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Episode 459 - On the Slab (Patreon)

Published:
2019-07-12 15:53:18
Imported:
2021-07

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Content

For the rest of this month, we're hitting up some Harlan Ellison - starting with On the Slab!

Special thanks to our reader Sellers Burgener!

Here's the full text of Frank Sinatra Has a Cold from Esquire!

Next up: From A to Z, in the Chocolate Alphabet

Comments

Anonymous

I recently came across an essay by Christopher Priest (author of "The Prestige") that changed my opinion of Harlan Ellison quite a bit. In it, Priest gives a detailed account of all the chaos and confusion surrounding the legendary third and final of Ellison's "Dangerous Visions" anthologies, that was originally supposed to be published in the early 70s, but has never seen the light of day after being expanded, postponed, and revised countless times over the years. The way Ellison treated the contributors to this would-be anthology, lied to them and abused them, is absolutely appalling and can in no way be justified by his well-known disgruntled character. I recommend giving the essay a read if you are interested in the matter. It's rather lengthy but highly interesting with a lot of original correspondence between Ellison and various authors contributing stories. It was even nominated for the Hugo award in 1995. The text can be found here: https://web.archive.org/web/20000902203835/http://sf.www.lysator.liu.se/sf_archive/sf-texts/Ansible/Last_Deadloss_Visions,Chris_Priest

Anonymous

Oh, but when it's Sonic with doubled up pupils, no one bats an eye. https://i.redd.it/uqjtfr55gks21.jpg

Anonymous

Here’s my take: given that the creature is Prometheus, I wondered if “the season of the killing bolts” referenced in the first line of the story might itself reference Zeus, who had a penchant for throwing lightning, and either his punishment against humanity for (attempting to) free Prometheus, or perhaps the return of mythological things generally. The final line definitely portends some sort of cataclysm in any case (though the farmer dying a year later due to debts would seem to contradict this, at least in the short term). My read on the ending is that Prometheus is passing judgment on humanity. Maybe he gave humanity fire and wisdom hoping we’d become titans, and now that he’s returned he feels we squandered those gifts, somehow. It is definitely ambiguous.

Anonymous

I first read Ellison when I was in junior high school (I found some of my mom's old paperbacks) and then revisited and read a lot of him when I was in my early 20s. I always sort of respected his idealism and how angry he was - at everything, but especially at the many injustices in the world. It seemed like he never became numbed to them. However, there were many times that, even from his telling of something, I walked away with a feeling of "come on man, really? It's not that big a deal. You should let it go." There are tons of things about him that I can relate to and that I found, especially as a 20-year-old, admirable. But there are nearly as many things about him that I see as mean, bullying and problematic. One of my favorite stories about Ellison was how he had everyone he knew send bricks COD to some hollywood executive or publisher he decided had wronged him. It ended up being hundreds of bricks, followed by a dead rodent of some kind sent by very slow mail. That's the kind of revenge story I can get behind. The kind of revenge stories I can less get behind include Ellison filing tons of lawsuits against people, sometimes over somewhat frivolous things. There's a rumor he assaulted another author over... maybe a bad review? There was also an essay he wrote that included some photos that would now be classified as revenge porn. I can see how being married to him might have been difficult. Another thing I kind of enjoyed about him: As a younger writer in the 1950s he joined a Sharks and Jets - type gang and wrote about it for a magazine I think. There was less aggressive snapping and more stabbing than we typically think of when we imagine gangs in the 1950s. Anyway, I think Ellison was always both enraged at and profoundly disappointed with humanity and our collective pettiness and failure to live up to what he may have seen as our amazing potential. We could be like Prometheus, who dared greatly, achieved greatly and sacrificed nobly for others. But instead we're too busy squabbling over scraps, fighting about how we're different from one another, and mailing each other decomposing rodents. I think disgruntled-writer-uly is the best theme-month name yet. And I think it's probably safe for you guys to be critical of Ellison now that he's dead. Oh, also, for all my mixed feelings about Ellison now that I'm older and wiser (?), he's still one of my favorite authors and I'm really looking forward to the rest of the episodes this month! I'm no expert on the guy, but I think that Ellison always intended to punch up, but sometimes, especially as he became older and more powerful and respected, he lost track of where up from him was exactly.

Anonymous

Yes! Another truly great story for the show! At first I thought the most straightforward interpretation was the most valid- that humanity would have become god-like, titanic beings if the Gods had not caught and punished Prometheus (to prevent its further development of us) but as the show went in to the other possible interpretations I began to lean towards the creepy interpretation, that what Prometheus meant by "I am what you would have become" was simply one thing- "Cursed". Whatever your interpretation, I think it *is* weird fiction, and weird science-fiction at that. Great show guys, I especially enjoyed the parallels between the Christian mythos and it's Greek precursors.

Anonymous
>>24670611

My only Ellison Joke: That Harlan Ellison is really quite stylish for a writer. He's always in a new suit.

Anonymous

Who did this? Buncha jerks

Jason Thompson

This was awesome! Looking forward to more Ellison! Oh, totally random: you should also read "Fog in My Throat" by R.A. Lafferty. One of the most depressing horror stories ever!!

Anonymous

The fact that lightning was drawn to that exact spot makes me think it was indeed Zeus who was responsible for all the lightning, well done Mr. Thomas, the constant references to the strength and power of the lightning, the land being constantly bombarded, the trees withstanding "one attack after another" "until one night as though weary of the cosmic game" makes it sound like a long battle has been taking place. It sounds like the earth itself is protecting Prometheus. Calling it a grave place is also interesting since we know he is an immortal, being dead would be the only respite from his torture. I think the title may be a hint at the identity of our creature as well, in most depictions Prometheus is on top of the rock he is chained to. The bird story told before his first attack sounds like it could be related to how Prometheus saw humans, dying alone scared in the dark. The ending however sounds like he is rejecting humanity, saying we could have been as great as the Titans if we were worth his sacrifice. Him being missing when Frank wakes up and the foreboding silence being deeper across the face of the world and not as deep as it soon will be sounds to me like our creater judged us and was left wanting.

Anonymous
>>24672774

What collection is that in? I currently give that honor (?) to Thomas Ligotti's "Alice's Last Adventure" from Songs of a Dead Dreamer and Grimscribe. The last words of that story are right up there with the Neverending Story's Rockbiter's "they look like good strong hands, don't they" and Martin Tenbones' "I love you princess, and I am sorry... I said I would not leave your side, not while I lived... not ever" as sadness reified.

Lee Russell

I love this one. The Lovecraftian elements are there: mankind created by other beings, small and helpless in the face of higher powers in the universe, and possibly doomed. Even mankind's creator is nothing compared to whatever the Olympian gods actually are. I side with the end of the world interpretation. Prometheus seems to have wanted greater things for his creations, and possibly giving us fire eventually will lead us to using it to destroy ourselves in nuclear oblivion. Or, perhaps, he's saying we'll just never live up to the potential to use the gift to one day become as powerful as Titans ourselves. Our flaws as humans will hold us down and condemn us to a slow, lonely death, confined forever to Earth.

Anonymous

Looking forward to these selections even more than I usually do HPLLP episodes. Ellison was the first Author I really latched onto and whose works I sought out. Not the first one I read, but the first one I remembered reading way back in my pre-teen years. There's a lot of weird stories in his repertoire

Anonymous

Sometimes... the universe just lines things up for you... A few weeks ago, I finally saw the 2008 Harlan Ellison documentary "Dreams with Sharp Teeth". Then, I remembered seeing Patton Oswalt's tribute to him in a 2018 issue of Heavy Metal Magazine, "ABC's of Harlan Ellison" (I believe it was issue #291, for you fellow Heavy Metal mag fans). And I thought to myself... "Man, they should really have Patton on for some Harlan Ellison stories". And then you guys release this first of a series of Ellison stories at Patton's suggestion. I mean... that's just a special kind of cosmic coincidence right there. I knew I followed you guys around for a reason. And though having Patton on for an Ellison story would be the glorious climax to this coincidence, I'll take the small victory as confirmation bias that you are reading my freaking mind.

Anonymous

Also, guys, I didn't see the "Harlan Ellison's Watching" link in the show notes, but I found a playlist of them on YouTube. Definitely worth checking out.... https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLn5mSh00tKGGwiZ0CsZvWAzA0M2xQn8jA

Anonymous

I don't know how much time Ellison spent *editing*. Since he famously used to knock out stories in bookstore windows (http://mentalfloss.com/article/65425/author-who-wrote-bookstore-windows) typing his work on one of those old fashioned "typewriters" you see in the movies, I find myself wondering if _meaning_ was as important as imagery and evocative language to him? I think he benefited from a superb sense of poetry, an EC Comics sense of horrific humor, a cynicism that was only exceeded by his Quixotic need to fight the windmills, and an iron core of capitalism. I think this story has a kind of ambiguity of meaning that invites multiple interpretations, but I don't see that as a weakness. Sometimes I go into spaces where people have hung paintings or photographs that suggest unclear ideas, or invite questions. I can stare at them for long stretches and wonder and discuss. Before TV, I can easily see how such paintings were more than dressing for a wall but actually could be a form of entertainment. Ellison's story - in this case, and in many others - seems open to quite a lot of interpretation. Is Prometheus disappointed with us? It seems like he's implying we'll soon be gone - but is that because we're going to destroy ourselves? (A common enough Ellison complaint) Or will it be because of other cosmic forces? It doesn't seem a hopeful story, that's for sure. But then some of his stories are dark that way. Even the most beautiful night is still a darkness.

Anonymous

Oh Harlan Ellison, Mr big ole' prickly pear. You know that guy from the Family Guy who always says "Big whoop, wanna fight about it?" that was Harlan to a T. Pugnacious, yes, abusive, sometimes, but terribly witty. I got to hear him speak at several Worldcons and he had an funny, quick witted, clever, insightful mind. My favorite quote of his that I heard during one of these was "You will never be asked to defend the First Amendment Rights of Reader's Digest!" I also know his last wife was a Saint. I always thought the darkness to come mentioned at the end was Prometheus' taking fire back in all its forms. As in, maybe he just got tired of all the eagles. Now I wonder if it was about mushroom clouds.

Anonymous

A simple, “I Have No Mouth, and I Must July” works for me.

Anonymous
>>24687998

Anywho--here's a link--although I heard it slightly differently http://hermiene.net/essays-trans/asimov_meets_ellison.html

Anonymous

Interesting story. I think you might be looking for understanding in an ending left very purposefully incomprehensible. That is to say that explaining the relationship of humanity to the titans (much less the gods) is akin to explaining compound interest to your faithful hound; all the words heard and nary a one understood.

Anonymous

The original title for this story was They Would Have Been Giants.

Anonymous

Loved the episode and this months foray into the disgruntled world of Ellison. For me the meaning of the ending was that we as human beings finally come face to face with our creator - the being who sacrificed himself for eternity on our account - only to discover that humanity has been a disappointment to him. When we discover the creature the first thing we do is display his noble sacrifice as a P. T. Barnum-style exhibit, and when he finally returns to his cycle of punishment he lets us know that he ultimately regrets his decision to enlighten us and abandons is to our fate - really horrific stuff and great writing by Ellison!

Mike Nusbaum

Chad, the Frank Sinatra Has a Cold article is freely available. Also is an interview with Harlan about that day where he talks also about Gay Talese and the article. It’s difficult to say how much is hyperbole but he claims Gay was there as a witness. Just search Harlan Ellison Has a Cold on Youtube. There are also so many interesting interviews. I remember the SciFi segments he did. As a young man I thought he was a total dick because he came across as so arrogant. He still does but at this point in my life I find myself agreeing with most of what he says. He’s still an asshole but I bet he’d be a fun asshole to hang out with. I just don’t like people with this level of perceived worth. He’s a brilliant voice, just way to cocky for me to call him totally cool.

Anonymous

On a much lighter note... the upcoming Gibbous game signals peak Lovecraft? Disney-style animation, talking grumpy animal companion (traditional Disney and traditional Lovecraft, thanks Brown Jenkins!), and chanted fhtagns. Plus, a non-Lehman, Lovecraftian variant on Drunken Sailor! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JAMl8W2HeDE

Ben Gilbert

The Coode Street Podcast with Gary K Wolfe and Jonathan Strahan interviewed Ellison a few years ago. https://jonathanstrahan.podbean.com/e/episode-218-harlan-ellison-bill-schafer-and-the-volcano/

Anonymous

I found Harlan Ellison was too angry for my tastes. The exception was at aDragon*Con in Atlanta. The Atlanta Radio Theater Company did a live dramatization of Shadow Over Innsmouth. Harlan, can I call him Harlan, played the role of Zadok Allen. His rendition of a crotchety old drunk was fantastic.

Scott

Such a great story. I think that Prometheus is Ellison’s mouthpiece for his disappointment with humanity by and large, and thus the final words are a reflection of humanity’s failure to develop into what we might have become. As a certain minor English author wrote, “The fault is not in our stars, dear Brutus, but in ourselves”

Ben Gilbert
>>24703765

Ellison is a great audiobook narrator. Especially of his own work.

Anonymous

I think everyone so far has been right on about Prometheus being disappointed with His creation. Oh, in the off chance you cover "I Have No Mouth" this month, friendly reminder that Harlan Ellison voiced the supercomputer AM in the video game adaptation and I will never NOT take advantage of an excuse to link to his opening monologue: https://youtu.be/iw-88h-LcTk

Anonymous

I enjoyed Ellison's stories while growing up quite a bit. Didn't agree with all the positions he put forward, and think some of the stories are even a bit over-hyped. But most of his classics are great, and are considered classics for good reason. But, wow, what a, uh, difficult personality to take in. I'm not the only one who read the writer's own forewords from his earlier anthologies and came away with the impression that he was a bit of a jerk. And that's just from his own account of himself! I happened to be browsing through some sci-fi forum at one point, and somehow the discussion of one of Ellison's antics at a convention had come up, with people questioning it. Then...Harlan himself appeared on the forum, seemingly having signed on for the first time for the occasion of people discussing him. Much of what he contributed to the discussion involved cursing everyone out though. The regulars responded relatively calmly and just sort of lamented the angry old man the great writer had seemingly become. Given his famous history of scrapping, I suppose any interaction with the Internet was bound to go that way all along at any age though. Anyway, I was not impressed. In fairness, I got the impression of someone who was decent, but had gone through much of his life lacking self awareness in certain areas, with maybe a bit of a chip on the shoulder as well. In many ways, I think his heart was in the right place much of the time. But sometimes, he would recount sort of ugly stories that he didn't seem to realize cast him in a bad light. And it didn't help that, as forward thinking as his ideas were in some areas, he could be sort of old fashioned in ways modern readers would find problematic in others. Anyway, he was a truly great author with an amazing voice. He mentioned he was influenced by the more clever scripts for old time radio shows, like those for the show Quiet Please, which I can see in his apparent interest in inventive approaches to storytelling.

Anonymous

Oh, speaking of Harlan Ellison's personality, I think one of the best ways to get a feel for him is to listen to the man himself recount the story of how he mailed a dead gopher to a publishing house that had wronged him: https://youtu.be/QXxFHo83Nic

Anonymous

This is a great story but when we're talking a giant humanoid with pink skin and double pupils I can't help but picture a Futurama alien design. I do think it's about the failure of humanity. Prometheus endures pain because of his act of creation and that sacrifice is futile because humanity is doomed by our own decisions. Futility is clearly signaled right from the start in the failing orchard and the foreshadowing of a greater silence at the end implies human extinction. And yes I know I was flippant about creature design just now but I think Prometheus' form is significant (this is the point where my students sigh and think longingly of what to have for lunch). He has one eye, but two pupils. We have two eyes and two pupils. We're the distorted ones, pulled apart without that singleness of vision, that wisdom (and wasn't there a bit in classical mythology where humans were unitary hermaphrodite beings before the gods split us apart to sow dissension?). Oh, that's the lunch bell...

Anonymous
>>24735559

Ahh, yes! That isn't actually a piece of mythology; some ancient satire writer among the Greeks contrived it as an allegory for spouses or "soul mates" or the like. (And some of the rotund beasts had actually been dual-men or dual-women, to account for homosexuality.) I have an especial love for the idea because it, coupled with less-than-implicit pedophilic overtones, were used as a basis for one of my favorite SCPs: www.scp-wiki.net/scp-1788

Anonymous

Quite a bit to unload here. @Thompson, I believe you alluded to Zeus as well which is usually my first go-to-guy when I hear lightening bolts discussed in any piece of literature. I do want to throw in a bit more along those lines. The story does seem to be an amalgamation of Christian and Greek mythology (I use mythology only in a literary sense here so my apologies in advanced since the author's intent doesn't appear to be proselytizing, but rather borrowing quite liberally the extended metaphors and symbols from both). Living nearby to an apple orchard, I must say up front that what appears to be a failing orchard in the story due to the bolts and apparent sadness in seeing the orchard slowly die made me believe that undoubtedly the orchard at some point was thriving. It is interesting to note that the use of the "Apple" orchard motif does paint an earlier picture of the Tree of Knowledge and of course the Fall. The gift of fire and the "forbidden fruit" both liken Humanity's venture into becoming "god-like" having gained "forbidden knowledge." In each case, the offence is immediately punishable by "death." In the case of Prometheus, the endless cycle of birth, death, and re-birth, mirrors that of the cycle of birth, death, and resurrection, of an immortal God and of Humanity. The bolts destroying the "Garden of Eden/ Apple Orchard" is quite similar to the story of Adam and Eve as they are at once cast from the Garden and forced to toil. The ground itself becomes cursed, unyielding Good fruit as the trees become sickened and gnarled in the scene. Two other things jumped at me that seemed strange at first. The story didn't stir up much news. Interesting choice here since the scenes, the commentary, the way the characters themselves move about and discuss the humanoid, and the likening of the anomaly being shown off to the public did seem very much like pilgrimage to religious place. The second was that why there? That particular place? I wondered if Zeus perhaps uses his lightening not to uncover Prometheus, but to materialize him in a different place on Earth sort of as a twisted miracle or perhaps warning. Any way, I could go on a bit more. I should add, that the liver in the Old Testament is not to be used for sacrifice, yet it is used as tool for divination. For the ancient Greeks, I believe -and someone should double-check me on this, I think the liver was the place of knowledge/soul? It seems like I remember vaguely that it carried some great importance. Definitely another story best discussed over beers and a few friends.

Anonymous

Messrs Fifer and Lackey: Please read and review H. Warner Munn's short novel, "The City of the Spiders" (Weird Tales, November 1926) which I believe is free to read online.

Anonymous

Guys, though I very much prefer "July is Plagiarized!!" month, I think the much simpler "Suly" (pronounced Sue-Lie) would work just fine, for obvious reasons. Hell, I heard the guy even sued James Cameron for his opening of Terminator, which supposedly copied Ellison's Outer Limits episode "Soldier."

Anonymous

I know I’m late to this party but, regardless of whet H.E. intended, I don’t see Prometheus’ response as either good or bad. If Zeus (or Cronus) had found us worthy, they would have lifted us up and we would be like him, but they did not. Prometheus found us to be worthy and so lifted us up in his own way. Not being worthy to be like him is not an absolute judgment of worth.

Anonymous

Mr. Ellison's Rant https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mj5IV23g-fE

Anonymous

I believe the use of the fire extinguisher is significant because Mr. Elison appeared to me in a dream and scolded, “Doncha think it’s important it was a FIRE extinguisher? Huh!??? Huuuuuh???” Before I could compose a response he whipped a bottle at my head and woke up.

Anonymous

I've read a fistful of Ellison stories, and I recall liking them, but I generally stayed away from sci-fi, especially high-minded stuff, because my tiny pea-brain couldn't comprehend such heady concepts.

Anonymous

Love you guys. Didn't have the time to listen for a while but it's so good to dive back in. <3

Steve

When Lovecraft uses cyclopean, it means masonry made with massive irregular shaped stones fitted together without mortar. But it also means like a cyclops.

Steve

I guess there's also the question as to why Prometheus has been unearthed and I'm guessing that's so his punishment can resume, humanity having proved itself particularly unworthy, in Ellison's rather misanthropic worldview. He did once say that the two most common elements in the universe are hydrogen and stupidity.

Mark Brett
>>24688322

YES! This is what I will call it in my mind, even if it's never uttered on the show.

Anonymous

22:48 @Chad You have the voice of an angel, no need for further workshopping, as Patton said (re: Deathbed) "stop digging, you've hit oil!" With what the Destroyer turns out to be, do we finally have an act to rival Hatebeak?

Anonymous

Makes me think of Courage the Coawrdly Dog - "return the slab, return the slab!" Now that was a weird cartoon.

Anonymous

"Season of killing bolts... it just struck me. " nice pun Chad

Anonymous

I'm so late joining in (been catching up slowly on the podcast) but just wanted to say I caught a pretty direct reference to Jesus and the crucifixion when he mentions the damage to Prometheus's flesh and compares it to a monstrous centurion's spear. Relating the sacrifices of creators for their creation, God/Jesus and Prometheus are disappointed and continue to suffer while humans remain, although the coming darkness may be their end.