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The Scrum

CM Punk garnered an incredible amount of heat for his comments at the AEW All Out post-show scrum, which ended up leading to a fight. Even before that fight, talent from AEW had been in contact with Fightful expressing their displeasure.

Punk ran down his history and falling out with Colt Cabana, and he proceeded to target Hangman Page and EVPs (Kenny Omega and Young Bucks). Punk said Hangman Page went into business for himself and almost compromised a huge AEW gate, and he then said the EVPs leaked info, specifically regarding he and Cabana. Before the scrum ended, there were AEW talent in disbelief of the conduct. Punk was upset over reports earlier this year that AEW talent believed he was the reason Colt Cabana originally wasn't going to have his contract renewed. However, now Cabana is full-time on an ROH brand that barely exists, is not on the road with AEW and is effectively being paid to stay home.

CM Punk told Nick Hausman of Wrestling Inc. that it has been nearly a decade since he has had a relationship with Scott Colton and he thinks it's a shame that he has to address this publicly.

“If you fancy yourself a journalist, even if it’s for the silly world of professional wrestling, and you have journalistic integrity, people who report things, mostly that are bullshit and slanderous lies against myself, if you are friends with somebody, you blew my spot, if you’re not friends with him, I apologize,” he said. “You should probably disclose who you’re friends with. I haven’t had anything to do with Scott Colton in almost a decade. Probably wanted nothing to do with him even longer than that. It’s fucking unfortunate that I have to come up here and on this when I’m on my time and this is a fucking business.”

“Why I’m a grown-ass adult man and I decide to be friends with somebody is nobody else’s fucking business, but my friends, if I fall backwards, will catch me. Scott Colton, I felt, never would have,” CM Punk continued. “My problem was, I wanted to bring a guy with me to the top that didn’t want to see me at the top. You call it jealousy, you call it envy, whatever the fuck it is. My relationship with Scott Colton ended long before I paid all of his bills. I have every receipt. I have every invoice, I have every email. I have an email where he says, ‘I agree to go out separate ways, I will get my own lawyer, you do not have to pay anymore.’ That’s an email that I have. The only reason the public did not see is because, when I finally had to counter-sue him, through discovery, we discovered he shared a bank account with his mother. That’s a fact. As soon as we discovered that fact and we subpoenaed ol' Marcia, he sent the email, ‘Oh, can we please drop all this?’ It’s 2022, I haven’t been friends with this guy since at least 2014, late 2013.”

It's worth noting that Fightful was on the scene in June 2018 for lawsuit court proceedings, and when Punk spoke with us, he referred to Colt Cabana repeatedly as his friend (link: youtu.be/PS2NeSKqQqI)

CM Punk also addressed the Executive Vice Presidents of the company, The Young Bucks (Matt & Nick Jackson) and Kenny Omega, before turning his attention to Hangman Page, and the promo that he cut prior to AEW Double or Nothing 2022. He claimed that Hangman went into business for himself and jeopardized the first million-dollar live gate for the company.

Fightful Select reported that Punk believed Hangman went into business for himself leading into their Double or Nothing match, and that Punk may have seen the August 17 promo as a "receipt" for those perceptions of Hangman taking shots at him in May.

“The fact that I have to sit up here because we have irresponsible people who call themselves EVPs and couldn’t fucking manage Target, and they spread lies and bullshit and put into a medium that I got somebody fired when I have fuck all to do with him. Want nothing to do with him. Do not care where he works, where he doesn’t work, where he eats, where he sleeps. The fact that I have to get up here and do this in 2022 is fucking embarrassing. If y’all are at fault, fuck you. if you’re not, I apologize. What did I ever do in this world to deserve an empty-headed fucking dumb fuck like Hangman Adam Page to go out on national television and fucking go into business for himself, for what? What did I do? I didn’t do a god damn thing,” said CM Punk.

When Tony Khan tried to intervene and say that he did his best to make the backstage situation clear, CM Punk said that it is not his business to have to make it clear, repeating that the EVPs should have known better because this situation is none of their business.

“It’s not his [Tony Khan’s] position to make it clear,” CM Punk said. “There are people who call themselves EVPs that should’ve fucking known better. This shit is none of their business. I understand sticking up for you fucking friends, I get it. I stuck for that guy more than anybody. I paid his bills, until I didn’t, and it was my decision not to. I’m trying to run a fucking business and when somebody, who hasn’t done a damn thing in this business, jeopardizes the first million dollar house that this company has ever drawn, off of my back, and goes on national television and does that, it’s a disgrace to this industry, it’s a disgrace to this company. We’re far beyond apologies. I gave him a fucking chance. It did not get handled. You saw what I had to do, which is very regrettable, lowering myself to his fucking level. That’s where we’re at right now. I will still walk up and down this hallway and say, ‘if you have a fucking problem with me, take it up with me.’ Let’s fucking go.”

Furthermore, CM Punk reiterated that he tried many different avenues to resolve his issues with Scott Colton, but at the end of the day, Colton went ahead with his lawsuit.

“Sorry to keep bringing this up, but I had never spoken a word about it. When it came down that he was going to sue me, I asked to talk to him. He refused. I asked for mediation, it was denied. I offered him money, he said it was not enough. He went ahead with the lawsuit and sued. It’s his fucking funeral, I don’t care. He shares a bank account with his mother, which tells you all you need to know about what kind of character that is.”

Turning his attention back to the EVPs, whom he never addresses by name, CM Punk says that he is doing his best to fill arenas while the EVPs think they are “in Reseda.” Reseda, California was the longtime home of PWG.

“I’ll tell you why I’m upset about it. If you’re an EVP, you don’t try to middle your top babyface, try to get your niche audience that is on the internet to try and hate him for some made-up, bullshit rumor. Really pisses me off. Stepping on your own dick, trying to fucking make money, sell tickets, fill arenas. These stupid guys think they’re in Reseda,” said Punk.

CM Punk also addressed Hangman Page claiming that he is not one who likes to take advice, rather he is someone who believes in trial and error. CM Punk, a fan of the history of wrestling, believes that it's not very wise to suggest that there is nothing to gain from listening to the advice of the veterans around in the AEW locker room.

“Our locker room, for all the wisdom and brilliance it has, isn’t worth shit when you have an empty-headed idiot, who has never done anything in the business do public interviews and say, ‘I don’t really take advice.’ Who the fuck do you think you are? That’s stupid. I’m on a team with Barry Bonds, Mark McGuire, Sammy Sosa, and I don’t need to work on my swing. I’m not gonna listen to these guys. Fucking go fuck yourself. I dare you to fucking say that to Terry Funk’s face. ‘I don’t need to listen to you Mr. Funk, I know what I’m doing.’ Fucking grow up,” CM Punk said.

For the record, Fightful originally reported the Punk-Cabana news this year, and we've never spoken to Kenny Omega or the Young Bucks outside of interviews, so the allegations Punk levied that the three leaked the Cabana-ROH story to the media were not true. Wrestling Observer's Dave Meltzer and Bryan Alvarez said the same thing. The story emerged from talent who were frustrated and under the impression that Punk and Cabana's ill will towards one another cost the well-liked Cabana a job he was enjoying. Tony Khan denied that was the reason this past week. Cabana eventually got put on ROH duty. We're told that Cabana had indicated to Khan before Punk's original return that he'd likely not be happy working there if Punk was in the company.

As for the element involving Hangman Page, we're told he wasn't in the building at the time of the scrum, but the heat from CM Punk's side had gone back to May. There were lines in promos that Punk believed were taking shots at him unfairly regarding the internal Colt Cabana rumors, and he took exception to them. Before Double or Nothing, Fightful had reported that Punk expressed that frustration to higher ups in AEW. We later found out that Hangman Page avoided answering several questions in media interviews as it pertained to those promos, in an effort to help things cool down. Upon Punk's return from injury in August, he called out Hangman Page unplanned as a "receipt," with his line of thinking being that it was fair to do so because Page was in the building.

Immediately after the scrum rant, talent had informed Fightful that Kenny Omega and the Young Bucks were extremely pissed off, and ended up in a brawl with Punk. Fightful Select had heard prior that at least one of the Young Bucks had been in contact with talent outside of AEW, indicating that many of the rumors heard about Punk and the frustration around him were true.

Some media believed The Elite were scheduled for the scrum, but an adjustment was made after Punk's portion of it, but that isn't confirmed. Around then, security went around the scrum area in a hurry. We haven't learned if that was related to this situation.

We were obviously cognizant of a work in this type of situation, but that quickly proved to not be the case.

Regardless of the situation, Fightful Select had already heard of several talent that are very upset with Punk's comments by the time he left the scrum.

The Fight

By the time the wee hours of the morning after All Out happened, word had emerged that CM Punk and Ace Steel and members of the Elite were involved in a physical confrontation. By the end of the press conference, several talent and media heard rumors that the incident had happened.

After CM Punk's AEW scrum where he buried Colt Cabana, Young Bucks, Hangman Page and others, he returned backstage, where an altercation occurred. The EVPs (Kenny Omega, Young Bucks) were still in the building, and we're told that there were numerous people that had to intervene. That's where the details of the situation get foggy based on which side of the account tells what.

What we can confirm is that Punk's trainer Ace Steel was involved, perhaps more than anyone from a physical perspective. It was eventually confirmed that Nick Jackson ended up getting a chair thrown at him by Steel, leaving him marked up after the fight. Kenny Omega and Steel were also have said to have "tussled," with Steel allegedly biting Omega and grabbing him by the hair. All accounts we've heard of the altercation involve these elements of the story. PWinsider had also noted Steel's wife was said to have been around, caring for Punk's dog. Since then there have been elements of her presence that haven't been made clear. We also learned that AEW Chief Legal Officer Megha Parekh was near the situation, and was informed by the Elite that they were going to speak with CM Punk. MJF was also nearby, and Chris Jericho became aware of the situation as it unfolded and poked his head in.

In all, Kenny Omega and The Young Bucks were suspended. Brandon Cutler, Pat Buck, Christopher Daniels and Michael Nakazawa were all present and were suspended as well. CM Punk and The Elite were forced to vacate their titles, and Steel's future is unknown. Punk and Steel's punishment were not immediately known.

"A lot of cursing, a lot of mayhem, and a lot of people not being willing to hash it out," said one person who was familiar with the situation.

We're told at least one of the coaches was "very torn up" about what happened. Right after Punk's scrum ended, a security guard ended up darting backstage, visible in Fightful's video of the scrum.

— Righteous Reg (@RighteousReg) September 5, 2022I found the part of the security homie running out of the scrum. pic.twitter.com/8rxAeUilSj

Tony Khan was not present for the fight, and was instead out at the media scrum, not far away. We're told the talent that immediately followed Punk had no idea of what he said or what was going on, either.

Security was called and there were "many people" trying to break everything up, with the aforementioned Michael Nakazawa, Pat Buck, Christopher Daniels and Brandon Cutler being around and later suspended. One person outright said it was a situation of "them trying to save lives." Right after the situation, there was a lot of heat on Ace Steel, with one person saying they weren't sure what happened, but that "it couldn't have possibly escalated to hitting someone with a chair."

The argument continued with a lot of cursing and shouting until The Elite left the area. We've heard from people who are siding with both, saying that Punk's comments prompted the situation, and others saying the Elite shouldn't have approached Punk while he was clearly pissed off. However, the large majority seem to think that Punk should have expected to have been approached about it.

For those asking, Hangman Page and FTR had left the building by then. FTR posted on Twitter that they were bonding with others in the locker room over a bottle of Woodford Reserve (gifted by Strong Style's Cher Delaware). It would seem like they, as well as many others in the locker room who had long left, would have likely not been in any condition to have a gang warz situation unfold. MJF was nearby, but didn't actively participate in anything, and we're told Jericho appeared at one point to express his dissatisfaction with the fight happening.

It was later confirmed to us that Ace Steel bit Kenny Omega, CM Punk threw punches, and a chair hit Nick Jackson in the eye. However, there are conflicting views on who started it. Some we spoke with believed that Punk should have expected to be confronted after the things he said. Another person said that the Young Bucks aggressively approached the locker room in what Punk could have construed as a 2-on-1 attack. We're told that the situation went on for "about six minutes."

We were told by another person high up in the company to not expect to hear much officially from the company due to possible legal issues. Fightful heard back from Hoffman Estates Police Department, who said "Hoffman States Police Department does not have any police reports, nor any documentation that police were requested, during AEW All Out event for anything that allegedly occurred backstage. The only police response at the event was regarding a family issue in the audience."

Almost unanimously, the talent that we've spoken to haven't been in favor of the way CM Punk handled things at all that evening. Even talent that typically would back Punk up either said that's not what they would have done, or haven't commented to us.

Punk/Steel's side

Fightful Select has learned more about the fight that went down at AEW All Out, as being told to people close to the Ace Steel-CM Punk side of things. It is unlikely we will receive impartial stories regarding this ever.

Per the Punk/Steel side of things -- After the scrum, The Young Bucks approached Punk's locker room, and Punk wasn't answering the door after having been in a long match, bloodied, and finished with an emotional scrum. The Bucks were said to have pounded on the door, with claims that they "kicked the door down." Since then, those detailing the situation softened that stance significantly and indicated that instead they "forced their way in." We should note that even upon hearing word that the door was "kicked down/in," we asked the party if they were sure, and even contacted the NOW Arena to find out if such a thing happened, which they said they hadn't heard of, albeit a week later. They also elaborated and claimed that the reason for this was due to Punk not wanting to talk with them as he was busy or getting medical attention. According to those close to Punk and Steel's side of things, Matt Jackson swung first but he missed and Punk responded. That stance later changed to saying they expected Matt Jackson to swing, but Punk did first. We're by that side that, by that point, Nick was pretty much taking it in. Omega and Steel then pushed their way into the room.

Those sources claim Ace Steel's wife was in the room, which is what Steel had told people set him off and made him go ballistic, throwing chairs and ending up biting someone. The claim made from him was that he was looking out for his wife above anything else. The Steel/Punk side say that Steel bit Omega because he thought Omega was attempting to crossface him

In the days that have followed the recalling of the stories, those that have been in touch with CM Punk and Ace Steel softened on the stance that the Young Bucks definitely kicked down the door. Instead, they've followed up with the idea that they could have kicked, shouldered or otherwise forced their way in. They said that "kicking the door down" was clearly a turn of phrase in that sense and should have clarified. The stance on Matt Jackson throwing a punch first seemed to change based on which party was telling the story, with one version later saying that Punk expected Matt to throw a punch.

The reason given was that Punk didn't feel like talking to anyone as he was either getting medical attention or had just been given it to take care of his cut. The side has also varied on what they've said caused Ace Steel to begin biting and throwing chairs, going from his wife being near, to him believing Kenny Omega was attacking CM Punk when he was trying to pull Punk off of one of the Young Bucks.

From what we heard, Omega didn't seem nearly as upset initially, but things got out of hand and he ended up being bitten. We're told the fight was a "very long" altercation, and that the talk back and forth did not stop after the brawl.

We need to point out, this is what we've heard as one side of the story as relayed to those close to CM Punk and Ace Steel.

Virtually all of the AEW roster we've spoken with believe that if Punk & Steel aren't let go, heavy amends will need to be made.

Omega, Young Bucks' side

Again, please note, as above, this is one side of the story. It is unlikely we will receive impartial stories regarding this ever.

Sources close to the Young Bucks/Kenny Omega side of things say that the Young Bucks went to talk to CM Punk, as he'd outlined they should do if they had a problem. However, we're told that they hadn't actually been listening to the scrum, and were only notified when someone close to them showed up and told them, visibly upset. They went to find AEW Chief Legal Officer Megha Parekh to accompany them, which she did.

The claim was that they opened the door -- not kicking it in as claimed by the other side -- and before Matt Jackson could say anything, Punk went off and started throwing punches at Matt's head. Nick went to intervene, and Ace Steel threw a chair and hit Nick in the face.

The Kenny Omega involvement was said to be him trying to remove Larry (CM Punk's dog) from the situation to help keep him safe because he was barking and going nuts. Their side of the story says that once he handed Larry off, he tried to get Ace Steel off Nick Jackson, and Ace Steel bit Omega and pulled his hair.

Perhaps the only light hearted aspect we heard was when someone joked "He got bit," and someone assumed Larry The Dog bit Omega, only to learn it was allegedly Steel. Those we've spoken to say that the bite marks on Omega's left forearm would be hard to avoid being seen if Omega was photographed any time in the weeks following the situation. We were told it was "unmistakable," that it was a bite. It's worth noting that in his pictures with Kota Ibushi over a week later, Omega's left forearm where the bite was, was not in the photos. In another video from his Japan trip, he was wearing long sleeves.

We'd heard all sides continued shouting, with allegations of legal threats from Punk's side immediately. There were also discussions of several people implying they'd "walk out," which all seemed to quickly calm.

Again, this is one side of the confrontation, and categorically different than the one we've heard was shared by Punk/Steel to those close to them.

Both Sides

At this point, a week later, pretty well all sides agree that all the mentioned parties were involved. It was also agreed that Punk threw the first punch, and Ace Steel threw a chair and bit Kenny Omega. Omega was seen sporting a disgusting bite mark after. Also, it was agreed that Megha Parekh was present.

AEW Dynamite fallout

It comes as no surprise based on the content that unfolded on AEW Dynamite on September 7, but there were no explicit mentions of the situation or the parties involved in the Brawl Out 2022 situation permitted. This went for commentary, in promos, on social media or elsewhere. Those that we spoke to believe that this is being done for many reasons, but specifically for potential legal reasons. The Young Bucks, Kenny Omega and CM Punk are also no longer advertised for any upcoming shows.

One talent believes that considering the nature of the situation and possible legal ramifications, not mentioning anyone on television is a "better safe than sorry" move. Especially considering how much of the crux of the argument in general was about public perception, and referencing any of the parties in any context can contribute to that after the most heated situation in AEW history.

So far, talent haven't been told explicitly what is to become of CM Punk, but most of them we spoke with are under the impression that it's all pending an investigation, and his injury status. There is still an incredible amount of heat on CM Punk, and would have been based on the scrum regardless. As of that September 7 Dynamite, much of the heat we're hearing on Punk was just as much about his scrum rant than anything. Punk had long been rubbing the locker room the wrong way, but one source said that blaming him for all of the locker room issues of late simply was not fair, as they had reached an all-time high when Punk was gone.

When we spoke to the AEW roster on September 7, many indicated that after the show there was a much more positive vibe, with one saying it couldn't have been worse than the chaos of the previous days. That same source said that the situation was "out of sight, out of mind" for plenty of the roster who just wanted to show up and work. Another talent said the best way for all parties to make up the public embarrassment would be to get over the issues, make money for the company and highlight other talent along the way.

We're told that as of the Tuesday prior to Dynamite on September 7 , much of the roster didn't know what they were going to be allowed to say or if they could address it, and some of their content had to be adjusted accordingly. On Sunday, Fightful had reported that a top talent was set to take some time off, which Jon Moxley confirmed to be him. AEW sources had indicated that they'd planned on him being back by the Cincinnati show in October at least, but he ended up staying to help conduct a talent meeting, add star power to the show, and participate in the title tournament.

The Injury

In the days that followed, Fightful learned that CM Punk had sustained an injury during his All Out match, which ended up being a triceps that would require surgery, which he underwent within days of the injury happening. It was confirmed to use that it happened on a dive during his match with Jon Moxley, and he could be seen checking on it. He was also icing it with drinks during the controversial scrum. So at the very least, CM Punk wouldn't be around until 2023 anyway. This led to several people that we spoke to saying that any paid suspension would be superficial anyway. They also noted that AEW is in a position where he was injured in their ring before any of that unfolded, so not paying him could be an issue.

Several sources that Fightful spoke to said that either Punk would need to leave the company, make major amends, or hope time heals those locker room wounds if he hopes to return to a welcoming locker room environment.

Suspensions Lifted, Aftermath

Chris Jericho was credited by several that we spoke to for stepping up even more so in a leadership role over the past couple of weeks. Multiple sources cited his calm demeanor at the scrum in the middle of all of the wildness that was going on, and him speaking at the AEW talent meeting in the weeks prior to All Out, as well as the talent meeting on September 7.

Jericho, Bryan Danielson and Jon Moxley held a well-received talent meeting on September 7 ahead of AEW Dynamite. Wrestlers, managers, referees and announcers were in attendance, and were asked to keep their dirty laundry private, as opposed to the numerous stories that had leaked in the previous weeks. The talent we spoke that were there wouldn't elaborate out of respect for the hosts, but said it was much more well received than the talent meeting weeks prior. Moxley and Danielson are already well liked in the locker room, but Moxley gained praise for skipping his vacation to bail AEW out, and Danielson was said to have been a "calming, warm" presence.

There were several wrestlers who were not sure of their creative for the following AEW Dynamite as a result of this, and plenty that had to be altered. There was initially some sympathy as it relates to MJF's return for some, but not that much considering everyone was generally left in the dark regarding MJF's status for months and said All Out mirrored that of Punk winning the title in Vegas, and Wardlow beating him, but everyone speaking about MJF. Those we spoke to had not heard of any heat between MJF and Punk prior to Punk basically mentioning MJF as one of the stubborn kids he had to work with.

Ahead of the September 14 AEW Dynamite. Michael Nakazawa, Pat Buck, Christopher Daniels and Brandon Cutler all had their Brawl Out suspensions lifted after only one week. Pat Buck was backstage at AEW Dynamite, while Daniels and Nakazawa were already on a planned trip to Japan, but will now participate in matches for AEW at Tokyo Game Show. Obviously Nakazawa and Cutler are close with Omega and Young Bucks respectively, but we haven't heard from any side that anything malicious happened involving any of these formerly suspended parties as of yet, and they were all deemed to have simply been making an effort to restore order or break up the fight.

Everyone that we spoke to with knowledge of the situation said they believed the four were suspended preliminarily and for precautionary reasons until the situation became more squared away.

The Young Bucks and Kenny Omega remain suspended, and as of week there was no timetable on a return. Omega already had planned the week off. CM Punk and Ace Steel's status' are uncertain, but Punk is sidelined with an injury and Steel was not at the September 14 Dynamite. Omega was originally supposed to work with AEW Games for the Tokyo Game Show, but as a result of his suspension, did not. He did make his originally planned trip, however.

AEW has still not officially confirmed the suspensions publicly or to media.

WWE reactions

CM Punk's media scrum and the fallout also caught the attention of EVPs in AEW, and also wrestlers around the industry.

There were numerous WWE talent that reached out to Fightful to get the notes of what all went down, as well as details behind the skirmish at AEW All Out. A top WWE star said that they believe that the CM Punk that they knew years ago is being highlighted.

Another WWE talent said that if it was a work, it was one of the most elaborate works they've ever seen. A third talent said much of the same -- "If this Punk press scrum thing is a work.. bravo." Both had contacted Fightful before Raw and said that they learned individually it wasn't a work and expressed surprise that it even happened. There was confusion from both of those as to why Tony Khan would not comment in the follow up about Punk bashing the EVPs and not providing clarity regarding the people who launched the company with him.

"You can't expect a lot of people here to have a lot of positive things to say about Punk, and I think he's aware of that and has probably come to peace with it," one talent who worked with Punk in the past said. "I feel like he's trying to run things there, and it looks like he's doing it."

Another longtime main eventer told us that they considered Punk's actions unprofessional and don't believe he's the company man or leader that he made himself out to be. That same person would call Punk "selfish and arrogant." This sentiment was echoed by several we spoke to, including some talent that worked on set with Punk at FOX.

A WWE official said that they agreed with Tony Khan that wrestlers not liking each other wasn't bad for wrestling, but said that in situations like Punk and the Elite's, that power had to be asserted in order to let everyone know that wasn't tolerable. The same official said that kind of thing didn't happen as often recently in WWE -- except for the likes of Chris Jericho and Brock Lesnar -- because talent knew that if they did that while Vince McMahon was there, they probably weren't going to be welcomed back. With situations where it did happen, like Alberto Del Rio, they were fired.

Another top WWE name told us that if the parties involved don't put their issues aside and make money with it that "none of them have business talking about drawing houses or losing fans or interest. They have a good show but this is still the biggest piece of business they've done and they have to capitalize." The same source pointed to Matt Hardy, Edge, MJF, and Kurt Angle as people who have been willing to do that and accelerated their careers.

It must be reiterated again, that the actual accounts of the brawl are very "he said, she said" in nature, and should not be taken as gospel. It is very unlikely we ever learn the exact happenings of said situation considering that nature of things.

Thank you to Jeremy Lambert for the transcripts