those that makes people discuss alot and write paragraphs in almost every comment LMAO. ALSO BEST GIRL IROHA SHOWED UP. YUKI AND YUI ARE MID AF

Josh
>>106403218

They're upset that Hiki always throws himself under the bus and shoves other peoples growth aside, just so he can achieve the 'ideal situation'. And what happens after? He get shunned by many people at the school (Tobe and the crew are part of the popular clique), the status quo gets to be maintained for a little while longer, and Hachiman has to internalise all the hate he'll receive. It makes sense why the people closest to him are upset that he constantly does this.

Vinny94

They should watch Haganai

Random Guy (edited)

Comment edits

2023-04-15 12:22:28 so the 2 main L's that Hikigaya took in this confession are: First, Hikigaya is clearly hurt. He even said that the biggest liar is him, because he is pretending like he is fine, like he doesn't care but its so obvious from his expression that he is hurt, and the people who care about him can see it clear as day. Second, Tobe wasn't the only guy who was unaware of the situation. So did his 2 other friends in the hayama circle. In the next few days Hiki will probably become known as that person who stole somebody's confession and got shot down anyway. That's a lot of humiliation. The only one who knows about this is Ebina, Hayama, Yui and Yukino out of the entire class, and they can't and won't explain it to the class because the would make Hikigaya's confession pointless. Hikigaya isn't dense, he said so himself in the s1 (the fireworks festival), he is oversensitive that's why he always tries to rationalize things to make it hurt less, but that's just denial. That's pretty much the entire show and we are just waiting for him to become honest to himself.
2023-04-15 10:10:54 Hikigaya is clearly hurt. He even said that the biggest liar is him, because he is pretending like he is fine, like he doesn't care but its so obvious from his expression that he is hurt, and the people who care about him can see it clear as day. Even his sister, who wasn't there at all and have no knowledge whatsoever of what happened, could clearly see there was something wrong. It's like he's got a huge gaping wound, pretending he's okay but people can clearly see he isn't okay. Hikigaya isn't dense, he said so himself in the s1 (the fireworks festival), he is oversensitive that's why he always tries to rationalize things to make it hurt less, but that's just denial. That's pretty much the entire show and we are just waiting for him to become honest to himself.

Hikigaya is clearly hurt. He even said that the biggest liar is him, because he is pretending like he is fine, like he doesn't care but its so obvious from his expression that he is hurt, and the people who care about him can see it clear as day. Even his sister, who wasn't there at all and have no knowledge whatsoever of what happened, could clearly see there was something wrong. It's like he's got a huge gaping wound, pretending he's okay but people can clearly see he isn't okay. Hikigaya isn't dense, he said so himself in the s1 (the fireworks festival), he is oversensitive that's why he always tries to rationalize things to make it hurt less, but that's just denial. That's pretty much the entire show and we are just waiting for him to become honest to himself.

Losalma

I agree with both of you in the Ebina situation, but I think that I can have a second lecture on that (this is just my opinion so I'm not sure if this is right). Are you trying to look back at what Yukino was saying, she said "I thought that we both hated that superficiality". I think that she says that in reference that Hikki helped Hayama's group in maintaining that fake status quo, if you go back to the first converts that they had in the club Hikki was saying that HE hated how everyone was fake and I think that because Yukino's past made her think that Hikki was different that all the people that bullied her in the past just because she was her real self and on top of that Hikki "FIXED" the problem by sacrificing himself againg. You can use this episode as an example of how when they explain the problem to them the first solution that he thought was make himself the "villain" and you can see the reaction of Yui but most importan the reaction of Yuki making all this "rational" solutions instead of saying that she didn´t want Hikkigaya to suffer again.

Losalma
>>106408908

Sorry if something doesn't make sense, English is not my first language and even if I can talk normally or understand almost everything I'mi was no use to the grammar rules because I don't have opportunities to practice. Love your content and I really appreciated that you´re willing in giving every show a chance of delivering its message

Nabi
>>106397321

lmao no, it's so dumb, it has nothing to do with being younger. It wasn't as bad as the previous problem that he solved, but it's still the same method, he still relies on it and affect his mental. Yui was mad because he's smart and can find better ways to do things. This is like the whole point of the story since chapter 1.

Oisif

Man, I love this show, just so much discussions from everyone watching this trying to figure out every word the character is saying

Nabi

Yeah Yuki also did the same thing, you're right Sheera. But, it wasn't portrayed as a good method and at the end they understood the right way to do things. Remember, them being in Volunteers club is because they themselves had/have problems and need to overcome it, it's not just for solving other's problems.

Wrëck

Discussions are cool guys but it wouldn’t be a true reaction if you’re continuously forcing your opinions on them. Everybody got their point off roshi addressed it now let’s just enjoy the show

Wrëck

The only thing that’s helped me piece shit together is the teacher. Every 1v1 with her and hiki she’s been breaking it down like “you won’t be able to help someone when you want to” and then in a recent episode she also said something else that flushed out what he’s doing. Other than I’m trying to figure out yuki’s sister other than her flat out giving hiki hints that yuki is into him or at least cares for him I kinda feel like she’s trying to help him in another way like I feel like she’s trying to gauge his emotions

Ice

I think last episode was less about the gravity of the situation, and more that Yui and Yuki thought Hachiman would stop doing shit like this after the school festival, and in the end, he didn't. He still views himself as this sacrificial pawn to make the whole situation better, but giving up his pride as a result. Sure, Yuki, Hayama, Ebina and Yui might understand that the confession wasn't real, but the rumor could easily spread (especially with how dumb Tobe is), and it would only further affect how everyone views Hachiman as this awkward person to be around.

Ice

I really like it when you guys discuss and even criticize the things you're watching. It really makes your reactions feel more genuine, instead of most other reactors that just put on a facade and overreact to the smallest things. I'd love to see more.

KeYo

that scene at master donut was a bit much. im here on my own you sit yourselt next to me and then someone from my past comes and you wanna play games like i honestly would have just walked out. hiki takes on too much shit from people tbh

Ice

One small detail I REALLY like about this episode is how Hachiman switches from buying his favorite drink to something different, as if he's trying to tell himself that everyone else is dumb because they don't want change. In reality, he only does this to lie to himself as if he hasn't been in stasis for the last 5 years or so. The real person not wanting to change is Hachiman, not just Hayama's group

Nabi
>>106399455

Good thing is that he just doesn't take the comment section's words for granted (even though we might be right) and still express his point of view. That also creates a small discussion between us and him, which is quite nice and makes the reaction video more real IMO.

Amphyprion

That's precisely the point. Even if the outcome of that specific situation wasn't bad for Hachiman himself, the way he goes about doing stuff is inherently wrong for those around him. He keeps self-sacrificing to solve other people's problems. It's the method that's wrong, not the outcome. He would've done the same even if the people involved weren't aware of what was going on.

Luffy_77

The root of the issue is that Hikki keeps sacrificing himself and his image for others and then trying to pretend like he doesn't care how other people see him when in reality he is a loner because he cares too much about what others think of him

Cal Day
>>106413724

I mostly agree with this, but with one correction. There's nothing "inherently wrong" with how he does things. If that's how he wants to solve problems, then that's his choice. The issue is exactly as Hiratsuka-sensei said. Eventually, if he keeps using these methods, he won't be able to protect what he actually wants, or even know how. Self-sacrifice can't solve everything he faces.

ShaquanVirse

It's Hikki's friends who suffer not him. Example imagine Lupa putting himself in horrible situations where maybe he won't mind but as his friends you're watching him take Ls and watching people say terrible shit about him because of it. It hurts to watch that friend go through all this bullshit for the sake of others

Cal Day

Hey guys, I know there's A LOT of long comments explaining the intricacies and small details of all the characters on this post. I was going to do the same, but then saw everyone else's and thought it unnecessary. Just wanted to take the time to say I appreciate your discussion at the beginning of the episode because I was one of the people who tried to explain on the previous one. I STRONGLY DISAGREE WITH THE PEOPLE SAYING TO CHECK OUT REDDIT POSTS. I LIKE THAT YOU WANT TO FORM YOUR OWN OPINION. You don't have to understand every little subtle allusion in the show to enjoy it. It just makes it better for people like me who love the show. I don't want to sound like a broken record after all these other comments, so I'll mention one important thing. THIS SHOW IS VERY TRUE TO HIGH SCHOOL BEHAVIOR AND HOW TEENAGERS ACT, ESPECIALLY IN SCHOOL. Yes, everyone present at Tobe's confession understood what was going on, except for Tobe. However, Tobe and his friends present can go on to tell the rest of their friend group, who can go on to tell their other friends. Rumors formulate and suddenly everyone start glaring and whispering. This is exactly what happened with the culture festival , as well. I understand your argument that Hachiman didn't "take an L", but that only related to his immediate company at the time. There are always repercussions for anything you say or do in high school because word always gets around. Sorry for the long comment, I know you guys are probably tired of them. You guys are the best. :)

Dolfy (edited)

Comment edits

2023-04-15 17:36:24 I'll ad my two cents again to counter your counters/questions/points. Basically, Yui and Yuki can't read read Hiki's mind. They know he's a loner and that they can crack jokes about it openly to each other but Yui and Yuki don't know how he actually feels deep down. If he's scarred for life because past shit or if he's really not phased by jokes/insults/scapegoated situations. They can't read his mind. So that's why in the confessions scenario, YES, everyone was in on it (except the dude actually wanted to confess) so in theory there would be nothing to feel bad about, BUT, only Hiki knows how he feels. Openly he seems okay with it, which is all we know as the viewer, but the others don't know know for sure either. So because they care about him, they worry that it's really damaging him inside. It's like scenarios where a wife has a bum husband that don't work and give him money to blow it on smokes and acts totally fine with it in front of others and doesn't want to say it's a problem. As a friend on the outside you can't help but feel like she's struggling inside.
2023-04-15 15:33:35 I'll ad my two cents again to counter your counters/questions/points. Basically, Yui and Yuki can't read read Hiki's mind. They know he's a loner and that they can crack jokes about it openly to each other but Yui and Yuki don't know how he actually feels deep down. If he's scarred for life because past shit or if he's really not phased by jokes/insults/scapegoated situations. They can't read his mind. So that's why in the confessions scenario, YES, everyone was in on it (except the dude actually wanted to confess) so in theory there would be nothing to feel bad about, BUT, only Hiki knows how he feels. Openly he seems okay with it, which is all we know as the viewer, but the others don't know know for sure either. So because they care about him, they worry that it's really damaging him inside. It's like scenarios where a wife has a bum husband that don't work and give him money to blow it on smokes and acts totally fine with it in front of others and doesn't want to say it's a problem. As a friend on the outside you can't help but feel like she's struggling inside. EDIT: Sheera comin real close to unraveling the situation. Kudos. There is for sure a disconnect between what Yuki and Yui know for sure and what Hiki's actually feeling/thinking since they can be dense when it comes to conveying themselves seriously. Loving the reactions and your deep dive talk at the beginning though. 10/10

I'll ad my two cents again to counter your counters/questions/points. Basically, Yui and Yuki can't read read Hiki's mind. They know he's a loner and that they can crack jokes about it openly to each other but Yui and Yuki don't know how he actually feels deep down. If he's scarred for life because past shit or if he's really not phased by jokes/insults/scapegoated situations. They can't read his mind. So that's why in the confessions scenario, YES, everyone was in on it (except the dude actually wanted to confess) so in theory there would be nothing to feel bad about, BUT, only Hiki knows how he feels. Openly he seems okay with it, which is all we know as the viewer, but the others don't know know for sure either. So because they care about him, they worry that it's really damaging him inside. It's like scenarios where a wife has a bum husband that don't work and give him money to blow it on smokes and acts totally fine with it in front of others and doesn't want to say it's a problem. As a friend on the outside you can't help but feel like she's struggling inside. EDIT: Sheera comin real close to unraveling the situation. Kudos. There is for sure a disconnect between what Yuki and Yui know for sure and what Hiki's actually feeling/thinking since they can be dense when it comes to conveying themselves seriously. Loving the reactions and your deep dive talk at the beginning though. 10/10

Norrin Radd

Y’all the best Patreon frfr! Y’all really give the Normies a run for their money! 🐐💩

Adamantite Momon
>>106423452

I don't follow their patreon but Normies' youtube content are far below Roshi's in my opinion...sure their interactions are fun but the many of the choices of their shows do not have the depth like Roshi's with plenty of them being the mainstream shows which every reactors have reacted to like aot,hero academia

Sergio
>>106403218

still doesn’t make sense why they have to react that way. if he wants to do it that way then let him, if not then tell him. they’re not straight forward with him that’s the thing. that’s what pisses me off about them in that episode.

AonixGhostlyQ (edited)

Comment edits

2023-04-15 21:27:45 People were upset with Hachiman last episode not because of the result but cause of the method. sure the stituation turned out find but the choice Hikki made was to throw himself in the line of fire, even if the people understood why he did it that doesn't they are happy about it. Method & result are diffrent aspects just because one is "good" doesnt mean the other is. He could of done it another way,instead he burn himself alive to get the answer, even if they put the fire out hand he survives it,even if he is immune to fire damage it still hurts those who care about him resort to such tactics.
2023-04-15 19:25:21 People were upset with Hachiman last episode not because of the result but cause of the method. sure the stituation turned out find but the choice Hikki made was to throw himself in the line of fire, even if the people understood why he did it that doesn't they are happy about it. Method & result are diffrent aspects just because one is "good" doesnt mean the other is. He could of done it another way,instead he burn himself alive to get the answer, even if they put the fire out hand he survives it,even if he is immune to fire damage it still hurts those who care about him resort to such tactics.

People were upset with Hachiman last episode not because of the result but cause of the method. sure the stituation turned out find but the choice Hikki made was to throw himself in the line of fire, even if the people understood why he did it that doesn't they are happy about it. Method & result are diffrent aspects just because one is "good" doesnt mean the other is. He could of done it another way,instead he burn himself alive to get the answer, even if they put the fire out hand he survives it,even if he is immune to fire damage it still hurts those who care about him resort to such tactics.

NecDW4

Im with Roshi on this one. Everyone knew exactly what time it was, 8 Man wasnt "hurting himself", because he literally had no stake and didnt care. He wasnt "sacrificing himself" getting rejected, he was just giving Ebina a way to let homeboy down gently. Yeah, Yuki and Yui rightfully dont want to see him hurting himself, but at the same time they need to understand he WASNT being hurt, and theyre getting upset over the only soultion that made sure NOBODY felt bad, including 8 Man himself.

Ndricim Haziri

Tbh I'm with Roshi as in, yes i understand Hachiman's sacrificing himself, but on that specific problem, HE DIDN'T SACRIFICE, like he wasn't hurt, he wasn't painted like a bad guy, yes other people may think oh Hachiman got rejected and have bad rumors and shit about him but, Yukinon is always talking about how she don't care what other people think. Soo...

nemui
>>106441100

I get what you are saying but that’s not the point people are saying. Yes he wasn’t hurt by the others for putting on an act but he did hurt himself by lying to the girls and himself. He did sacrifice himself by prioritizing others over himself. The confession, the method he said to the girls that there is a way to make things work out , and the excuse he said to Yui were all lies. He even said at the end of the episode that “the biggest liar of all was me” implying that he wasn’t honest with what he was doing and his feeling.

Infinity

BEST GIRL HAS ENTERED THE RING. ALL HAIL IROHA.

DANIEL PEREZ

for me it's like this hachiman once in the club he leave all the home stuff and put on the persona of the helper/fixer and once that job is done he take that persona off and put on his hachiman hat, but the girls can't separate their own feelings. when a job must be done he will do whatever it takes but the girls like sheera said they feel bad for him and all the hate he gets but like he said he doesn't care what other think as long as the task is done correctly

JayX-B

Basically even though you can confess to someone and not really mean it, you still take a blow from the rejection, its like someone coming out and randomly saying they didn't like you. Which is extra traumatic for someone like him who was constantly rejected in his past. Aside from that he also did it in front of everyone, which is embarrassing and also leads to more bad rumors. He may seem like the type to not let things bother him but the truth is he's a sensitive boy.

Sergio
>>106399455

that’s true, but people are telling them that they’re missing the point because they don’t agree. that’s dumb

Sergio
>>106397321

so far this is one of the best explanations we’ve had on here. thx for the explanation

Cameron Robinson

I think it’s Hikki mindset and methods that they have a problem with the most. Last episode was just another example and a hard breaking point for Yuki and a soft one for Yui. Hikki first plan for solving their next problem was to have him make a fool of himself in front the school. I think it shows how little he cares about his perception even though it has consequences for himself and others. Next part is recaps of some examples so far of Hikki’s plans that sacrifice his or others’ perception/reputation to help: -Gets high schoolers to threaten children with harm to get a former friend group to band together -Complain about others not doing their share of work in a way that makes himself look lazy in order to help Yuki and also make Sagami look bad -Basically cussed out Sagami so the attention is drawn away from her delaying the award announcement to him cussing her out and giving her a reason as to why she sucks so bad later -Confessing in front of three people who weren’t in on it being a lie and could spread rumors about it to others to save someone else’s friend group from getting awkward Now, for the most part it doesn’t look like these situations have caused consequences, but I think one example that’s very subtle is that when Hikki met up with Yuki at the tiger rocks, you can see the girls from her class were shocked, and maybe even a little disgusted, or at least not happy to see Yuki talking with Hikki

Humble_Nomad

Roshi you got it man, other ppl proly gonna try to force a sense of 'why' something's wrong but it's because they know the future plot. With what you've gather the rest of the story and themes will make sense naturally. Best to ignore ppl making big claims about how ppl 'suppose to' feel.

Noel Cruz (edited)

Comment edits

2023-04-16 18:59:05 I love when ya'll have long discussions at the beginning ngl
2023-04-16 16:54:34 I love when ya'll have long discussions at the beginning ngl

I love when ya'll have long discussions at the beginning ngl

Alban Haxhija
>>106403218

It’s because they have genuine feelings for him. Yuki and Yui know how great of a guy he is, so it kills a them to see him at the center of all the school’s hate. I don’t know about you, but if someone I truly cared about is being shunned by the entire school and they are putting themselves in that position (for no personal gain) I would be upset and hurt. Hope that helps!

Sergio
>>106403218

that’s not even true, it’s just an obvious guess. the thing is tho i’m not upset about yui, i’m more upset about yuki because she shows no feelings that she cares about him and now all of a sudden she cares and act like he was supposed to know that. i don’t care what anyone says yuki will always be backwards to me.

StolenChakra

I dont know if any one said it but the "L" Hikki took is he likes to Handle things straight forward but he had to lie and hide the truth. It's one of the reasons he respects Yuki so much

Dan

I think the part of him getting the L is the public perception of him, because in last episode when he sits at the rock and starts talking to Yuki those girls look at him like he's an asshole which is how the rest of the school outside those he's helped view him, as an asshole. Also there was the other friends there that didn't know him like that and it could look like he was being a dick by stealing the confession which could turn into even more rumors of him doing socially "untasteful" stuff since Tobe came to him for help and he "stole" the confession. It's not an L if you don't care about social standing but it is an L to your public social standing by doing stuff like that, especially when he has the "history" of him being an asshole even if he's really not. It's basically them being hurt because they all know hes nice and not being a dick just to be a dick but using himself as the social scape goat to save anyone else from being socially embarrassed hence him talking about how everyone would start rumors and talking behind your back as if your gross because you got rejected. Just my opinion tho

Dan (edited)

Comment edits

2023-04-16 23:45:35 Also although they all knew he wasn't serious, like Yui and Yuki for example don't know that ebina knows it wasn't real as hachiman talked to her by himself most of the time where he got the hints that she doesn't want any of them so to them he did just go embarrass himself in their eyes aswell. And Tobi was actually seeing him as kind of a friend so to have your "friend" come up and steal your confession after you asked him to help you is a bad look. Especially since we saw tobi had a bad opinion of Hachiman before the trip and was always chatting shite so he could go back to that with everyone finding out that he's a "back stabber". I think yall are only looking at the perception of hachi within the actual named characters of the show who mostly understand him but its implied that this gets around like at the festival where the whole school hated him.
2023-04-16 21:45:25 Also although they all knew he wasn't serious, like Yui and Yuki for example, don't know that ebina knows it wasn't real as hachiman talked to her by himself most of the time where he got the hints that she doesn't want any of them so to them he did just go embarrass himself in their eyes aswell. And Tobi was actually seeing him as kind of a friend so to have your "friend" come up and steal your confession after you asked him to help you is a bad look. Especially since we saw tobi had a bad opinion of Hachiman before the trip and was always chatting shite so he could go back to that with everyone finding out that he's a "back stabber". I think yall are only looking at the perception of hachi within the actual named characters of the show who mostly understand him but its implied that this gets around like at the festival where the whole school hated him.
>>106501288

Also although they all knew he wasn't serious, like Yui and Yuki for example, don't know that ebina knows it wasn't real as hachiman talked to her by himself most of the time where he got the hints that she doesn't want any of them so to them he did just go embarrass himself in their eyes aswell. And Tobi was actually seeing him as kind of a friend so to have your "friend" come up and steal your confession after you asked him to help you is a bad look. Especially since we saw tobi had a bad opinion of Hachiman before the trip and was always chatting shite so he could go back to that with everyone finding out that he's a "back stabber". I think yall are only looking at the perception of hachi within the actual named characters of the show who mostly understand him but its implied that this gets around like at the festival where the whole school hated him.

James Munns
>>106441100

I only a few of them knew it wasn’t real but like when he told chick that ran off to the roof about herself it got round the school he was mean to her same as this situation it will get round the school that he got rejected that’s how I felt about the situation anyway

Arkan Matlub
>>106444738

In personal relationship, sure, hachiman wasn't "sacrificing" himself, but the thing is he's hurting himself and his "reputation" in order to do things. That's just psychologically damaging. In interpersonal relationships, yui and yuki gets hurt seeing Hachiman hurt himself, even if he himself doesn't care. That's why last episode after the false confession, Hayama told him "I'm sorry", because Hachiman's only solution is to make himself the loser. He may not be sacrificing himself, but he's sacrificing the relationships he has

Arkan Matlub
>>106460236

"big claims" were made by people who've watched this far, and people who've already seen it. "Big claims" isn't just claims, it is backed up with evidence of the series SO FAR

Arkan Matlub

While your guys rebuttal was valid, Hikigaya at the end of the episode last episode, said to yui "Every word that comes out of my mouth is just a fallacious argument". And at the last line of that episode, he said "The biggest liar was me". He's lying to himself of not caring about the L and the consequenses that stems from it. Obviously he's recognizing his methods being disruptive to himself

Ndricim Haziri
>>106444738

Yeah but Yuki on episode 1 was like, I don't act based on what people think about me and it's not important, so now that people think less of hachiman it shouldn't matter either.

Drake Rage

The biggest "L" for Hikkigaya was in the festival where he talked back to the head of the committee on the rooftop where he made himself the "bad guy" even though we think she deserved it, but the students were like "wow such a fuckin asshole, come lets get back to the festival" and convinced the girl to come back and make her closing speech. Apparently that was a huge issue that made Hikki a bad guy for the whole school, like that made him the most hated guy at school, so the last episode was not a big L but the people who care about him can't see him continue hurting himself for others even if it is in a small way because he already made a huge sacrifice during the school festival, so they are basically begging him like "pls stop, no more, stop sacrificing yourself for others."

Spearbearer Josh

Roshi and Sheera looked away at one of the most crucial moments of the episode. Haruno pulled a really serious face and said that it was lame Yukino didnt run for president because she herself didnt run either.

Ryujin (edited)

Comment edits

2023-04-18 16:40:37 If there is one thing the characters in this show need to do is communicate especially yukino since she starts talking then stops or just doesn’t explain what she means
2023-04-18 16:36:01 If there is one thing the characters in this show need to do is communicate especially yukino since she starts talking then stops or just doesn’t explain what she means

If there is one thing the characters in this show need to do is communicate especially yukino since she starts talking then stops or just doesn’t explain what she means

Lukas

"'It was the most efficient way to do it. That's all' It was the only thing that would come out of my mouth. I could have explained it in more logical terms. I know I could use the fanciest rhetorical flourishes to rationalize what I'd done. But the words just coiled up in the pit of my stomach and rotted there. [...] As I spoke, I became aware of it myself: Agh, this is just mincing words. It was just an excuse to falsely lay the responsibility for what I'd done on the shoulders of some formless someone." Hachiman was definitely aware that there was something wrong about the way he handled the Ebina-Tobe situation. This isn't Yukino and Yui getting upset with him over nothing. Even in the show Hachiman's thought posthoc clearly indicated that he himself was upset about the thing that he did so saying that it was Yukino and Yui who made him feel bad about it and blaming them makes no sense. As for the L, that comes from the fact that Hachiman used a Method that he himself finds distasteful to help people who he doesn't care about with a problem that, as you said, they should figure out themselves within their group.

Lukas

"Avoiding the root issue". Lets take Tobe as an example and Hachimans method to resolve it. By confessing to Ebina he managed to stop Tobe from being rejected but he circumvented the root cause of the problem: the fact that their relationship is fundamentally Superficial and that they are unwilling to risk pain in order to achieve something more genuine. second example Tsurumi Rumi: Hachiman broke the group that bullied her apart which meant that she was no longer directly targeted by them but it didn't help in ending Rumi's isolation. in the end, Rumi was still alone. This is what Yukino meant when she said that Hachiman never addresses the root of the problem and it's what Hiratsuka meant when she said "The way you do things - when you meet someone you really want to help, you won't be able to do it".

Novafan

What im gathering from how Haruno is acting is she sees hachiman as a good partner for yukinon and thinks they would work well together so she's kind've already acting like an older sister by teasing him and messing with him to try to make him grow past his weaknesses but in a much less effective way than sensei. She goes too far, maybe because she doesn't have much time with yukinon so all the time she does spend with her future step-brother is very clingy and obsessive as a way to make up for all that lost sibling time.