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Episode 415 - The Eyes (Patreon)

Published:
2018-08-12 01:24:57
Edited:
2019-01-04 03:10:25
Imported:
2021-07

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Content

Let's all have a look at The Eyes by Edith Wharton!

Special thanks to our reader: Dana Pupkin!

Up next: Don't Look Now by Daphne du Maurier

Comments

Anonymous

Oh, listening to the current episode, but I've been meaning to mention it: in case you are unaware guys, "Don't Look Now" was adapted to film starring Julie Christie and good ol' Donald Sutherland. I've yet to watch it myself, but I've heard great things about it from Jay of Red Letter Media: <a href="https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Don%27t_Look_Now" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Don%27t_Look_Now</a>

Anonymous

So, in my head, Culwin is basically Clifton Webb.

Anonymous

There's a grandfather paradox in this story if the eyes are Culwin's own eyes in the present being cast back in judgement on his younger self. He acts as he does, first fleeing from Alice to Europe and then revealing the truth to Gilbert, as a result of seeing the eyes-- but he looks back on himself in judgement as a result of having already taken these actions and grown into the cynical old man who possesses such eyes. I wonder, even, if his telling the story in conjunction with Frenham pointing the mirror at him near the end casts some kind of Time-Traveling Stare of Judgement spell, causing the eyes to appear at key moments in his own story about them. Either way, the temporal paradox Culwin is caught in, forming a loop out of his entire life, is a really great way to represent the ideas about aging, regret, and memory Wharton is dealing with here. Thanks for another great story!

Anonymous

I'm really not convinced that Culwin ever saw eyes. It seemed to me a confabulation designed to excuse his reprehensible behavior - a dodge to avoid the need to address his homosexuality. I'm not sure that he actually sent the writing of his "protege" to any publishers or critics or, frankly, anywhere outside of a neglected drawer or well-tended bin. The supernatural is a right handy thing to pretend to believe in when it you feel your own nature is, well, unnaturally shitty.

Anonymous

Of course Edith knew everybody who was anybody in her day including any rich confirmed bachelor dandies and while there are more than a few examples of coded gay men in her stories, they just always bring to mind wilde and Lord Alfred Douglas. I think you guys explain it well and truly, ie she's not condemning nor judging same sex relationships and even seeing the sense in mentor/mentee pairings, but any time these characters appear in turn of the century stories what happened to Oscar and the kind of man he was (aesthete acerbic in other words just begging to be taken down) inevitably comes sadly to mind. Caco you do have a good pick with Webb but Stephen fry or Hugh Laurie could also do justice. Also great shout out to Dan savage and his campfire rule which I wish had been around when I was a young lad. Luckily I never had a culwin but I've known more than a few. As an older gay man I think the math rule or whatever its called works fine though personally after I passed 40 I found having an extended conversation with someone a decade younger was exhausting enough. Coupling that with waking up next to them and having morning coffee together is far more horrifying than any pair judgy eyeballs could ever be. But much better story than last week

Anonymous
>>14605506

It's really a penetrating study of a character's deeper motivations. How the stuff he hides from himself influences his actions. He carefully crafts a carefree persona, but obviously falls short of some inner measure in how he treats people and despises himself for it. So, were the eyes that appeared the night of the proposal condemning him for trying to deny his sexual nature, or for how he eventually treated Alice? Are they his eyes, or the authors? Maybe he is just damned if he does and damned if he doesn't because underneath it all he is so unloving to himself. It's implied, I think, that Alice knows he is gay. She seems more startled by his proposal than his leaving. I read her reaction as surprise and unsettled relief at a chance for a marriage, any marriage. He seems to flatter himself she's in love with him, but also mentions her lack of prospects. She just doesn't act like it to me. She then sends her (doubtlessly also gay) relative to be mentored by him which cinches her awareness of his nature for me. I think it bears mentioning that his proposal to Alice wasn't so much predatory as wishful self-delusion. It's insightful to imply it's not the desire for a peaceful, self-deceitful normalcy that was wrong, but the fact that it would have led to him hating himself. He then cinches the deal by treating Alice badly.

Anonymous
>>14605414

Men seemed to be encouraged to be particularly shitty by the culture of the period. Maybe they needed generations of sociopaths to keep the class system running. He's no more shittier than Whistler towards Maud Franklin.

Anonymous
>>14599048

It's a classic that I sort of remember but significantly different from the story. I remember loving it in my college days because anything artsy and hitchcockian {because college} but I think now I prefer the short story. Oh yeah it was a controversial film when released due to graphic sex scene that's prob tame by today's standards but it was all kinds of chopped up throughout releases in 70s. I do remember uncut featuring prominently on the video from blockbuster. The big deal was showing a guy {sutherland} making a woman {Julie Christie} really happy. For a film about a dead child and psychic visions it seems a little out of place but sure got more people than usual interested in seeing a so called modern gothic horror flick

Ilker Yucel

Lords of Acid... LOL, nice reference guys! =D

Anonymous

Not quite pussies but there are some AWESOME pics of her and her chihuahuas! Y'all may think you're cool but you'll never be "Edith Wharton with shoulder Chihuahuas" cool: <a href="https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/5f/43/eb/5f43eb8734c8c6f27683b30ad3aa22f6.jpg" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/5f/43/eb/5f43eb8734c8c6f27683b30ad3aa22f6.jpg</a>

Anonymous
>>14631352

I like to imagine her, Wells, Fitzgerald, Stein a way too young Ernest, etc. and lots of pretty young men making their own version of studio 54 in those salons. God maybe Sonia could've dragged HP to one. Though of course his panic attack would've had a panic attack.

stratum

Honestly I didn't really enjoy this story. I caught on the symbolism and the central idea of the story pretty much as soon as he met the guy in Europe. I thought even short as the story was, it dragged it out way too long for my taste. Plus I am of course a fan of the weirder stories.

Anonymous

I liked this story, even though its premise, or the supernatural element seemed a little hokey. Culwin's character reminded me of a few people I've known in life, who maybe don't intend to be predatory or exploitative overtly, but who lack the ability to see past their own momentary pleasure (or who decide that other considerations are unimportant) and so end up causing great harm to those around them. While I'm sure there are a few people who wake up in the morning and decide they want to hurt people, I think that by far the greatest motivation for people who do harm is selfishness and failure (or unwillingness) to consider how their actions will affect others. My sense from the story is that the eyes appeared whenever he was engaged in a behavior that served his own needs at the expense of the wellbeing of others. It makes me wonder why Alice, who presumably knew what this guy was about, would opt to send her cousin to him. Maybe she wasn't so fond of the cousin after all. Maybe she was unintelligent, as Culwin said, but I'm not inclined to believe his account of her. I think he, in part, justifies his actions by tearing down his victims, sort of to make it as if they were worthless and deserved what they got - though no one deserves to be treated so poorly. And of course, the only thing Culwin ever suffers are some lame eyes following him around. That's the most realistic part of the whole story: it's possible to be a huge douche and live a long and happy life filled with luxury and wealth. Even likely.

Anonymous
>>14649865

Well it's not like he went full Heathcliff, plotting endless revenge against generations 'cause, well who can be bothered to remember all that. So, one pair of staring eyeballs is enough. I mean, Culwin has other guys who need a bit of mentoring, right? I think Wharton is more than a little parodying the gasping horror trope of Dorian Gray's portrait or Catherine at the window (can't help but hear you sing it Chris!) or the entire bloody house of Usher while also trying not to write an all out comedy horror which as we all know is the most difficult of genres to do well.

Anonymous

Is anyone else not seeing this one in the Apple Podcast app feed? I'm in the $5 tier if that has anything to do with it.

Anonymous
>>14656817

Sorry Clint I can't help. Switched over to Castbox on Android this month. This episode was there Sunday afternoon.

Jason Thompson

That was magnificent. The final twist reminded me of one of my favorite Twilight Zone episodes, "Spur of the Moment," which is also about someone haunted by their miserable future self. <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spur_of_the_Moment_(The_Twilight_Zone)" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spur_of_the_Moment_(The_Twilight_Zone)</a>

Anonymous

Link for next story? Or do I have to just suck it up and buy a du Maurier collection?

Anonymous
>>14662348

sorry Elisheba but with it being published in early 70's it's not in public domain, but it's well worth the purchase. It's part of a 5 story collection, Not After Midnight. All are pretty good. My favorite is A Border Line Case, but Don't Look Now is probably the weirdest of the lot so befitting this podcast.

Anonymous

Oh I guess it goes without saying Chad and Chris that you're going to have to delve into another writer with a complicated and disputed sexuality. I'll just say now that like HP whatever may be true about du Maurier, it was all put into service in creating some pretty great weird fiction.

Neil de Carteret

Oh my gosh I’m still catching up with this feed. I’m still on episode 300 (Carmilla!) and I’ll probably be retired or dead or both by the time I get to here. Despite that, keep up the good work and I’ll see you in the future!

Anonymous

Frankly, I enjoyed the flying haunted painting one more.

Anonymous

In terms of horror lit that deals with homosexuality have you heard of Karl Heinrich Ulrichs' "Manor"? A short 1884 vampire yarn about a Norwegian sailor and a young boy on an island. No subtext, it's clear they have a relationship that turns tragic when the sailor dies but rises from the grave to feed on the boy. Ulrichs was an early gay rights activist and a writer.

Anonymous

<a href="http://www.angelfire.com/fl3/uraniamanuscripts/manor1.html" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">http://www.angelfire.com/fl3/uraniamanuscripts/manor1.html</a>

Anonymous
>>14744300

thanks David, you're right Ulrich was really important in the very early history of the gay right's movement. I think it's been said he was the very first person to publically come out (in the 1800's!) I never thought to look to see if any of his works of fiction were online.

Anonymous

Daphne Du Maurier!!!! So excited. Probably my favorite short story author - great choice for Weird Women Week. I mean month - a month is better even though it is missing that nice alliteration.