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House of The Dragon 2x08 Full Reaction (Patreon)

Published:
2024-08-07 00:46:08
Edited:
2024-08-07 00:46:11
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dragon 208 full

Comments

KIMI

If I was in that writer's room Rhaenyra and Alicent would've kissed fr

BigJo H

Genuinely crazy that the war is supposed to be between Rhaenyra and Aegon and they never shared a word. Really could've made the tragedy of the family killing each other even more impactful. For some reason the writers want to make the war only about Alicent and Rhaenyra but its simply not

Max Carter

We really didn't need more secret meetings between Rhaenyra and Alicent. Unlike some I don't necessarily think that every season finale needs to be action packed with huge fight scenes or set pieces but I do think this was a let down of a finale for a show that we won't see the next episode of for another few years probably

BigJo H
>>145843327

Also if they were gonna do this scene then the one in episode 3 shouldn't have happened.

Arctic_stark

Im am so glad you both have developed empathy for Aegons character and can see what Alicent did is utter ridiculous. I see some other reactors happy about Alicent putting her kids on the chopping block because they have no empathy for Aegon and Aemond, which is really sad.

Arctic_stark
>>145840593

This is one of the biggest issues with the show and why it's almost unfixable at this point. The story should've transitioned from Alicent vs. Rhaenyra to Aegon vs. Rhaenyra this season, and for the first half of season 2 it felt like it's going that way. But now it's regressed again and they're having Alicent do ridiculous things to stay relevant to the story.

Arctic_stark
>>145843327

The writers justification for having Alicent and Rhaenyra scenes is that fans would want to see them together. But that is NOT a good reason to do them. In the original series, think of how many amazing interactions could've happened, such as Ned/Tywin; Tywin/Stannis etc. But you dont just do silly things to make these scenes happen and break reality in the show.

Nyeisha Melvina Clark

I can't quite put all of my thoughts into just a post or it would be an extremely long post. But I do have to say this and you girls may disagree but I feel like the writing for Rhaenrya and Alicent is being done horribly in this show, that last scene was genuinely the worst scene in the show for me because it derails all character of both girls and seems like it was done purely for fanservice. While I liked the friendship aspect of the show in the first season, and felt like it was a good starting point for both girls, in this season it has become a hindrance to both women and has stunted their growth, and in doing so has become a hindrance to the show. Milena spoke about wanting to see more of a connection between Rhaenrya and Aegon so that it would feel like a brother and sister fighting, and that's the thing, THAT'S exactly what it was in the book, a brother and sister fighting, NOT two best friends, in the book when Alicent and Otto tried to convince Aegon to usurp the throne, the first thing he said was "What kind of a brother steals his sisters birthright". They ended up convincing him by claiming that Rhaenrya would kill Him, along with Aemond, Haleana, and Daeron, so he only accepted to keep his other siblings safe, we don't get ANY of that here, and the show suffers for it. Long rant over, but also wanted to add, someone online said that the last scene literally sounded like two twitter users, one a Rhaenrya stan and one an Alicent stan, arguing with each other on twitter, and thats exactly what it sounds like, like it was a scene purely done for the online audience and NOT for the characters.

BigJo H
>>145847222

It did feel like a scene written by twitter lol. No acknowledgement of Jaeharys even when Rhaenyra says a son for a son because fuck the greens i guess. Treating Aegon and Aemond like they are just trash to get rid off. Even asking Rhaenyra to come with her

BigJo H

https://youtu.be/NSRxYhCB1D8?si=uSIrWQ5eUaNGAcKl Here is a podcast where the showrunner talks about this episode. His part starts at 46:15

Melkor
>>145847222

Spot on you are completely correct that this war is supposed to feel like a sibling fight and it totally doesn’t unlike in the book.

Melkor

The gods eye is the lake at Harenhall. Please go look up a detailed map of westeroes and save it.

madgod

In the book its actually team black vs team green. In the show its everyone vs Aemond. What a disappointment.

madgod

Anyone else remember in S1E9 when Alicent put herself between Meleys and Aegon? No? Good cause Alicent doesn't either

Sebastian

i enjoyed the season as a whole but yeah the alicent rhaenyra scene was such a mixed bag to end on. arguably the most compelling aspect of alicent is that her heart is split between her kids and rhaenyra, so to have her give up aegon/aemmond takes away that complexity and leaves her without an arc halfway through the show imo. overall i feel the show would be better off leaning on the grayness of team black but having alicent confess she was “wrong” does the opposite (the prophecy stuff also doesn’t help)

Sebastian
>>145856216

the director of the ep briefly detailed their thoughts on the scene here https://imgur.com/a/8WDffny full article under https://ew.com/house-of-the-dragon-season-2-finale-game-of-thrones-daenerys-cameo-director-geeta-vasant-patel-8690097

Mathias Lorétan

People want characters they like to be good. They don't like that what makes sense for a character might be to be terrible. Alicent has always been a terrible mother, she loves but mostly hates aegon. To give him up to pay the "price" for all of her misdeeds is not a heroic sacrifice, it's desperate and delusional attempt at self-realization. SHE HAS NEVER BEEN A GOOD PERSON. Although her character is fascinating and very sympathetic, people should not project their own idea of morality or rationality on a character who is clearly neither. Absolutely loved that scene between her and rhaenyra. Y'all crying about fanfiction are off your rockers.

Robert H.

I really hope that in the next season Alicent dies and the focus is put more on Aegon and Aemond, so that they become the rivals of Rhaenyra. The conflict between the two former friends doesn't work anymore for me this season and it seems like it's different in the book too, reading the other comments here. Also, Alicent's character development is complete as she frees herself from her father's scheming and gives up the throne for her children.

Robert H.

Since I just listened to the discussion as a podcast: I read a funny theory on Reddit that Silverwing has feelings for a baby dragon towards Ulf because he came from the nest with the eggs :D

Raphael
>>145856216

The director basically said the theme of season 2 is sacrifice. Alicent's decision of betraying or giving up on Aegon at the end is related to that theme. Which kind of make sense as in season 1 when Alicent was holding the dagger towards Rhaenyra, (after Aemond lost his eye) she said:" Where's duty? Where's sacrifice?" and the first words of season 2 from Cregan Stark also said:"Duty is sacrifice. It eclipses all things, even blood." But I wish they fleshed out how Alicent got to that decision a bit more.

jweher

The show completely removing Alicent’s main motivation for taking the throne (securing power to protect her children) and making it all about what Viserys wanted was my first red flag of the season. Alicent abusing Aegon because she’s a bad mother who can’t stand to look at the result of her horrible marriage makes sense! Alicent agreeing to kill Aegon because a person she hasn’t been friends with for 20 years wants the throne? Completely out of character and utterly ridiculous. The writers have developed this weird theory that allowing mothers to care about their children is somehow falling into sexist tropes about female characters/motherhood. That’s why we see Helaena barely grieve Jaehaerys. Why Alicent seems to care about her ex best friend and her personal freedom (whatever that means in a medieval society lol) more than her kids. Why Rhaenyra had to move on from the death of her son in an episode. Meanwhile Daemon spends the entire season unpacking his grief for Viserys. BECAUSE GRIEF CAN AFFECT YOU FOR MORE THAN A DAY! But only if you’re a man! Ultimately, the writers have completely failed the female characters of the show. Women cannot make difficult decisions, or be ambitious, or get angry and vindictive. They were allowed to be more than one thing in season 1, but season 2–in trying to criticize the patriarchy—has unintentionally treated its female characters in a very sexist way.

jweher

Even if people don’t see how the writing has become unintentionally sexist for its female cast, you cannot tell me this is the most compelling thing they could’ve done to Alicent, Rhaenyra, and Helaena. Alicent having her realizations in season 2 is way too early. She will literally have nothing to do in season 3 and 4 at this point. If protecting her children isn’t enough of a reason to make her a proactive character in the war, then what will? This show is about a civil war, giving up on the war in s2 instead of s4 means her character will be useless. Book Alicent’s role was to scheme and plot for her children to win. Show Alicent is done with plotting and scheming. I’m kind of in disbelief at how they decided to adapt her arc.

jweher

“A son for a son” Alicent doesn’t mention Jaehaerys in response. When Helaena goes into Daemon’s vision, the person who killed her son, she’s nothing more than a tool for his character development. She does not react to her son’s killer. In the book she is described as “mad with grief” over her boy. Just nonsensical character writing in S2 lol. I’m glad Aegon at least is written to have realistic human emotions. And Criston too.

Michael Cannon

I had a very similar reaction to this episode. I liked it but as an Alicent fan this was rough. She put her kids through hell, sets all this up creating a situation where R is backed into a corner... and then wants to wash her hands and gives up her son? I just don't know. Personally, I think if Aegon never challenges R does not kill him. Maybe she gets into conflict with Aemond later on (though again, The greens worked hard to poison his mind too). Evil behavior unfortunately, and I think it reduces the prior story to Good guys vs bad guys.

Melkor
>>145860429

Agreed tho I’m a book reader and sadly can’t respond to your comment with anything more. :/

Ryan Crumley
>>145868173

I tend to agree, except in the case of Helaena. I don’t think I have enough pieces to say she’s been poorly handled at all. You could argue she should have grieved or shown more feeling toward her children, but we’re also talking about someone who sewed her son’s funeral shroud before he was dead. The way she experiences emotions or even time isn’t really comparable to any other character.

jweher
>>145868173

I’m not saying she should be sobbing and fuming like a “normal” (for lack of a better word) person does. But Jaehaerys’ death should be haunting the narrative, particularly through his mother and father. It is really odd that his death didn’t shake the entire family dynamic. Her saying “i feel sad about jaehaerys” and never mentioning him again removes his influence on the plot and her character. How does she feel about Aemond’s role in his death? She’s different from most people, but not so different that her son’s death becomes basically irrelevant and inconsequential to her. I’m gonna digress for a second but i do think this is a wider issue in the show, like Aemond and Aegon’s beef having NOTHING to do with fact that Aegon’s son was murdered in retaliation for something Aemond did was really weird to me. Like, no one brought it up. Not a single loaded comment from Aegon or Alicent. I don’t think death is handled well in the show in general, the 2 child deaths that cause the war to escalate take a back seat to other, less emotionally driven, motivations to fight the war.

BigJo H
>>145868173

Also having her give guidance to the man who murdered her son is crazy and idk how a writer doesn't see that

jweher
>>145868173

She is very close to becoming like season 8 bran. Devoid of emotion because of her visions and thus devoid of anything human to connect us to her. Like seriously, why is she guiding Daemon of all people lol? Edit: i’m not saying she’s devoid of emotion btw but she has a few scenes (like the daemon one) that makes me fear they’re starting to take her there

cosmotron

Well, after seeing all the comments on here I guess I might as well add in my two cents on the Alicent and Rhaenyra scene. I've read a lot of different criticisms, and I can see where people are coming from, but I actually really liked that scene, and I don't think it's out of character. It feels very much like something that has been building slowly over time. For one, Alicent has very consistently tried to avoid bloodshed, and has always tried to do what she believes is the right thing, alongside what will protect her kids. She used that cloak of righteousness to defend everything she did. She was doing her duty, and doing her duty is Right and Good, because that is what she has been raised to believe. A lot of this season has been her actively reckoning with all of that, and coming to realize how flawed her thinking was, and the destructive fallout that has happened because of it. You guys have talked before about the complicated mixture of love and resentment she feels toward her kids. All of that is very true, and I think it factors into her choice here as well. She failed Aemond and Aegon, and knows she can't do anything to stop Daeron. She's realized how much of what she's done has been a mistake, and she knows it can't be undone. But if she stays, if she and Heleana and her granddaughter stay with their family, they are likely to die. Right now, Rhaenyra looks to have gained a huge upper hand, and one that they will not be able to defend against very easily. So, I think there's a lot of complexity going on here. Because what Alicent has been asked to do, is to ensure the safety of her daughter and granddaughter, that they can go free wherever they wish, if she gives up Aegon (and yes, the rest of her family). And I think it's really easy for us to be like "a mother would never choose to abandon her kids!" but ignore the reality of the difficult choice that is being presented here. Alicent is being presented with two options: stay with her family, and her daughter and granddaughter will die when Rhaenyra takes the throne (a thing she now thinks is inevitable with the advantage she now has). Sure, they could just try to run on their own, but they would be fugitives, and just as likely to die that way. So, what's her other choice then? If you had to choose between a situation in which your entire family dies, not to mention countless others, vs a situation in which you think your daughter and granddaughter will live and all those lives are more likely to be spared? Is it really so easy to claim that no mother would make that choice? If presented with an option where she thinks she can spare one of them alongside her granddaughter...I absolutely get it. And I don't think it reduces the way she tried to protect her children in the past either, because the situations are not remotely the same. I'm also someone that has read Fire and Blood, I'm currently listening to the audiobook, and tbh I don't get the idea that these characters have been flattened. They *aren't* actual characters in the book. Not only are many of their given characteristics unclear (as an example, one claim in F&B is that Alicent wanted to bathe in the blood of Blood and Cheese's family, which another says that she possessed no vengeful feelings of the sort, and etc). In my opinion, all of the characters in the show feel far more like real people. Often contradictory, people who can say and mean something but still choose a different action, and vice versa. I get that most people in these comments disagree with me, but the characters in the show feel more nuanced and complex than they are in the book by far. It's okay if you feel differently - it's clear a lot of people do - but I think a lot of people also have this memory of the book and the characters in it as more solidly defined and characterized than they actually are. And it's also okay if the choices made in the show don't work for you, but I genuinely think a lot of them have made for more interesting and compelling characters. I hope this comment at least helps explain my point of view, even if you don't agree.

Elli
>>145868173

But it's not crazy. She knows the Song of Ice and Fire, and knows that Daemon is crucial to Rhaenyra winning the throne, which is crucial to the events of Game of Thrones. She understands the way things need to go for people to survive and will help the people that need it.

jweher
>>145868173

But that’s not interesting at all. Making Helaena a tool for the other characters to get into their “destined” positions in order to build on a storyline that everyone hated in a show that ended 5 years ago is BAD. Making her a compelling character who feels anger, grief, hatred etc and is also plagued of visions of how her family dies and being tortured by not being able to stop it is 10x better. We already saw how a character being omniscient and losing touch with their emotions ends up being boring with Bran’s character in s8. Seeing Daemon and not saying a single word about her dead son, and only apathetically telling him he has a part to play, is very much Bran in s8 when he saw the man who pushed him out a window and reacted like a robot.

Raphael
>>145870056

Mentioning Jaehaerys won't change a damn thing though. Rhaenyra ain't gonna be like, you know what, you are right, I forgot about that. I don't need to take Aegon's head. You can't just single out one line and analyze the line out of context. The whole dialogues are: "If I am to take the throne, I must put an end to the opposition. I must take Aegon's head. And I have to do it for all to see. You know this. However you may try to evade it, you know this. Choose. Will you shrink from what you set out to do, or will you see it through, and make your sacrifice? A son for a son." The dialogue frame as a Yes or No question. You could definitely argue Alicent's response to that question, but there is no reason to mention Jaehaerys at the moment.

jweher
>>145870056

It doesn’t have to *change* anything. The fact that Alicent’s mind doesn’t immediately go to her dead grandson when Rhaenyra frames this as “a son for a son” is ridiculous. Why would Rhaenyra even say “a son for a son” in this context? She’s saying she’ll have to kill Aegon because he’s the opposition, so i’m confused why she’s even framing it as “an eye for an eye” situation.

Raphael
>>145870056

I do have problem with Alicent response, but it's more about how we got to that point. She basically has no dialogue or actually interactions with Aegon after episode 4. All of Aegon scenes post injury are with the Maester and Larys. If Alicent decides to go to dragonstone and make a plea deal with Rhaenyra, she has to decide giving up Aegon prior to that. Maybe that magic lake bath and bird does give her a whole new perspective lol.

jweher
>>145870056

And I’m simply saying that the entire meeting occurring is nonsensical and bad writing. I disagree with the whole direction they took her character in, and everything that was said in that scene, and how all of it was framed.

Raphael
>>145870056

This meeting happened because of the first meeting happened in episode 3. The writers said themselves smh, they wanna mirror two meetings and show the growth of the two main characters. Kinda feel like an excuse to write scenes for Emma and Olivia together and make both of them Emmy nominated.

jweher
>>145870056

I hated that meeting too. It created the narrative that these two women are fighting simply because of a prophecy/viserys’ words, and that was the beginning of the end for their arcs this season.

Caraxes🐐DT

No Helaena not the 3 eyed raven lol the 3 eyed raven is the guy we see wit the birthmark in his face he’s a Targaryen bastard but he’s not born yet…also the writer of the show said daemon thinks that dany is a future daughter by him and rhaenyra lol they think the white walkers could come at any moment so him thinking dany is a daughter and not from the distant future so makes sense.

Raphael
>>145870056

Hopefully WBD executes see the audiences' responses and give the show a bigger budget and 10 episodes. Also, no more writers' strike could mean they can revise and rewrite scripts during the filming.

Jason Parker
>>145919011

I agree with you. I really enjoyed the Alicent and Rhaenyra scene. I was surprised to see how many people online disliked it. I personally never felt that Alicent loved Aegon. Even when he was a baby it seemed raising him was a just a duty to her. In doing so she ended up raising two terrible sons. It's taken a while but she realizes she was wrong and she also powerless to change anything. From Alicents point of view her whole family will be killed in the near future. It just makes more sense to me that she would make a desperate attempt to at least save Helaena and her grandchild. Alicent is a bad mother and a bad person but I still think she's a good character and she's still one of my favorites.

Wanda Did Nothing Wrong
>>145868173

Why does she have to have a go at him? She showed him his death. He was literally drowning in the gods eye during that scene. She can be enraged and grief stricken with Daemon, and Aemond over his part in her son’s death, but what’s the point in giving anyone that satisfaction when she’s seen how both of them die. And how soon it’s going to happen. To me she seemed pretty smug when talking to both Aemond and Daemon, not unfeeling.

BigJo H
>>145868173

Well it is needed because everyone is acting like Jahaerys didn't exist. In the same episode where Alicent doesn't mention Jahaerys when Rhaenyra says a son for a son. In the same episode where when Aegon mentions the multiple things that makes him want to give up on life and doesn't mention the murder of his child especially because he cant even conceive any heir now. In that same episode the mother is face to face with his child's killer and decides to give him guidance? Im sorry but we do need some acknowledgement of the murder of little boy and how it affected his family. I dont think its too much to ask to want that. And i feel like as a writer when you make a scene between Heleana and Daemon, that should be the first thing that comes to mind. She was more antagonistic towards her brother than Daemon.

sakurabraus

Since you were talking about books in both Haikyuu and the dragon show, i was wondering if you ever read the gentlemen bastard's saga by Scott Lynch? It's one of my favorite saga ever and i'm sure you'll love it. We're following a band of thieves who grew up togother in a fantasy world, you will adore the characters and their bonds. There is Babel too by R.F Kuang that is right up your alley i think. It's the most impactul book i've read this year, it made me think of black sails so much. It's obviously not the same thing, there is no pirate and it is not taking place in the years 1700 but in 1800 and there is a bit of magic in it. But still, babel condemns the British empire. I cannot do it justice, espacially not in english lol but just read it, you will not regret it.