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One Piece Book Club - [Amazon Lily / Impel Down / Marineford] (Patreon)

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2023-08-26 08:07:06
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I have been waiting to dunk on Marineford since this started, let's goooo

We spent a long time talking about Boa Hancock so I'm gonna add this additional context b/c I don't think I was able to convey exactly what my issue was with her during the stream:

There's tons of evidence for the "Oda doesn't know how to write women" thing, but it's the most obvious whenever he does "X character set genderbends" where all the women turning into men essential retain their personality with a weird new manface, but the men turned into women now say things like "Teehee! I don't do man things! I eat salad and polish my nails because I'm written by Eiichiro Oda who has the spirit of a 70 year old man!"

There are other sets of these with the Supernovas and Warlords where some translations are just... absolutely egregious with this, but it's hard to tell how much of this is localization flavor versus Oda's actual wording. I'm only posting this one because Zoro and Sanji's comments here are the exact same in every translation of them I can find, and Zoro's especially makes me just extremely angry.

Files

Jello's One Piece Book Club Chapters 513 - 597 (Patreon Stream)

Congratz if you are watching this thank you for supporting the Patreon!!! Its time for SUMMIT WAR! THE ONE PIECE IS REAAAAAAL Jello's Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/jelloapocalypse Aloha's Stuff: https://www.youtube.com/@Stabbyness Bo's Stuff: https://twitter.com/beauhello

Comments

Autumn moon

I don’t think I’ve heard someone say they wanted to dunk on marineford before excited to see what you have to say

Anonymous

Time for the arcs that raise my favourite one piece question, does Oda hate gnc people as much as he hates women?

Anonymous

potential for the “straw hat ranking” this time around to be the impel down cast? (luffy/buggy/mr 3/bon clay/ivankov/inazuma/jimbei/crocodile/mr 1) I noticed that in chapter 547 the cover art is a slice of life with all of them instead of the normal straw hats. Very cute.

Daniel

Ill be shocked if i agree with you on this one. I think Marineford is good. Not W7 or Alabasta good, but I like it still

BreadBunny

okay, I'm here to apologize for my Garp slander, turns out I didn't remember that he like actually does stuff and his conflict is more than just sitting there all sad like. Though to be entirely fair I did say that because of something that happens around chapter a 1000 where I remember him very notably not doing something he promised to do so if I remembered that one wrong too, I'll have ask Oda for forgiveness for making Garp out to be bad when by all accounts he's alright right now. If I did remember that one correctly well, I'll be here to talk about it that's for sure. Now onto actually listening to the Luffy solo saga review

Wincent, The Hollow Knight

I HAVE to say... Thank you Jello for officially ruining Rob Lucci for me. XD I tried reading some of the old chapters since the Water 7 end Enis Lobby arcs... But I CAN'T read or watch Rob Lucci now without hearing the "I am Rob Lucci EHEHEHEHEHE" in the back of my head. XD THANKS.

BreadBunny

So this this time my thoughts are LONG. To make it easier I've split it up into parts based on the three arcs and then a long Garp talk and then a long Sanji talk. Have fun AMAZON LILY Boa should have been better written I know hot take but like, in the better One Piece she should not have been so wildly inconsistent in characterization, she should not have fallen in love with Luffy for "love sickness" reasons. She should have been practically a different character altogether and I don't agree that she should be a man, but I do get where you're coming from with how Oda writes women. IMPEL DOWN I have the theory that Impel Down is everything right with One Piece battles that Marineford does wrong. Impel Down never slows down, it's constantly introducing new floors new guys to fight new obstacles to overcome because the point of Impel Down is for Luffy to be fucking rampaging through there as quickly as he can because otherwise he won't get to Ace in time. And it does a great job at this, especially with how the fucking slapshod Buggy, Mr 3, Bon Clay, Crocodile, Jinbei, and Ivankov. Sucks that there's zero women (because with all the love I have for Ivankov, this genderfluid character sure only fluids that gender for exactly one fight against Sadi) in this crew but hey it's a fun one regardless. I'll say this right now too, to make the hormone thing worth shit, you could make up some bullshit about how genderbending someone supercharges their body's everything, making it so they can survive fatal injuries with the price being that you've now been genderbended. And then Luffy runs around as a woman for Impel Down and most of Marineford until she gets turned back because Luffy takes another round of fatal injuries during Marineford anyway. And like I can believe Luffy to be very gender apathetic anyway, just the kind of person who genuinely does not feel a difference between being a man or a woman, he's just fine with anything really. It would be fun at least, better than the bullshit ten years of your lifespan. MARINEFORD And then Marineford, Marineford unlike Impel Down is just one arena and a bunch of guys who fight until Ace's execution happens at 4 o'clock but really they move it up because why would they not. But like Marineford needs to constantly come up with more reasons why the Whitebeard Pirates can't just get Ace and also why Luffy who is at this point one of the weakest players on the field gets to actually be important here, and it just does not work for me at all. This is like the most "the protagonist has to be here because he is the protagonist" One Piece ever gets and it's not a good thing. Like to go into it a little more, Impel down is electric with how it keeps moving and Marineford just slows down to a crawl, it's just no good and it happens directly after Impel Down so the difference is even bigger. Like so much time is spent on the big players Whitebeard and the admirals literally just standing there waiting for the chumps to finish fighting and it's like, why do they do that. Why do we need a dozen chapters of goons fighting goons, we don't get rid of that. also this is in reaction to y'all talking about how the Marines should know Haki. After Marineford when Coby wakes up and he's told he's developed obversation Haki, he's literally also told that every Marine at the vice-admiral rank and above NEEDS to know at least Armaments haki to be allowed to get that position. So like everyone here shouldn't know haki they DO know and just don't use it because haki has yet to be formally introduced. I'm also going to say this now that Haki gets introduced, there are several warlords of the sea that got really hamstringed by Haki not being allowed to exist yet. Because like I really don't see any reason why the Warlords wouldn't know about Haki and thus have trained in it. ALSO ALSO, whitebeard should have gotten backstabbed in the back actually, right like the panel where it's like "his back completely free of scars" is cool sure but like legitimately he should have died with that one wound in the back for thematic effect about how he'd have never got got if not for the Marines underhanded strategies. It's also like fucked up how they show flashbacks to Ace and Luffy becoming blood brothers and they show two cups until after Ace dies and suddenly Sabo is here and actually there were three cups the third one was just out of view before. Like I am not convinced that Sabo was a character before he shows up in the post-Ace dies flashbacks. same thing with Gol D Roger being Ace's dad that's like one hundred percent Oda changing his mind you cannot convince me otherwise. GARP TALK Garp.. Garp, is like too invested in upholding his idea of order to actually save his grandson. And like when he confronts Luffy he lets himself be beat because he can't fight Luffy but like Garp is the hero of the marines, Garp is the guy who caught Gol D Roger, he's been refusing to get promoted to admiral for YEARS. Okay actually, Garp should have just not been there, right like he should have been Notably absent from Marineford hell they should have like a moment where before Luffy even gets to Impel Down Sengoku is like "hey where's Garp, he knows he needs to show up right?" and Garp is just not there, he doesn't have a conversation with Ace he doesn't show up AT ALL. Because Garp in this moment is too torn between his status as a vice-admiral and being a grandfather and he ducks out. He's just on Saobody watching the fights go down hoping for the Whitebeard pirates to win and when it becomes clear they're not he gets up and starts moving to Marineford because he's got no other choice anymore if he wants Ace to live and then he gets there too late because Garp could not help but wait until it was too late. And then when Coby starts shouting for people to stop THAT'S when he gets there and Garp is the one to call an end to the war, with Aikainu having a moment of "you don't get to call the shots here" where Garp just actually tries to kill him for killing Ace before being stopped by Sengoku (if Sengoku still gets to exist in this version) and then the war is over because Garp has finally made his decision and he's done with the world government and their stupid fucking "wipe out everyone even just tangentially involved with Gol D Roger" paranoia. And then because he's both too important for Marine propaganda and too strong to be taken in by anything less than all three admirals working together the World Government in their evil law and order idiocy decides Garp gets to stay a vice-admiral because the idea that he's still on their side is more important to WG propaganda than Garp actually being on their side anymore, and he becomes like the foundation of a real splinter in the Marine powerstructure where he's just not following the orders of the WG anymore and like a significant amount of Marines with like Coby as their face who follow him and Garp pretends to continue working with the Marines even if he disagrees with their ideals but really he just gets in contact with his son and becomes the Revolutionary Army insider for the Marines, and that's his arc. TIMESKIP ARCS as for the timeskip I'm going to be honest here right, Sanji should just have transitioned and been a transwoman. Like ideally of course Sanji would have been written less gross to start with but also. HE GOES TO TRANSITION ISLAND AND TRAINS UNDER IVANKOV WHO HAS TRANSITION SUPERPOWERS like... Sanji should just have transitioned. it would make his character way better too. There's literally a moment with Sanji talking to Ivankov where he's like "I want to be a friend to women, not a woman" and Ivankov should have just said "you can do both you know" and then after the timeskip Sanji is now just a woman. This would also make the Sanji backstory a lot funnier IMO because now she can get a real wanted poster and it'll still take time for the backstory to figure out who this woman who looks suspiciously like Sanji and also has the same name is. Because also I'd make Sanji keep her name I don't think there's anything wrong with that one, it's fun. Say goodbye to pervert mysogynist Sanji, and hello to lesbian casanova Sanji... And like To Be clear this is also under the premise that Sanji is written better to begin with and at this point like mostly an awkward flirt and not hovering on the line of being a sex pest. Added bonus where Fem! Sanji flirts with Nami and she's just like "oh, oh wow okay you know what thank you" Did you notice btw that in the Going Merry, the girl's room also doubled as the treasury, No way does Nami not consider her girlfriends part of her treasure hoard lmao. But yeah I don't really have much to say about the others because all the complaints I have you've already voiced and the ones that are fine are fine. CUT CHARACTERS Tashigi should not exist you're right. She should just be Kuina and Kuina should just get to have an actual character arc that mirrors Zoro's instead OF DYING FROM FALLING DOWN STAIRS. I'm like legit starting to create a whole fucking essay about what Oda should have done with Kuina and how that would have made Zoro more interesting and given both of them a cool arc, rather than the Zoro makes a promise and then she dies so now he has to do it all by himself garbage that we get. I don't hate Zoro but he's not well-written and IMO it's largely as a result of Kuina dying. CLOSING OUT But yeah I'm like one hundred percent working on figuring out a rough outline for better One Piece where women are allowed to be characters and we queer it up a little (a lot) lmao. Also Haki sure gives me a whole new reason to get mad at Oda because some members of the Strawhat crew get Haki some don't and guess which ones don't and guess which ones are like easily the best fit for certain types of haki, haha, HAHA, HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA. Like Nami being so good at telling what the weather is going to be? is that not like a highly specialized subconscious use of Observation Haki that combines her knowledge of navigating with her being extremely observant. Also guess what character's superpowers are based entirely on making more limbs to fight WITH AND WOULD SYNERGIZE WITH ARMAMENTS HAKI FUCKING PERFECTLY! Anyway neither Robin nor Nami have developed haki as far as I'm told and they probably never will. Also final final thought, Nami should also have Conquerer's Haki because like sure Luffy is the captain, but Nami literally spends all of he time wrangling the crew into doing their fucking jobs on a day to day basis. And also that type of haki should just be like the result of being like a good leader/the type of person to draw people to them. Alongside having a very strong sense of will instead of it being like "oh one in a million people are born with this" which is stupid. Anyway if you bothered reading this, thanks means a lot.

jelloapocalypse
>>116145185

These are some good-ass Garp and Sanji takes. I don't mind Nami not having observation haki because I like the idea of her just being a naturally-talented weather savant, but never getting armament haki is just a huge waste, you're absolutory right.

Chandler B

Never thought i'd hear the words "I like Sabo" come from you. Personally I enjoy the flashback arc and I still really like the scene w Luffy breaking down and Jinbe telling him to think of who he still has and not give into despair, but I do hear your complaints and agree a lot of Marineford/Post-war stuff could have been done better. Truly Oda does not know pacing, and it only gets weirder from here on out :'D

Autumn moon

Idk as a survivor of similar stuff to boa I end up really relating to her and ended up seeing a lot of myself in her and I think oda genuinely cares about this subject because he gave her the aesthetic of Medusa Medusa being a symbol a lot of survivors of SA use and knowing how much oda is a history nerd I don’t think something like that was an accident shes ended up as one of my favorite characters because it’s nice seeing survivors of sa as more then just weaklings while still keeping the pain and trauma it’s a mask she puts on so she and her sisters are never messed with again and I really relate to that idk ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Anonymous

The invention of Haki reminds me of Araki talking about the invention of Stands. Araki was getting to Jojo's part 3 and was hitting a creative slump because the fights were just becoming "who can hit harder with hamon," so he came up with stands to evolve the battle system to make them more tactical. For One Piece, it's like we started with stands, then transitioned to using hamon and the fights just became about who's Haki is better (I think Kaido even says that directly)

Anonymous

I’m coming to this real late, but I wanted to point out, I’m pretty sure people are using Haki at Marineford, it’s just not visible. There are examples of invisible Haki before Marineford (Garp punches Luffy with Haki when they reunite at Water 7, the giants on Little Garden destroy the giant fish using Haki), it’s just not made visible to the reader until Luffy learns what Haki is. There are some oddities still, like the “lava hotter than fire” thing, but I think that’s how it’s meant to be interpreted in retrospect.