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Oregairu 2x2 (Patreon)

Published:
2023-04-14 02:12:18
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a bunch of avoiders lol

Comments

wavyesper

I gotta go into why Yui and yukino was upset. Hachiman hurt himself. They hated seeing him do that because they really care about him. He has been doing what he has been doing for a long time but he doesn't realize that things changed.

Tuny kun

Good conversation at the end. Hikigaya the next shield hero over here, taking the damage for everyone.

blue snivy

this shit hit so well with me back in the day and now its pretty cool to watch now that i understand how cringe i was

Devin B

At the beginning when those three girls were giving the stink eye look that wasn't because of Yukino but because Hikigaya currently has a bad reputation because of what he did to Sagiri.

Devante Vickers
>>106318982

He did, but now he should understand what the other characters are feeling with him.

Jman1738
>>106318683

Yeah roshi and sheera r kinda looking too surface level bout the reason y yui and yuki were upset. Its not really them wanting him to be considerate of their feelings but more they want hachiman to care about himself more. Throughout the cultural festival and then this episode, hachiman repeatedly makes plans tht put himself in the line of fire and facing the brunt of the blowback. He sacrifices himself to get the job done. Thats wht was rubbing yui and yuki to wrong way.

Cal Day

I don't normally leave comments, but I felt obligated to do so this time. I watched the video to the end, and you guys were so close, but weren't able to connect the two. When Yukino says that she "hates the way he does things" she is referring to him taking everyone's negative feelings upon himself. Hayama mentioned the same thing, as well. Even though Yui (and maybe Yukino) was shocked at first when he "confessed", she was also talking about how he hurts himself to get the job done when she told him to think about how other people feel. She cares about him, and doesn't want to see him hurt. This is my favorite anime, and I was really excited when I saw you guys were reacting to it. I just get frustrated when you guys misinterpret some things because I want you to really enjoy this show. Hope I was able to make sense.

Dolfy

Dang you guys 80% misinterpreted what the players meant this episode. Enjoyed the reactions for sure and not sure if you read these but the misdirects are landing hard on you guys. I don't think it's spoiler to say since blonde boy's already expressed his problem with it, but they're upset that Hiki is putting himself in the villain role and taking hits. Their "feelings" are that they care about his own well being. It wasn't a jealousy love heart break type of thing. That's why in the previous episode they stood up for him in their club room. Cause they didn't like him being treated like that and, in this case, even treating himself like that. Roshi get some brownie points for picking up on season 1 plot.

Devin B
>>106318683

It really goes back to what the teacher said to Hikigaya after he told Sagiri off near the end of last season. Sometimes the people close to you don't want to see you get hurt even if it's from your own hands.

Diego

now begins the real pain train for our boi hiki

Kami_Psy

I think part of the reason they were so upset is that he self-sacrifices too much. Every time he comes up with a solution to a problem it involves making him look like the bad guy or him taking the L in the situation. Since they like him, they don't want to see him suffering all the time. I think them being jealous played a role but it wasn't the main thing they didn't like about his plan.

quxntum
>>106319999

this also ties back to when he said those things to sagami and hayato got mad at him for going about it the way he did and not exactly for what he said

Kévin Chamberlin

I thought Yui meant he should be more considerate of his own feelings

Hello
>>106319999

Completely agree. The same thing happened with hayato. Hikigaya does this assuming nobody will care for him until he realizes people actually DO care for him.

Devin B

Honestly the caption you made is a perfect explanation for most of the situations in this show. Most of these kids try to avoid confrontation if possible and wants things to stay status quo. Hikigaya's methods will get you the desired solution you want but it avoids the fundamental problem of the issue and basically allows you to not deal with it. His methods are like giving someone the answer to a question and you don't tell them the steps to get the answer, it helps them for the moment but it doesn't help them grow.

Josh
>>106320947

Yep exactly that + how him hurting himself also hurts the ones that care for him

Hello
>>106318683

Exactly. He always does it assuming nobody will care but people do care about him enough to well care. He has to realize this throughout the series. It's a pretty sad representation of self-deprecation tbh as one video put it. I don't really blame them for missing this though because this is one of those shows that requires more time to think on it and maybe even a rewatch to see what the characters actually mean tbh

Drake Chuckle

Good long form convo at the end, btw. Like when you guys do some longer discussions after!

Mad4Life

They're not reading the comments you guys. They would've been known why Yui and Yuki are always getting upset at Hikki if they knew.

Devin B

Also Roshi the thing you said at the end about how you felt mad that Hikigaya is being made to be the scapegoat is pretty much how Hayato, Yukino, and Yui feel but one thing you have to understand is that no one is forcing him to be the scapegoat. Hikigaya's figures that if he has to sacrifice himself to make others happy then it's a good tradeoff but there are some people who don't like seeing him be put in that position. Hayato feels bad because he felt like Hikigaya was forced to be the scapegoat, Yukino is mad mostly because he's avoiding the fundamental issue with his methods, and Yui wants Hikigaya to actually think about what his actions does to the people around him.

UI

Yo, roshi and shira, ya'll are still kinda misunderstanding what yuki and yui are mad about. They're not mad because they are jealous. The know that what he did was an act. They hate that he is still sacrificing himself in order to help others. Just like Hayama, they also see how kind and worthy Hachiman is and to see him purposely embarrass and sacrifice himself for the sake of others doesn't sit well with them.

Arturo1629

The misinterpretation of the confession scene is crazy , they care about him . And to see him sacrifice himself and be the one that takes the fall and embarrassment makes them feel sad for him . Well in this scenario they were more mad than sad . This show isn’t jus a simple romcom. It’s writing has depth to it . Y’all will see as the story progresses . W reaction tho

Sami Mottaghian (edited)

Comment edits

2023-04-14 05:55:58 Hey guys, you probably wont read this but I think you should try reading the reddit discussion threads after you watch the episodes if you're confused. The top comments are moderated for spoilers and whenever I was confused watching the show they helped me out alot. The show only gets more confusing from here on out, and while I think you guys are close to figuring out on these episodes what the characters are feeling some of the later episodes can really throw you off, since the characters in this show talk in a very vague way. Just a suggestion I think would be nice.
2023-04-14 03:54:59 Hey guys, you probably wont read this but I think you should try reading the reddit discussion threads after you watch the episodes if you're confused. The top comments are moderated for spoilers and whenever I was confused watching the show they helped me out alot. The show only gets more confusing from here on out, and while I think you guys are close to figuring out what the characters are thinking on these episodes some of the later episodes can really throw you off, since they talk in a very vague way. Just a suggestion I think would be nice.

Hey guys, you probably wont read this but I think you should try reading the reddit discussion threads after you watch the episodes if you're confused. The top comments are moderated for spoilers and whenever I was confused watching the show they helped me out alot. The show only gets more confusing from here on out, and while I think you guys are close to figuring out what the characters are thinking on these episodes some of the later episodes can really throw you off, since they talk in a very vague way. Just a suggestion I think would be nice.

Lyon

The fact that they gave him their trust to resolve the situation only for him to do it in the method they hate (One where only he gets hurt" is why they reacted the way they did.

Valentino Garay

Your close of what the real problem is, but if you think about first season again you can see how Hachiman always finds a self destructive solution like he can “bare the hate” or whatever for everything to “work out” and the girls don’t mind that much but as the come closer together they get hurt seeing his friend getting hurt, getting the blame, being the scapegoat always because it’s the “best method for him for everything to work out” except he’s getting the bad shit always It hurts seeing your friend suffering, you feel it too At the same time I think yukinoshita and yui are to blame too because they already known how hachiman mine tends for find the “solution” but they still in this episode said to him “We trust you, you got it” like wtf no Say something to prevent your friend from do the thing you know he does to find a “happy all solution, except for himself…”

NecDW4

"Buncha fuckin teenagers, man" is pretty much the perfect summary for this series.

Sergio
>>106323221

exactly that’s what i said in the episode at the rooftop. hikki always just goes for the lowest hanging fruit and doesn’t think about others.

Sergio

yeah i agree with everyone else here, y’all kinda misinterpreted the scene a little bit. don’t worry tho i was definitely just like y’all. it ties back into the part where hayama and hikki got into it on the roof because he had to be so extra. hikki doesn’t look for the best solution, only the easiest way out. however this season does an amazing job for his development, this season was by far my favorite in terms of character development for all three of the characters (the other two get that in the finale).

Sung Woong

Non-Spoiler Hint for Roshi and Sheera: Yuki and Yui hate Hikki’s “method” of devaluing himself to the point that he becomes the punching bag and scapegoat for everyone else’s problems. They do care about him and they hate seeing him take the logic leaps in his head that he should be the “loser” and take everything on by himself, rather than trusting and relying on people.

DBR

misinterpretation lol

Spearbearer Josh

Conversely, there are a lot of romance anime with older characters, where communication is so refreshing and development moves without the angsty drama

Losalma

I think you´re on point when you say they avoiders, that´s in fact correct and yeah is no a very healthy way of living life but we need to remember that we are rationalism, the situacion whit our western perspective. One of the things that i really like about this anime and light novel is that it does a great job in explaining how japanese society works and how they live social live. Actually Hikki did the "correct" thing in avoiding tobe to get rejected because japanese people don´t like to say no to a level that is too extreme, so if tobe was the one getting rejected, the group would have fallen apart because thats how japanese society works. It´s fuck, but you can read a lot of storys of western people losing japanese friends for things like this.

nemui (edited)

Comment edits

2023-04-14 08:09:04 Something that I think is really great about the scene with Hachiman and the girls after the “confession”, is that Hachiman doesn’t understand why Yukino and Yui hate the way he does things. And it all ties back to what he did at the Cultural Festival and Hayama apologizing about having to rely on Hachiman even though he too hates that this is the only way Hachiman knows how to do things. If you remember what Hiratsuka-sensei said in S1E12 "You need to realize already that there are people who will find it painful to see you hurt like this.". In this episode, we see it realized, and while Yui may have been obvious and we see her cry, it's not her but Yukino the one who gets hurt the most, he betrayed the faith she put on him and Hachiman realized it, in the shot where she walks past him, we couldn't see his eyes, but the symbolism in the scene is quite telling. It’s about self-sacrifice; sacrificing himself is the only way Hachiman knows how to do things. To become the equivalent to the “Hanged Man” is the only way he knows how to fix a situation. And the girls hate it because they care about him, and he’s not used to others caring about him. He doesn’t get it and they hate that he always sacrificing himself; because it doesn’t matter, self-sacrifice still ends in the word sacrifice. He still willingly hurts himself in the end.
2023-04-14 06:00:14 About the scene with Hachiman and the girls after the “confession”, is that Hachiman doesn’t understand why Yukino and Yui hate the way he does things. And it all ties back to what he did at the Cultural Festival and Hayama apologizing about having to rely on Hachiman even though he too hates that this is the only way Hachiman knows how to do things. If you remember what Hiratsuka-sensei said in S1E12 "You need to realize already that there are people who will find it painful to see you hurt like this.". In this episode, we see it realized, and while Yui may have been obvious and we see her cry, it's not her but Yukino the one who gets hurt the most, he betrayed the faith she put on him and Hachiman realized it, in the shot where she walks past him, we couldn't see his eyes, but the symbolism in the scene is quite telling. It’s about self-sacrifice; sacrificing himself is the only way Hachiman knows how to do things. To become the equivalent to the “Hanged Man” is the only way he knows how to fix a situation. And the girls hate it because they care about him, and he’s not used to others caring about him. He doesn’t get it and they hate that he always sacrificing himself; because it doesn’t matter, self-sacrifice still ends in the word sacrifice. He still willingly hurts himself in the end.

About the scene with Hachiman and the girls after the “confession”, is that Hachiman doesn’t understand why Yukino and Yui hate the way he does things. And it all ties back to what he did at the Cultural Festival and Hayama apologizing about having to rely on Hachiman even though he too hates that this is the only way Hachiman knows how to do things. If you remember what Hiratsuka-sensei said in S1E12 "You need to realize already that there are people who will find it painful to see you hurt like this.". In this episode, we see it realized, and while Yui may have been obvious and we see her cry, it's not her but Yukino the one who gets hurt the most, he betrayed the faith she put on him and Hachiman realized it, in the shot where she walks past him, we couldn't see his eyes, but the symbolism in the scene is quite telling. It’s about self-sacrifice; sacrificing himself is the only way Hachiman knows how to do things. To become the equivalent to the “Hanged Man” is the only way he knows how to fix a situation. And the girls hate it because they care about him, and he’s not used to others caring about him. He doesn’t get it and they hate that he always sacrificing himself; because it doesn’t matter, self-sacrifice still ends in the word sacrifice. He still willingly hurts himself in the end.

MT

Man they just can’t get the read right huh

Souleymane Seye
>>106327036

damn bro thanks for explaining I basically thought it was what you said but I wasn't sure and you went into a lot of detail so I appreciate it.

Reuben Filimaua
>>106321037

And that is Yukino's problem with his method. Not Just cos she cares about him and hates seeing him hurt himself (esp for people who don't deserve his help), but because he also isn't really helping them with anything. He's enabling them a way out of avoiding the root problem. Maintaining a fake superficial status quo which doesn't allow anyone to grow.

Jose silva

Roshi nailed it on the head Hiki was basically made himself the scapegoat for everybody to maintain the status qou that the group wanted and thats why Yuki and Yui were upset because his methos always make him out to be the villain or the person getting hurt.

Random Guy

The teacher already explained it during the school festival. The reason Hayama, Yuigahama and Yukinoshita is so upset, is because while all of Hikigaya's solutions are brilliant, he's always the only one who gets the short end of the stick, but he doesn't notice that seeing him get hurt also hurts the people who are concerned about him. Also I think the main reason why Ebina thinks it will work out if she dated Hikigaya, is because even if they dated, nothing will essentially change. Normally when you date someone in your friend group, you start treating her differently and it changes the dynamics of the relationships around you. But Hikigaya isn't that type of person , nor is he part of her friendship circles so essentlally nothing will change for her.

Ice (edited)

Comment edits

2023-04-14 11:31:31 One thing I find really interesting about Hachiman is how much of a hypocrit he is. He goes on these rants about how Hayama's friend group is too shallow if they could just fall apart from a single confession, but in the end, that's what he worries might happen to his own friend group the most.
2023-04-14 09:21:36 One thing I find really interesting about Hachiman is how much of a hypocrite he is. He goes on these rants about how Hayama's friend group is too shallow if they could just fall apart from a single confession, but in the end, that's what he worries might happen to his own friend group the most.

One thing I find really interesting about Hachiman is how much of a hypocrite he is. He goes on these rants about how Hayama's friend group is too shallow if they could just fall apart from a single confession, but in the end, that's what he worries might happen to his own friend group the most.

Rue Ryuuzaki

again, hikigaya is not dense. He knows what's up.

Infinity

guys they just don't like hiki throwing himself under the bus for others. He took the rejection and embarassment for tobe at his own expense. The girls staring at yuki when she was talking to him was a hint at how the school feels about him. Imagine you have a friend you like to hang out with but everyone at school hates them and gives you weird looks and ends up hating you too for associating with him. Gotta go back into highschool drama mindset to understand this show lol.

KeYo

instead of always making him out to be the dense dude why not just be real with him ? he is pretty straight forward so why not be straight forward with him? what is all this you should know how i feel or thinking like no im not professor x just tell me how you feel and we work on that why do they make guys seem like they supposed to be mind readers? just say what you wanna say lol

TropicSlayer

I don't think yui and Yukio were mad because they liked him. I think they were upset that they cared about him but he still sacrifices himself for everyone and turns himself into a scapegoat to solve problems. Like what the teacher was saying in the other episode

nemui
>>106332787

I don't think he's a hypocrite at all. In fact, I can't even understand where you get the idea of he's worried about his friend group. He doesn't even have friends to begin with lol (JK).

nemui
>>106319745

I completely agree with you. I hope they read the comments.

Imari
>>106338018

It’s cause he understands why they are mad. They don’t appreciate him throwing himself under the bus every time cause it “works out well for everyone else”. In this episode he confessed for the other dude so he would get rejected keeping the friend group un awkward. But in turn it makes him look bad for being asked to help and confessing that he likes the girl in front of the entire group of friends. Now Hikki looks mad weird for even helping with the plan just to “steal the thunder”. Even when the other red haired chick was being really annoying he talked shit about her to her face in order to get everyone to be pissed off at him instead of her even though she wasn’t doing her job. Now her friends and the whole school think he’s some douchbag slacker. With all that in account him being friends with the two girls also creates problems. They know that’s he’s doing these things for other benefit but in everyone else’s eyes they and both friends with the most insufferable guy at school. So when they say “think about how others feel” they are just saying he should consider how he was be affected in these situations or how they make reflect on the both of them.

Mist

All imma say is you guys misundertood the entire Yui and Yukino part with Hikigaya

Oisif

One of the most subtle anime ever, I had to literally made up my own theories as I was watching the show, read between every lines, and go to reddit to see some smart ass make up his own theories. One of the most fun experience I've had watching and analyzing a show.

danial javady
>>106327756

keep in mind they aren't as invested in this show to the people who recommended it. So they will make more mistakes and miss context clues. Also i'd say adjunctively the yuki and yui being more agitated given their feelings isn't actually unlikely.

DANIEL PEREZ
>>106337262

the thing is hachiman understand high school is temporary being an adult is what matters. none of the things you did, the friends all of them wont be with you throughout your life so he has taken a if you dont matter to me I dont need to even interact with you.

Regent

I’m sure someone put this but yukinon and yui were annoyed because his “methods” always end up with him sacrificing himself

Kurumi
>>106329576

also explains Hayama's frustrations with him at the end of the last season.

Danny

yeh this 2nd season was much more confusing than the first when i first watched it. after rewatching it when i was older, the conclusion i came to was that Yukino and Yui disliked how he continuously put himself in bad situations in order to complete the mission. Almost in a "the results justify the means" way but he only hurt himself in order to protect others because to Hikki, hes used to the pain. But he doesnt understand that others hate seeing him hurt. I really dont think it had anything to do with jealousy cuz they knew exactly what he was doing and that he was faking it. Theres alot of subtle nuances and deep analysis from this point forward so it might get confusing at times.

Ale
>>106391400

The guy is so self destructive because 'he has nothing to lose' but in the end he is the only one to feel that pain. Im with Yui in saying that his methods are bad .

Nabi

As it was said before by the teacher, his methods only hurt himself. And as Hachiman already said, he wants no one else to get hurt, so he threw himself under the bus, that's why he became the most hated person in their school. And that's why Yuki and Yui don't like his methods.

Luffy_77

What they don't like about Hikki's methods is that he is always the sacrificial lamb, he's always putting his reputation or himself at the negative view from all the others

Lukas

Yui wasn't (just) bothered by it because Hachiman confessed to another girl when she likes him. A far more important part was that he hurt himself. "... you need to realize that some of us find it painful to watch you get hurt". The thing that Hiratsuka said in episode 1x12 is really important here. Hachiman is a martyr complex. He sacrifices his own emotional wellbeing for people he doesn't necessarily even care about. Yui gets this immediately while yukino doesn't really know why she feels the way she does because she has never been close enough to anyone to understand.

Novafan
>>106327756

tbf this show is unnecessarily verbose or the message is too disconnected from the text sometimes but that is sometimes how teenagers be. Sometimes I look back on my teenage self and can analyze what the hell I was doing and how I was thinking even though I didn't realize in the moment.

FatCat

i relate to this episode so much cause i had to literally do the same thing. only the difference was the guy who wants to confess was my bestfriend and the girl he liked was my crush. i was in 3rd year highschool when i had to tell the girl that my bff wants her, however she wants nothing to do with him but she doesnt want to reject her directly as well. i told her that we could create a scenario where she would reject me in a way that it'll generally reject all the boys around her. so i went to their classroom and got near to my bff then she just shouted that she wants me to stop asking her out cause she doesnt want anyone right now. after that my bff got mad at me saying that he told me all that stuff about liking her only to find out that i was asking out this girl the whole time. he got mad and we went separate ways after that. here we are 16 years later and we never really get to patch things up. thats why guys, make sure to just be straight and let your buddy know if you like the same girl. makes it more easier to avoid this kind of things. sorry for the essay