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Episode 463 - The Invisible Man - Part 2 (Patreon)

Published:
2019-08-20 23:36:23
Imported:
2021-07
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See that? NO YOU DON'T! We're back with more Invisible Man!

Thanks to reader Greig Johnson. Listen to Dr. Snake and the Snake Doctors!

AND MEET US AT NECRONOMICON! We have a live show on Saturday at Noon, and then a party at 8:30 PM the same night! GET INTO IT!

Comments

Anonymous

The Invisible Man gets taught in high school First thought from a teenage boy Girls’s Locker Room Hence Invisible Man never taught in high school .

Anonymous

Well this was a nice surprise! Following your ethical musings near the end there, I don't think it's possible to meaningfully discuss why we have laws--and where a law is needed--without discussing how those laws are going to be enforced. Much of modern law is, by a certain metric, *extremely* inneffective because the way law enforcement is handled is built to cause residivism. Aside from the fact that ex-cons have no safety net and are essentially dumped back into society after being cut off from it for years, the kind of inhumane, authoritarian, slave-labor environment of American prisons, at least, not only does nothing to cause rehabilitation, it exacerbates criminality. Of course, by a very different metric laws and law enforcement are QUITE effective because they continually churn out repeat offenders for the prison industry to profit off of. And that's ignoring the fact that the law enforcement officers themselves aren't beholden to the law in the same way civilians are and can abuse the law with relative impunity, as well as enforce it arbitrarily. All this to say I, personally, think the purpose laws *should* have is to delineate behaviors that are harmful to the perpetrator or society, so that there are well-defined rules for when someone needs to be sequestered (*humanely*) and rehabilitated. In a punishment-based criminal justice system...well, it's as Saint August of Hippo said: "An unjust law is no law at all."

Anonymous

Is it ever mentioned why no one sees a pair of filth covered feet running around? I haven't read it in years, though in the first (best) Claude Rains movies and other iterations footprints appearing in snow is an oft used image. But wouldn't tramping through a damp (soggy) English countryside in Spring result in very visible, very dirty soles and toes (at the very least). Even moreso if just eaten food is visible?

Anonymous

Happy to hear a mention of Memoirs of an Invisible Man. The film was a huge disappointment to me after reading the wonderful book. I would recommend it without reservation. A couple of random thoughts: 1) Some really good experiments out there where just an image of someone watching you - even just a pair of disembodied eyes - is enough to reduce unethical behavior. If folks can't see you, well, most people are going to commit unethical acts. 2) More great experiments out there about how anonymity enables greater brutality. Put on a mask (or just an anonymizing uniform) and you loosen the bonds on the devils of your worser nature. 3) The true challenge of living your life invisibly would be navigating busy city streets or crossing busy rooms. We all make room for each other instinctively. Not so our invisible companions. 4) On the nature of crime, I'm always interested in the general low level of crime in Japan despite many opportunities to get awy with (for example) shoplifting from displays out on the street unattended. The main reason this sort of thing doesn't happen? Because it would be rude.

Anonymous

Hey so do you think the Invisible Man got a boner during the naked brawl, or is that just me?

Anonymous
>>26000121

You mean 'cause he's rubbing up against all that tweed and wool?

Anonymous
>>25997235

In the film, Griffin actually lists that as one of the reasons he needs a confederate--he needs someone who can whipe his feet clean now and then since Griffin obviously can't carry a handkerchief.

Anonymous
>>25990202

By the way, Chad, slight semantic quibbling. You asked if people's natural state is anarchy or if they're inclined to organize on their own--those are the same thing. In spite of its colloquial use (and media misrepresentation) Anarchy doesn't mean "without rules." It means "without rulERS." An anarchist system is one in which the power of government is distributed equally among all citizens rather than concentrated in a political class--anarchists don't believe a representational democracy can really be considered democratic. Generally, anarchists favor a direct democracy as a way of structuring society. (And of course all industries should have lateral power structures as well. Workers' co-ops for EVERYONE!)

Anonymous
>>25998780

When I worked retail, I was told the reason for the greeter at the front door was #1. You remind people that they are being watched, so supposedly it reduces shoplifting. It is also one reason for aggressive salespeople. It is not just about making a sale, but also reducing theft.

Ben Gilbert

You should use one of Una O’Connor’s screams to start the podcast while you’re covering The Invisible man. :)

Jeff C. Carter

Thanks for returning the gear, glad we could help. We're recording an episode of Put Up Your Spooks tonight! Podcast link here for those curious: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-six-demon-bag-podcast/id1252943326

Anonymous

The thing about being invisible is that it would make participating in society really difficult. You could wrap yourself in bandages or makeup or something if you had to, but you’ll still creep people out and creeping people out makes every social interaction a lot harder. I think that should be considered when discussing if it’s possible to be an ethical invisible person. Can you work? If so, what kinds of jobs can you do? How do they pay? Is it possible to acquire new skills quickly enough to do a job where you don’t need to be seen at all? Is it possible to buy food and other essentials? Is it possible to drive, walk through a city, take public transportation? Would your friends still want to hang out with you? Your family? What would you have to do for human companionship? Would the options available to you be enough? Even if you're perfectly ethical in most other ways, you may still have to break laws in order to survive. Anyway, I think the answer to what humans do in the wild is that we organize ourselves into a society and come up with a bunch of laws, customs, ideas about ethics etc. And my evidence for this is that this is exactly what we’ve done. We are humans in the wild. We always have been. We’ve created every aspect of our societies from scratch. No one else did it for us and then put us in some artificial environment. I think this question originated from times when it was taken more for granted that we received our hierarchies from some higher power. That doesn’t mean that it’s useless to ask what the essential nature of humanity is, but I also think it’s a bit like asking about the essential nature of parrots or wildebeest. Mostly we’re interested in survival and procreation. Sometimes we do nice things to each other, sometimes we do horrible things to each other. The distribution of those options varies by individual, but since we’re highly social animals who rely on our cooperation for survival, I think that generally speaking most of us tend to do more nice things than horrible things. In fact, in order for most (maybe all) humans to do horrible things to others, we almost always have to see those others as less than human or see ourselves as victims engaging only in defense of ourselves - or both. Anyway, that’s my long form essay on the nature of society, ethics and humanity. Thank you for your patience. I should also throw in there that I like the story better than the movies so far.

Anonymous

The next episode is just a bunch of flashbacks? That August Derleth gets everywhere! That is a comparatively long, and wonderful, post @Allison Albright. They say morality is what we do when we think no-one's watching, or some such. I like to think I'm pretty ethical but I'm sure I'd be REAL bad if I was invisible. Imagine how it would start. You'd begin by listening to others talking about you, then living in other peoples houses- the rich and privileged, sneaking food from fancy restaurants and living the good life. Then you'd take money. You'd move on to anonymously helping the "deserving" and then to meeting out "justice" and in no time you'd be a tyrannical loon orchestrating an army of unfortunate puppets! Or maybe you'd just die in a military lab after being apprehended on a foggy day?

Anonymous

It's weird because I grew up in the 90s, but the 1930s and 40s horror films were a real cornerstone of my childhood entertainment. I think that was a primer for me getting into Lovecraft near the end of my teens. Whenever I read his stories I always imagine them looking like those old black and white movies.

Anonymous

When I have occasion to teach Hobbes and Locke in my college classes I always try to get my students to think about humans without society. It’s harder to imagine humans BEFORE society, so I ask them to think about their favorite post-apocalyptic TV series. Are humans, left to their own devices, going to be dicks? (Because it’s college and not high school, I can even phrase it that way.) In Apocalyptic Zombie World, is the Real Monster Man????? I always bring in the Penn Gillette quote, too. I agree with others above (and with Hobbes and Locke) that what humans “in the wild” do is create societies and laws, and certainly historically they always rebuild after quasi-apocalyptic events (the “Fall of Rome,” the Black Death). The question of human nature is important if you want to ask WHY they do this, and to define or defend a specific kind of society. Thus both Hobbes and Locke envision a natural state of freedom for humans; for Hobbes, who had lived through the English Civil War, this freedom leads to horror and violence, so natural self-preservation and human reason lead people to decide to set up rules enforced, ideally, by an unquestioned absolute monarch. For Locke, people are less dickish and really need civil society only to defend natural freedoms and to make sure that no one is a judge in their own case when disputes arise, and so he’s for a system of constitutional monarchs who can be deposed when they turn tyrant, although obviously his arguments have worked for supporting the idea of democracy. I have had students read _Frankenstein_ along with Hobbes and Locke and so forth, since ideas of nature and nurture and human goodness are front and center there, although next time I’d definitely consider adding _The Invisible Man_. For what it’s worth, Camus’ _The Plague_ works well, too, for the idea of whether people need religious belief, accountability, or even a reasonable chance of success in order to want to do the right thing. Camus’ atheist narrator decides that the behavior of his fellow townsfolk during the plague shows that, on the whole, there’s “more to admire than to despise” about humanity.

Anonymous

Oh, and separately: I hope everyone who trekked here to Providence enjoyed NecronomiCon! If you came to the ball, I was the guy in a giant snake headdress whose partner was dressed as Shub-Niggurath; if you came to the podcast anniversary party, I was much less conspicuous and wasn't able to stay long. (Or perhaps you glimpsed us later that night at the sea chanties or nearby karaoke afterwards; my girlfriend had an Innsmouth prosthetic on. I hasten to add that she also has a lovely face that she normally does not scruple to display to the world.)

Anonymous
>>26050767

I would say that you and I have different ideas about what's moral and immoral. For example, I wouldn't want to live in a house with just some strange rich people, so I might live in one of their unoccupied investment houses. But I don't think that's an immoral act. Just making use of a house that would otherwise stand empty doesn't hurt anyone. In fact, I think that owning several empty investment properties when there people with no homes at all is closer to an immoral act. :)

Anonymous
>>26164462

I think I saw you in passing as I was coming in and you were going out. Wish I could have seen your friend, I sort of got the impression of a deep one, but, if it _was_ you, you, my friend were zipping). I think every convention is better than the last.

Anonymous

Are people interested in hearing about the experiences of the Attendees of Necronomicon? If so, where do you think we should post them? Maybe a posted link?

Anonymous
>>26209748

Translation: OMG Becky! I had the best time at Necronomicon!

Anonymous

When I started college my English prof said that Invisible Man was possibly the best novel ever written. I remember thinking that I liked the book when I read it years ago but didn't think it was anything great. At the time I hadn't heard of the Ralph Ellison novel, and I thought he was talking about the HG Wells story.

Anonymous
>>26284310

The twist is, your English prof was in fact just a huge fan of this novel.