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Episode 437 - Men Without Bones (Patreon)

Published:
2019-01-24 21:04:25
Imported:
2021-07

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Content

Long before Men Without Hats there were Men Without Bones! Join us as we examine this classic bit of science fiction by prolific author (and Harlan Ellison favorite) Gerald Kersh!

Special thanks to reader Kyle Akers! Check him out on the improv podcast The Counselor!

The opening and closing music on this episode was provided by Jimmy Fontanez/Media Right Productions.

Comments

William Rieder

Scott Nicolay and Michael Bukowski also covered this one in their "Stories from the Borderland" column here: <a href="http://scottnicolay.com/stories-from-the-borderland-6-men-without-bones-by-gerald-kersh/" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">http://scottnicolay.com/stories-from-the-borderland-6-men-without-bones-by-gerald-kersh/</a> I don't think you're missing anything with the story, it's just the efficiency of the prose and imagery has it competing far above its weight class. That, and its pre-Chariot of the Gods, post-pulp timeframe, makes it well worth a quick reading.

Anonymous

Just off the top of my head, I would say that it kind of makes sense if we are the Martians when you put it in context of like… The Noah myth in the flood myth. So maybe the ark wasn’t a boat at all, but a spaceship. I don’t know, that’s the only way I could rationalize it.

Anonymous

I don't have much to say on this tale other than that I enjoy it, but I would like to contest one thing. Chris said there's "nothing like the Men Without Bones on Earth." Their physiology and appearance is actually a LOT like a large-scale cnidarian--a clade of a great many animals including jellyfish: <a href="https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cnidaria" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cnidaria</a>

Anonymous

Patton lives in his own solipsist World,he explained some crazy theory about Batman once ,it made zero sense but because people think he is some Nerd God people went along with it.Kinda like when you are talking to an autism infected individual and you are like “well okay I can kinda see that”

Anonymous

I guess the easiest (if maybe trite) reading is that it's the old metaphor-for-Imperialism. Western scientists entering a land which they're alien to, trying to impose their ideas on it, and being obtusely horrified when being confronted with the fact that it's not something they can control or categorise or understand. It's not a particularly elegant reading but I don't think this was a particularly subtle story. It's fun but, as you guys point out, falls apart once you give it a little thought.

Anonymous
>>19217552

I feel this is a good reading! The men without bones have devolved in the jungles of Earth, but have adapted and are now apex-predators. The humans in the story are the ones alien to the environment. With one dying directly from their poor ability to exist within the jungle setting. I would argue that may be the purpose of the closing line. The humans are now the alien element on Earth, with the actual (literal!) aliens having devolved to fit right in. Or maybe I'm also reading into this and the story is really as twilight-zoney as it seems.

Anonymous

I find there is something very cosmic horror about the idea we are alien in origin, separate forever from this environment trying to kill us, even as the the proof of our best hope future state should we evolve under environmental pressures - adapted admirably yet without a big brain to enjoy it with - looks like the love child between the fat toddler from spirited away and a pac man. I think symbolically the jungles are us confronting what it means to be both human and animal, modern man subject to natural law, and the story I believe is about how much we value our big fat boneless brains as deliniators between us and the natural world. Though if facing the horror of their future sucking them dry and literally changing from grey to pink to brown as it inspires disgust and terror isn't anagalous to racism, colonialism and imperialism I don't know what is. There is only straight pairity here no room for subtlty or veiled and oblique reference, this is science, man! We deal only with shoving our hands up to elbow in fearsome and noxious terror inducing muck and rooting around!

Anonymous
>>19216491

This goes with the idea that all life on Earth was seeded from Mars. The men without bones are just evolutionary throwbacks - coelacanths of a sort.

Anonymous

What's interesting to me is that the story is basically a fantastic take on what actually happened. I mean, we *did* have scientists who explored difficult areas and uncovered our ancestors. Ancestors that seem quite frightening and alien at first glance - brutish beast men. This leads us to a conclusion that remains very uncomfortable to many people: that we are great apes. That those gorillas and chimps (and more) are - in a sense - us. We are the Martians.

Anonymous

The author’s life sounds more interesting than this short story. Reminded me of that book title ‘Men are from Mars, Women are from Venus’. Maybe these little blobby folk are women. After all, there are no other female characters in the story.

Anonymous

Great, funny episode, fun story, cool monsters, stupid ending. Bonus for me- I just listened to this in Puerto Rico, where I’m on vacation! I’m on the lookout for them blobby men.

Anonymous

All of this and no "Men Without Hats" joke! '

Anonymous

Didn't Puddle of Corruption tour with Cradle of Filth back in '98?

Anonymous

Keep in mind that, while it seems ridiculous to us now that we know genetics tie us to other life on earth, DNA (discovered in 1944) and how molecular genetics (discovered in 1953) actually worked was still largely unknown and misunderstood in the early 1950s. It wasn't until 1953 that DNA pairings were identified, and the first genome comparisons are still 20 years away

Steve

I thought it might but that the men without bones were in their rightful place and that the narrator is the alien, in the more general sense. Martian is hyperbole for that. I'm not sure about this however, and even with the possibly less than stellar ending, it's still a story I enjoy.

Anonymous

Fun episode, guys! I read this short story years ago and forgot about it until you said you'd be covering it last week. (And for random reasons it reminds me now of Fat Men From Outer Space [<a href="https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/888410.Fat_Men_From_Space]," rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/888410.Fat_Men_From_Space],</a> which I read as a kid but is in no real way similar, or weird, just bizarre.) Sure, the ending doesn't hold up to any logical scrutiny, but I counter that it doesn't have to to make this an enjoyable short story. I remember that upon reading it I assumed that Goodbody was insane, and so he's an unreliable narrator. What is true and isn't from Goodbody's story is secondary to the tale itself, which does a good job of approaching the weird, at least in mood; it reminds me in some ways of the Space-Eaters, and I'd be curious to know if Kersh had read Long's story. In fact, I'd argue that this fits into a broader genre of strange, gelatinous creatures (Slime, anyone?) that appear in weird fiction in the first half of the 20th century. Perhaps it's worth exploring further and having a month of weird slimy creature stories--SliMay, or Gelatimber, perhaps? As for whether this tale is a metaphor or not, I could be convinced of a few arguments, but in the end it's about what the reader brings to the interpretation of the tale. I doubt Kersh had a deeper meaning in mind when he wrote it, and was just looking for a good twist at the end.

Jason Thompson

Incredibly cool gross monsters + nonsensical/clever head-trip ending makes for..... a ridiculous but cool story!!

Jason Thompson

This story should have ended with the protagonists discovering that, in fact, every single vertebrate life form on earth is secretly an amoeba-like slime being, and that humans (aka Martians) are trapped on a planet full of slimy monsters. Like the veil of merciful illusion drops and when the narrator goes home to their faithful dog it's he realizes it's a DOG WITHOUT BONES!! That's all I got folks

Anonymous
>>19227844

There are plenty of blobby men on the beaches...wearing speedos.

Anonymous

On a side note ,they announced NecronomiCon Providence ticket sales last week and starting selling them Friday. What they didn't do is announce any guests or guests of honor. Did anybody see any information, after the 2017 meltdown and the losing of some others, I feel the Con is just going to turn into a Modern Weird Fiction Festival guest and attendees wise.Some of the panels last time were horrible and some of the interesting stuff doesn't even have panels anymore. The DART shows and HPL podcast shows (Quiet &amp; Bold included)were probably the saving grace for me last time .I am not so keen to jump in this time because outside of the gaming part ,the conference has gone a bit too far away from the roots. The gamers ,which I am not one ,are the best group that attends the conference imo.

Anonymous

Enjoyed the episode and I think the story held up as an interesting, creepy tale. Weird in the sense not too much was over-explained. Left us with lots to think about. I didn't notice other comments saying anything about how the guy came to the conclusion that humans are from mars. I assumed it had something to do with the metal plate the professor spent all his time with. You know, the one conveniently left in the jungle where no one can verify this tale?

Anonymous

How can i download the audio stories themselves not the discussions?

witchhousemedia
>>19354130

<a href="http://hppodcraft.com/full-story-readings/" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">http://hppodcraft.com/full-story-readings/</a>

Anonymous

This is a trope unto itself (humans ARE the aliens) that I first encountered in Larry Niven's novel Protector. Niven's still alive, but he's good fodder for a topics show maybe. So many of his aliens are HPL-influenced. The Slavers/Thrintun are Cthuloids, the Tnuctipun are Elder Things, the Bandersnatch are friendly Shoggoths and I'm pretty sure the Pak Protectors are Ghouls. The awakening of a Protector has some pretty solid similarities to "The Outsider" as well.

Anonymous

Is it just me or do you guys keep saying “jag-wire?”

Anonymous

Hi Chris, Chad and fellow HP Podcrafters! I have just switched to Patreon, so this Comment is a little belated, but I’m secretly pleased at the opportunity to make it. The ending of ‘Men Without Bones’ – the narrator’s revelation that “We are Martians!” – has a strong resonance for your older, British listeners (such as yours truly): it is the climactic twist of Nigel Kneale’s classic drama ‘Quatermass and the Pit’. So closely is Kneale associated with the phrase that a lavish book about him published in 2017 is entitled ‘We Are The Martians: The Legacy of Nigel Kneale’ (See <a href="https://www.pspublishing.co.uk/we-are-the-martians-the-legacy-of-nigel-kneale-hardcover-edited-by-neil-snowdon-4286-p.asp)" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">https://www.pspublishing.co.uk/we-are-the-martians-the-legacy-of-nigel-kneale-hardcover-edited-by-neil-snowdon-4286-p.asp)</a> Broadcast as a BBC drama series in 1958/59, ‘Quatermass and the Pit’ was subsequently remade in 1967 by Hammer Film Productions (under the same name in the UK; retitled ‘Five Million Years to Earth’ in the United States). Hammer films were on TV a lot in the 1970s, when I was growing up, and this is probably the first movie I found truly terrifying. The central plot element is closely related to that of Men Without Bones, but is handled far better by Kneale, whose plot includes such Lovecraftian elements as alien mind control, witchcraft, occult influences, tainted places, possession, madness, military cover-ups, and human hubris. Men Without Bones appears to have been first published in 1954, so it is possible that it influenced Kneale, although I have no knowledge on this point. What is certainly true is that Kneale was already well established as the UK's leading sci-fi dramatist. Quatermass and the Pit was the third of his screenplays to feature his hero Professor Bernard Quatermass, the head of the British Experimental Rocket Group. As his Wikipedia page puts it, Quatermass “continually finds himself confronting sinister alien forces that threaten to destroy humanity” (see <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bernard_Quatermass)." rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bernard_Quatermass).</a> His first adventure, ‘The Quatermass Experiment’, was broadcast by the BBC in 1953, followed by ‘Quatermass II’ in 1955. In a typical trajectory for successful British TV series of the time, these were turned into films in –respectively – 1955 (as ‘The Quatermass Xperiment’ (UK) /‘The Creeping Unknown’ (US)) and 1957 (as ‘Quatermass 2’ (UK) / ‘Enemy From Space’ (US). These featured mutation, monstrosity and alien invasion – good stuff! For a variety of reasons – death, principally – there was a revolving door for the casting of the part of Quatermass, with actors including André Morell and Andrew Keir taking turns in the role and only (the somewhat miscast) Brian Donlevy playing Quatermass more than once (in the first two film adaptations). After a long interval, Quatermass returned in 1979 – played by John Mills – in ‘Quatermass’ (also known as ‘The Quatermass Conclusion’ or ‘Quatermass IV’). This mixed more alien mind control with anarchy and social collapse in a dystopian near-future Britain as the world's youth is harvested by unknowable extraterrestrial forces. Relentlessly downbeat throughout, it will come as no surprise that the ending precluded the possibility of a sequel (although reboots of the franchise are still mooted: see <a href="https://www.screendaily.com/news/legendary-entertainment-hammer-to-reboot-british-sci-fi-quatermass/5136349.article)." rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">https://www.screendaily.com/news/legendary-entertainment-hammer-to-reboot-british-sci-fi-quatermass/5136349.article).</a> Kneale wrote many other sci-fi plays – ‘The Stone Tape’, ‘The Road’, ‘Beasts’, ‘The Year of the Sex Olympics’ – and is probably the single-largest non-‘Dr Who’ influence on the genre on British screens. All the above are available on DVD or elsewhere – such as ‘The Road’, broadcast as a BBC radio drama in October 2018: <a href="https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m0000y1d." rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m0000y1d.</a> Enjoy!

Anonymous
>>19962821

PS: The above links do work – once you delete the punctuation marks I pedantically left at the end, ie the close parenthesis – ‘)’ – and the full stops. A bit of cut and paste should do the trick!

Anonymous

Gerald Kersh has so many great stories. You guys should dig deeper and do some more!