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AN: This is the post for December 1st
The only edit is 'reposting' this for those who want to read at the 'normal' rate

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A crippled body fell into the chapel, his spine broken. He looked young, a fresh recruit from the farm off to join the glorious Zhao armies.

He had a home. Friends, family, a fiancee waiting with bitten nails for him to come back home. To settle down and grow rice.

Nina took three quick steps forward, and with a sharp downward blow, caved his head in. Bronze and brain went flying as she got the kill notification.

Nina skipped backwards, returning her mace and round shield to the standard guard position, on the balls of her feet waiting for the next blow, the next attacker, the next thing she had to protect against.

Her eyes were locked on Iona’s broad back, marveling at the tempest of destruction occurring right outside the door. How, no matter the blow, no matter the attack, Iona was there, seamlessly transitioning from stance to stance, move to move, flawlessly slaying all those who would come. Stacking bodies up like firewood.

Nina hesitated, and seeing a minor lull in the battle, rushed forward again. She ignored the gore as she pushed and pulled the body into position at the doorway, making a minor speedbump that anyone trying to break in would need to step over.

Why were we here? Nina wondered, but no, that wasn’t the right question. She knew why they were there. The simplest answer was “because Iona said so” or “Because the goddesses had asked”, but it was deeper than that. More fundamental. They were protecting a life.

A searing pain cut through her ear and she jumped back, snout bared into a snarl.

Then the pain hit, and the snarl redoubled in volume as Nina refused to whimper, turning the pain into anger. A quick look around revealed the culprit, a broken arrowhead with a tuft of her fur sunk deep into the stone altar.

Nina paled.

That was almost Feng. If she hadn’t insisted he hide behind the altar, that would’ve killed him, and that would’ve been that.

The [Squire] shot her shield up, intercepting a pair of slower arrows that Iona let through, then jumped forward and stomped on a small metal skill-bug. She didn’t know what skills were attached to it or what it could do, but either way she wasn’t going to let it get to the tiny [Emperor] and find out.

Another soldier - no, boy, the rusty-faced teenager looked younger than Nina - made it in. Iona had clearly chosen to let him through for Nina to handle, choosing to deal with other issues instead.

He stabbed poorly at her, but Nina was used to it now. It was no trap, no trick, no deception. She angled her shield, redirecting the force of the blow as she stepped in close. An underhand shot with her mace to the groin disabled the teenager, then a swift mace to the head made him collapse in a heap at the floor.

No notification though. The boy had a hard head.

Nina gritted her fanged teeth and smashed down, one, twice, thrice, before finally getting the notification that it was over. She stepped back into the guard position, a habit long drilled into her by Iona, and was rewarded when several razor-sharp leaves came spinning into the room. She intercepted one with her mace, a second with her shield, but the entire room shook with the force of an angry god as something hit them hard. Nina tripped and fell onto the leaf, impossibly cutting her leg down to the bone.

She hissed in pain. The kitsune limped over to the most recent body, tore a strip of cloth off, and wrapped it around her leg, trying to stem the flow of blood.

Why are we killing them? That wasn’t the right question either. They were attacking, Iona and Nina were defending. They were trying to kill the two of them, defending themselves was only natural.

A grease fire erupted by the door, and Nina jumped back coughing, pulling her shirt up over her mouth. She’d already pulled the wood away from the door, and there wasn’t much she could do about a magical, skill-empowered fire. Her Fire element was a [Warrior] one, it didn’t include [Flame Manipulation] or [Fire Resistance].

Lightning and Ice roared down cataclysmically outside the door, removing all questions about how to handle the fire. After a few minutes of Fenrir’s displeasure raining down on the Zhao, there was sudden silence, broken only by the falling of trees and some soft tears behind the altar.

Nina poked her head back, only to see Feng wiping away his tears. He sniffed, looked at her, and drew himself up to his full height. He blabbed something to her that she missed. Nina put her hand on his head and pushed him back down, ignoring the spluttered complaints.

“Stay down!” She hissed at him, wary of another stray attack killing the boy.

A blinding light blazed past the door, and Nina gasped in horror as Iona took the blow head-on. Blood dripped freely, and corpses littered the area, almost making a hill of bodies.

Nina tried to quickly count how many bodies there were, but utterly failed. A quick eyeballing with unfortunately experienced eyes told her over a thousand bodies were littered around the ground, and those were just the ones she could tell, who still had intact corpses.

Why is his life worth more? Nina asked herself.

That, at last, was the right question. Part of Nina wondered about it, while the rest of her marveled at an injured Iona fighting not one, but two [Great Generals] to a standstill, all while preventing anyone else from getting close to the door.

Why was the young [Emperor’s] life worth more than anyone else’s? Oh, sure, on an individual basis it was easy to proclaim a protection for children. The royalty aspect didn’t matter in the slightest to Nina.

But a dozen people? Were a dozen lives worth the young boy’s?

A hundred lives? All full and rich, many of the [Soldiers] involuntarily conscripted from their farms and villages? They didn’t want to be here much more than Feng did. They arguably had far fewer options than the young [Emperor] did regarding their presence on the battlefield, them being forced into the blender of whirling metal and violence called Iona.

A thousand lives? How could one person be worth more than a thousand lives? If they were all old and with millions of heinous crimes under their belt, sure, a single innocent soul was worth more. But the souls outside, with a few exceptions of the leadership, were just as innocent as the boy’s. A different fate, different circumstances of their birth, but they were being harvested like rice.

Why were their lives worth less than a tiny fraction of the [Emperor’s]? How were the scales balanced there?

Nina knew she hadn’t grown up with the most… intact ethical compass. Her morals could most generously be described as ‘loose’, and she tried to put herself in various shoes, see what everyone thought.

The boy, of course, wanted to live. He was innocent.

The soldiers, too, wanted to live, to no longer be in the war. To go home, and live a peaceful life.

The generals were too far away, too esoteric for Nina to figure out. If anyone should die, they should. Them, and their own nobility and leaders, the ones pushing them to this cause of action.

Nina’s thoughts drifted back to the [Emperor], arguably, possibly one of the ones driving the entire conflict. If not his orders now and today, then his simple presence and existence was causing the fighting. He was the head of the snake. Perhaps the jewel on the tip of the snake’s nose.

With his death, the battle would be over.

Nina thought about what everyone else had been saying, what she’d been told and seen.

No.

With his death, the entire war might be over. There were tens of millions of souls in the Han empire, suffering under the civil war.

How could the scales possibly balance?

What justification did Nina have to extend the battle, the war, when the safety and comfort of so many relied on a single thin thread?

The fact that the two of them would die for the prince did admittedly enter into Nina’s thoughts. The survival instinct was engraved deep into the former street rat’s psyche, the fundamental underpinning to everything else built on top of her mind. To her great credit, she examined the idea, recognized its validity, and dismissed it, doing her level best to not factor it into her thinking and decision making. A near-impossible bias to avoid, but Nina did her best to put herself in Feng Tiazi’s shoes, and go over her thoughts once more.

She took a deep, shuddering breath.

The move would damn her. If the gods and goddesses didn’t smite her, Iona would, and she’d undoubtedly be thrown out of the Valkyries. Her future would be ruined, if she had one at all, and everyone would hate her.

She’d never go back home. Never see Elaine again. Never hear Auri’s bright chirps. Never get told to run laps, haul water, get scolded for a bad stance or warmly praised and hugged when she got something right. Her path terminated here.

Nina mentally added her life on the grand scales in her mind next to the prince’s, seeing if they’d tip at all. Praying, with tears in her eyes, that she could justify another route, another path.

The scales remained firmly tipped, and with a shuddering breath, Nina knew what she had to do.

The kitsune walked to the back of the tabernacle, and placed a hand on the altar, sending a quick prayer of forgiveness up. The gods could mess with the cycle of reincarnation, and in her last hours, Nina didn’t want to piss them off more than she had to.

Sorry about this. She prayed, then leaned over to the [Emperor].

No, not Emperor. Think of him as he is, and don’t cloak what I’m doing in pretty words.

Her tear-filled eyes locked with Feng Tiazi’s, and she smiled sadly.

“I’m so sorry.” She apologized, and the mace came down.

===============================

Iona twirled her glaive like a quarterstaff, the two [Great Generals] wary enough of the invisible blade at the end. A quarterstaff was the perfect weapon for fighting off multiple powerful attackers, and the constant threat of a lethal blow coming from any direction was enough to keep them cautious and wary, working on wearing her down one hit at a time, instead of committing to finishing the fight.

A tearful Nina stepped out, gently cradling a body. Iona didn’t let herself get distracted as Nina started shouting.

“It’s over! He’s dead!” She yelled, the two generals backing off from the deadly Valkyrie. Softer, quietly, Nina spoke again.

“He’s dead.” She sobbed.

Iona’s mind turned as she tried to work out what had happened. The goddesses had kept the building preserved. Nina was barely injured. She hadn’t seen anyone slip in.

What had happened?

A few soldiers stepped forward to take the body, but Iona spun her glaive and pointed it at them. They backed off with a terse word from the [Great General], giving them space.

Nina stepped forward, gently putting the body in the middle of the clearing. Iona was coming to a horrified realization as the impossible pieces of the puzzle came together.

Caved-in skull. Fresh blood dripping from the mace. Nobody else had gone in.

Iona’s vision started to go crimson in fury, but she barely, just barely, held herself together.

Not in front of hostiles. Not in front of outsiders. Investigate, discipline in private. Present a united front.

She didn’t even remember the words she spoke, [Social Lubricant] doing all the heavy lifting for her. Iona trembled in barely-suppressed rage, impossible visions of treachery and backstabbing, cowardice and blasphemy dancing across her vision.

No. Not Nina. It’s impossible.

The Zhao troops clearly sensed that there were about to be issues. They collected the poor boy’s body and vanished with barely a word, making sure to never turn their back on Iona. Serratrix and Sigrun from up high on the valley edge noticed what was going on, the massive spinosaurus taking a break from killing soldiers, and picking a few of the tastier morsels to start chowing down on.

“Explain.” Iona tersely ordered in a word, her knuckles going white as she gripped her glaive.

With halting, stumbling words, Nina did.

“I did it.” She sobbed. “I killed him.”

Iona went apoplectic. Her vision went entirely red, and with a flash of ozone Sigrun was in front of her, grabbing the fist she hadn’t even realized she’d pulled back.

The two fully fledged Valkyries stared at each other a moment before Iona wrenched her arm free.

“Do not raise a hand against a fellow Valkyrie.” Sigrun whispered softly, like an adder hissing. Iona stiffly nodded.

“You.” Sigrun whirled on the kitsune, dry-eyed only because she was cried out. “Explain. Now.

Nina did. Her thinking, her thought process. The ‘scales’ the lives were weighed on. The decision she’d made.

“You can’t just do that!” Iona exploded in rage the moment Nina’s explanation was over. “Our ideals have to mean something! You can’t simply take the expedient route!”

Nina sniffed, but the spark of anger was quick to spread. She’d spent time agonizing over her decision, and was prepared to defend it.

“Really? REALLY? You’d slaughter a nation for one boy because the circumstances were right? You pick and choose almost as much as I did! Where’s ‘defend the meek’ when you’re cutting down people you’ve got 500 levels and an entire third class on, huh?!”

“He requested sanctuary! Protection! Is nothing sacred? Should nothing be protected? ‘Well, it’s a few more lives if I let the raiders go’ is no way to live, let alone executing scared systemless children!” Iona shot back.

She paused a moment, waiting, dreading the divine message. The signal from the goddesses to cut down one who’d defiled a temple.

No such message came from Selene or Lunaris. They weren’t saying a peep.

Iona was secretly relieved. She couldn’t do that, and the request would tear her apart. Perhaps the goddesses knew, and didn’t want to lose their [Paladin] and the investment made over the issue.

Back and forth the two violently argued, neither giving an inch. All the while Sigrun stood with her arms crossed, silently refereeing the argument.

Fenrir landed behind Iona with a roar, sensing his bonded companion’s distress. The sheer presence and fear the wyvern exuded, the violence Nina had seen Fenrir commit now pointed in her direction, made her step back. Serratrix growled deep and low at the wyvern, and the two creatures stared at each other, sail flaring and haunches going up as the two postured.

“Enough.” Sigrun cut Iona off. “Nina, there’s no question that you utterly failed in your duties as a [Squire], regardless of your beliefs.”

The kitsune finally dropped her defiant gaze, hands balled in a fist, as she stared at the ground.

This was it. This was the end. They’re not going to execute me, no, worse, they’re going to leave me here. Abandon me, alone, on the wrong half of the world.

“Dusk, you’re too rigid.” Sigrun’s next words had Nina’s head snapping up, her mouth dropping open in shock. Iona blinked like she couldn’t believe what she was hearing.

“Excuse me?” She asked, incredulously.

“You heard me.” Sigrun said. “You’re an amazing Valkyrie. Your heart is as pure as any gem. You are the best of us in many ways, the ideal that we all strive towards, but you are too rigid. Have you ever wondered why I never told you where you were in the succession? Push come to shove, you’d lead us right off a cliff to uphold your ideals.” Sigrun didn’t hold back any verbal punches. “Don’t get me wrong. Socially, you have no peer. In combat, I’d be hard-pressed to leave a mark. You follow your heart, and you do more good than a dozen of us put together. I’d hoped Nina would be following in your footsteps. I’d take a thousand of you if I could. That’s not the case, and let’s not pretend it is. It sounds like your squire takes a more pragmatic, outcome-oriented approach to things.”

Sigrun punctuated each of her next words with a poke to Iona’s chest.

“That. Is. Not. Wrong.” She said. “It is different. Both of you have your own ideals and desires, how to best see things through. Nina’s way is admittedly rare within the Order Valkyrie, but not unheard of. You all got along! You didn’t have a problem with Voracious, who had a similar outlook. You hung onto her every word when she told you how she got rid of the Nime [Lord]! Same. Thing. Nina is brave and powerful enough to be her own woman, her own Valkyrie, and I think I know why none of the [Vows] she’s tried have taken. They’re wrong for her. She doesn’t believe them in her heart. Nina, tell me true. What are the words that resonate with you? What lies in your heart?”

Nina had thought long and hard on it, and thought she had the answer. The one Iona would hate, but apparently wasn’t so incredibly wrong.

Iona’s gaze was complicated. Sorrow and pain mixed with rage and betrayal.

“You were my daughter.” She whispered.

Nina took a minute to collect her thoughts, all while everyone watched. This wasn’t the carefully planned [Vow] she’d tried, it wasn’t wordsmithed and checked over a dozen times to make sure it was done perfectly.

It came from the heart, as all [Vows] should.

With a thought, her morphic weapon turned into a longsword, the classical weapon for a [Knight]. Nina knelt to Iona, sticking the tip of the sword in the ground. Sigrun moved next to Iona, lending her weight to the moment.

Nina wet her lips, hesitated a moment, then began to speak.

“This is my creed.

I will do what must be done.

I will cut off the head of the snake.

I will balance the scales.

I will never conflate the symptoms of injustice with its source.

I will never turn a blind eye.

I will strike the hands that wield people like knives.

I will not put loyalty before that which is right.

Though blood will stain my hands and fur, it will always be for the greater good.

I will gaze at the greys beyond the black and white.

I will remember that rules and laws do not make right, nor does might.

I will smite the wicked.”

Nina hesitated at the very end.

She’d grown up with Iona. Been formed and molded by Iona’s ideals, both stated and lived. She’d seen how life was, and Iona wasn’t entirely wrong. The endless search, the endless belief towards the greater good was potentially a trap. A road to devastation, paved with good intentions. Moderation, to an extent, was required.

The atrocities she’d commit couldn’t be forgotten either, not unless she wanted to become a monster herself. One that would pit her against her very sisters-in-arms.

"Whenever possible, I will act in such ways to protect the weak, with temperance, valor, and integrity.

I will remember what was sacrificed and atone for what I can."

It was Iona’s turn to cry at the end, her squire’s thoughts and ideals diverging so far from what Iona had tried to teach her.

At last, after years of trying and dozens of failed attempts, Nina got the notification she’d been waiting for, hoping for, dying for.

[*ding!* You have sworn [Nina’s Creed]. Would you like to accept this General Skill? WARNING: Creeds are binding.]

Without hesitation Nina accepted the skill, then she read what it did.

Nina’s Creed: A solemn creed from Nina, in remembrance of Feng Tiazi. +2.5% speed, strength, dexterity, vitality, magic power, magic control, illusion strength, illusion durability, and illusion detail per level when striking at the root of the problem.

Her heart fell early on at the low bonus number displayed. 2.5%? Only 2.5%?

But the more Nina read, the more excited she got. It wasn’t a large percentage over a few stats - the percentage applied to a frankly stunning array of abilities. Somehow, the System knew she was hellbent on taking Mirage for her second element.

Missing her illusions was like missing a limb for Nina, and she was more than ready to class up and regain her mastery.

Her delight at getting the [Creed] at last was clear. Sigrun had a weird look on her face, and cleared her throat.

“In my capacity as the [Grandmaster] of the Order Valkyrie, I would like to formally acknowledge that Nina, squire of Iona, the Dusk, has successfully completed all elements required to be properly acknowledged as a full Valkyrie, one of us. Her acts of bravery are as endless as the stars in the sky, as unbound as the roiling stormcloud up above. One, before all others, is worth noting. In defiance of her Valkyrie and orders, in spite of deadly danger to her life, she navigated a treacherous situation with clear eyes and a calm heart, believing she was sacrificing everything she had for her beliefs. Such an act shows conviction and bravery of the likes rarely seen. Nina, you are a Valkyrie, through and through, and I name you, the Fox. Rise, and join us.”

Nina rose in disbelief. Sigrun grinned at her.

“Sorry I don’t have a pair of wings handy.”

Iona was still upset though. She knew the betrayal wasn’t casual or directed at her, but Nina had violated her fundamental principles. She wanted to scream and rage at her, and was still confused why Sigrun seemed to be taking it all so casually. However, she had enough presence of mind and social graces not to say anything that couldn’t be taken back. Not to say anything that would shatter the now-fragile bond between the two of them.

Sigrun was canny. The leader of the Valkyries, like any organization lasting beyond a single warlord-like leader, had to have a good head on her shoulders. Needed to know organizations, and more importantly, people. She knew what sort of blow her beloved Dusk Valkyrie had just taken, and that they’d all need time to heal and try to reform relations.

“Now, I know this is all a bit sudden. Dusk, I believe sending you off to the School of Sorcery and Spellcraft was one of the best things that could happen to you, and I’d like to continue the ‘tradition’, so to speak, with Fox, first of the newest generation of Valkyries.”

Nina’s ears went up then down.

Even if by some miracle Sigrun got her admittance to the School, she knew her formal schooling and education was so poor she couldn’t even start an education there. She could read and write no problem, and knew her basic numbers. However, a true, formal education was both past her ability to learn, and Iona’s ability to teach. It saddened the kitsune a bit, the door to wizardry like Elaine could perform forever closed to her, but it was what it was. There was no sense in crying over the impossible.

“Now, I believe the School would be all wrong for you, but what do you say about going to Nippon-Koku for a spell? I have some friends in the Eventide Establishment, and I think your talents would grow by leaps and bounds there, on top of being close to home. What do you say?”

Nina looked at Sigrun in confusion.

“Wait. The Eventide Establishment exists!?

=======================================

Nina woke up in the world of her soul, her head still spinning with how fast everything had happened. 24 hours ago she’d been campaigning in the Han, learning from the fabled [Grandmaster] of the Order, prepared for however much longer they’d be staying in the war-torn country, grappling with her own [Oath].

How things had changed!

Nina gazed along the streets of an unknown Exterreri city, the population hustling around. Everyone had a pouch on their hips in various colors, and each ‘person’ in the world of her soul was indicative of a potential outcome she could choose - if she could properly choose.

A [Baker] was right next to where Nina had stepped into her world, the woman humming merrily as she used phoenix flames to cook. A pair of foxfires hanging over her shoulders indicated a Fire or Inferno elemental choice. Her pouch was dark green, promising fantastical abilities as a [Baker] simply if Nina was able to rob her. The kitsune’s short time with Auri baking had offered great things - if she wanted it.

A [Guard] with a solid sphere of Earth over one shoulder had a light green pouch, but they tended to move in patrols of multiples, just like in real life.

“Why does my world have to be so annoying.” Nina grumbled to herself. “Why can’t I just pray at an altar or pick a book or something easy?

Finding a mark was only half the challenge in Nina’s world. The other part was actually managing to obtain the class. The bigger, richer, and more important a class she wanted was, the more guarded they were, the more effort Nina would have to put into getting it.

Grumbling to herself, Nina decided to stroll along for a few minutes, seeing what there was to see, before deciding on her class. A [Senator] in royal purple robes was bustled along on a palanquin, each of her guards with a subtly different [Bodyguard] class. In a twist Nina found hilarious, the [Senator’s] pouch was pink, while the [Bodyguards] were orange to green.

Nina’s entire world fuzzed, the bustling streets replaced by a great feasting hall, dozens of Valkyries cheering and toasting with servants rustling around, an entire castle full of life and classes to pick. Almost immediately, her world fuzzed back to the cityscape.

Nina jumped and held a hand over her beating heart.

“What was that!?” She said.

Her guide popped out of a dark alley and shrugged.

“We’re changin’.” She said. “On a deep level. Not quite all the way there yet, but we’re changin’ so hard the System’s recognizin’ it.”

Nina was disturbed at the idea. She didn’t mind the new soulscape, but the thought that something might go wrong in her soul while she was in it…

“Let’s go to the Valkyries.” She said, not needing to say anything more.

Her guide, herself, her other half grabbed her hand, and the two girls sprinted through the city streets, laughing at life, shouting obscenities at the guards, and making their way to a place only her guide knew.

Nina stared at the options, licking her lips in envy at the power of one of the options, a blue class with roiling thunderclouds over the shoulder and across the armor. A class inspired by Teruo, a powerful warrior without compare.

But no, that wasn’t what she wanted. The two of them eyed a powerful Valkyrie, winged helmet and all, a gale trapped in a sphere over one shoulder, a dark green pouch on her belt. Storms rumbled across her shining plate armor, inspired by the Guardian, the phoenix, and the wyvern. Phoenix flames and foxfire occasionally danced around a well-used and loved mace.

She eyed up the place they were at, the seeds of an idea coming together.

Nina knew what she wanted. Now she had to earn it.

“Alright, here’s the plan…” She whispered to her guide.

Nina awoke as [The Fox Valkyrie - Storm] - [Sly Trickster - Mirage].

Comments

Anonymous

What was the eventide establishment again?

Anonymous

Holy shit

Captdeth

53m

Anonymous

I think Night would approve

Syrahl

Holy hell this was a good chapter. Nina went from being a wierd little tagalong, straight to being one of my favourite characters. This chapter was an amazing pay-off for Nina's whole arc, and I can't wait to see more of her in action.

Anonymous

Ehh what is this? The chapter seems to switch POV between Nina and Iona randomly throughout the chapter. I can't think of a single other chapter in BTDEM where this happens without at least a page break and for good reason. This makes it so awkward to read.

Pavlo Vasin

Thanks for the chapter! Such a question. Does the fact that she still needs to get her class increase the value of the class, or does it just show how psychologically ready she is to get that class, etc?

Gore17

Agreed. Talking to Night more would have been helpful, I feel. Eh, they can talk later.

Syrahl

It seems like POV shifts happen less than you think, to the point where a single page break before "Back and forth the two violently argued, neither giving an inch. All the while Sigrun stood with her arms crossed, silently refereeing the argument." Would fix the issue as you described it. The PoV is a bit wierd, its a messy scene and that wont change, but we only get Iona's thoughts and Nina's actions and emotes before that point, and vice versa afterwards.

Kota

Well, Sigrun is right, at least partly. Nina did what she believed was right, no matter the consequences for herself, certain it would cost her everything she holds dear, even her life. In itself, that is extremely admirable, and will probably make for a fantastic knight. On the other hand, I don't think that was Iona's point. The point was that the ideals Nina does believe in and is prepared to sacrifice everything for are - in Iona's opinion - utterly unworthy of a knight dedicated to protecting the weak gainst the strong. And I can see her point - can there ever be a justification for deliberately killing the innocent who are no immediate threat to anyone? I have great sympathy for Iona's 'no', although Nina seems to think differently. One thing to add: It seems at least part of Iona somewhat understands - if she believed Nina's actions here made her "part of the problem", wouldn't her [Vow] compel her to kill the poor girl, even without the godesses' input? "I will seek out and slay those who would prey on those weaker than themselves." At least she doesn't put Nina into that category...

Anonymous

I’ll be short and sweet. This is the best chapter of BtDEM. Full stop.

Kota

Sigrun's 'too rigid' is maybe not wrong, but perhaps simplistic. While it's true that Iona's inflexibility causes no end of problems, it's also one of her greatest strengths when it makes her utterly unyielding in the face of heartbreak and horror, of mortal peril and impossible choices. She never bends, under any circumstances, and that is part of what makes her so amazing a character - her greatest strength is, at the same time, her greatest weakness. I have to say, I'm just a sucker for that kind of writing.

Gore17

And you'll notice that Sigrun has many, many praises for her and a wish for more of her as a result. But also indicates that as a result, Iona is only ever going to end up leader of the Valkyries is if she's the only one left, and it's causing problems here, unable accept another, equally valid alternative.

Anonymous

She's similar to Elaine in that and that's why they match. They have ideal that aren't common of fully realistic. Elaine is less extreme but very similar in a lot of ways.

Phsteven

Nina doesn’t “prey on those weaker than herself” she chose to take the action that would result in the fewest deaths. I believe that Elaine has rubbed off on her here because she is not thinking in the terms of “who is strong” and “who is weak”. She is thinking in the terms of “why is this happening, and what can I do to stop it?”. She would rather kill the underlying cause of the mass amounts of death and be hated and possibly killed instead of continuing to massacre an army of peasants who have no say in the matter.

Gore17

The disagreements here seem to between a Deontologist(Iona), a Virtue Ethicist(Sigrun) and a Consequentalist(Nina).

dtape467

well, that came out of nowhere

Anonymous

Did not see that coming

Kota

@PotatoJackie Very true. I get the feeling Elaine is a little better at noticing the complexities in the world, the shades of gray Nina struggles so much with. Elaine's heart breaks every time she has to let one person die so that a hundred others can live, while Iona will mow down a thousand people to save one person without even noticing they are almost as innocent as the one she's trying to save. Both are frequently forced to make very ugly choices, but I get the feeling Iona loses much less sleep over it. Maybe she doesn't have the same level of constant doubt and second-guessing herself...

edgedancer

Update: Just read this again a d I am even more disturbed by Nina than before. The speed at which she goes from murdering a kid (let's not sugarcoat what she did) to justifying it, to feeling proud about it, then being DELIGHTED that murdering a child made her a valkyrie is truly psychopath behavior and I truly hope she doesn't ever get to reconcile with Elaine and Iona since she somehow didnt learn any of their lessons. She's worried about becoming a monster? She already is one. Original comment: Yeah.... taking an oath that is going to compel you to deliberately kill babies on occasion is pretty fucked up. It is basically completely incompatible with Iona and Elaine and also incredibly naive. Killing this kid isn't going to magically cause the instability in the country to go away. She didn't cut off the head of the snake. She just killed a kid to stop this one battle. Also in hwr first act she has already violated a core tenant of her oath. In no fucking way is a 5 year old child the SOURCE of the injustice going on here. What about the two generals and ADULT leaders that are actually perpetuating this situation. That part of the oath should really be dropped whe theedited version of this comes out.

Simon Hoerder

Thanks for the chapter, it was terrific. My respect to Nina!

edgedancer

No respect to Nina from me. Taking an oath to protect the weak with the caveat that you can kill those you are supposed to be protecting when it's convenient isn't worthy of respect. It's just cowardice. By all rights Nina should be dead right now and the fact she felt satisfaction and pride just after murdering a Child is extremely fucked up. I really hope she doesn't just get to re-integrate with Iona and Elaine.

edgedancer

Okay l, replying to the reply here. So let's take a real world example. With Nina's Ideals an invaded nation should always immediately capitulate as it will cause the least deaths. So Ukraine should just roll over to Russia right? Since that would cause less deaths? No way. Her oath is shit and Iona is right to disown her and I don't see how it's compatible with being any kind of protector at all.

Thatagui

The oath is interesting, because the root causes are rarely simply individuals, but entire structures of power. Often the root of the problem are design flaws(features) of a civilization, so will it compel her towards statecraft?

NoReTr3aT

More like Nina would kill Putin instead of trying to hold the line.

Isley

good chappie

Simon Hoerder

I don't see a caveat centred on convenience. The caveat is about the greater good, the balancing of the scales. The question, why this one child should be worth the lives of so many others, some of whom seem to be quite young and green instead of hardened warriors is a fair one. Not an easy one or one that does have any good answers unless the great generals are taken out of the equation but a fair one. And she had no way of taking the great generals out of the equation. Also, it was Iona who promised to protect that child, not Nina. Nina got dragged into it by Iona and the twin goddesses. The goddesses were extremely callous when they sent Iona on a suicide mission and Iona took Fenrir and Nina along (maybe knowing that it is a suicide mission) without giving them a real choice. Only Fenrir had a potential way out. Finally, I don't see anything where she's taking satisfaction from the kill or taking pride in having killed a child. That she's being acknowledged as a Valkyrie afterwards and given decent class choices -- she can be proud of that but it was clear she had earned that before. That she's taking pride in cutting a bloody civil war a little shorter that is something she can indeed be proud of. Iona is not wrong to protect the child but she's overlooking that the way to hell is paved in good intentions. Sooner or later Nina will face the same dilemma but here I believe she's made a hard but justifiable and respectable decision.

TroubleFait

Iona seems to have forgotten that those soldiers had little say in the matter, they never chose to kill nor to die. You're definitely right that Elaine rubbed on Nina, in that Elaine was always more pragmatic thanks to her training as a commando in Remus. Nina also lived in the slums, so she's not too enamored with the proper order of society, and those sacred ideals Iona believes in.

TroubleFait

As long as he lived in the Han empire, his very existence would create countless battles. Maybe once all his competitors were killed, he would have been the best Emperor of the century and ushered an age of peace and prosperity. Maybe his life really was worth a thousand conscripted boys. Nina couldn't know that, she was in the thick of things. It's really easy to cast judgements on someone when you're comfortably sitting in your house. Meanwhile Nina is in the middle of a war.

TroubleFait

That's an interesting idea! Maybe in the future she'll be working as an intern under Night.

Benjamin Smith

From context, it seems to be a ninja guild, basically. The kitsune [Poisoner] who tried to attack Iona during the Gladiator's Gauntlet was a member of the Establishment. She was on the Nippon-Koku team because the team leader "couldn't say no" to a request from her employers.

TroubleFait

As expected, the three positions taken by Iona, Sigrun and Nina are reflected among the readership. Those who defend principles, those who can consider all approaches, and those who consider consequences only.

edgedancer

He isnt the one creating the battles. I cannot stress this enough, in no way is a CHILD responsible for the greedy actions of the adults that are actually making plays for power. If you think differently then I suggest you really think about your morals as my position should not be controversial I any way.

edgedancer

Okay. So what if it was 100 babies in the same situation. The math still checks out. Now she just needs to murder 100 babies instead of 1 kid. Easy right? Nah. Nina is a psychopath for thinking that is the correct solution. The real solution would be killing the generals and if she really held to her ideal she would have tried to do it anyway even if she didn't stand a chance. Instead she took the easy way out that also conveniently saved herself. She also forgets about him pretty damn quickly once she is raised as a valkyrie.

edgedancer

The soldiers always have a choice to, you know, not murder people. Tonnes of people have made that same decision in the real world when faced with dire consequences. The people on the attack in this battle are not "innocent". Just following orders is not an excuse. Doing it under duress does not absolve you of the crime when you have the option to resist or flee or just not do it. They might not be "guilty" but they sure as he'll aren't "innocent" either. The only innocent person in this situation was the 5 year old system less kid who was murdered by a self righteous psychopath.

Olly

Hoo boy, I anticipate this chapter sparking a lot of conversation. Personally, I appreciate that Nina made her own choice, taking in all of the circumstances and not simply accepting what she was "supposed" to do. I'm not sure if that makes her a good person, but she is a good character informed by what she has experienced and what she has been taught. She does not share Iona's ideals, just like Elaine does not share Artemis' or Night's no matter how much she respects them, and Amber does not share Elaine's. I hope that in time, Iona and Nina can reconcile in some manner.

Benjamin Smith

A tough call, here. Not something I think I could do, but Nina has lived a hard life and seen a lot of terrible things. I understand why she would take the pragmatic option. It's a bit fucked up, sure, but so is a political system that places more value on the lives of certain people than others. On one hand, the kid was a scared, innocent child, but on the other, he was the legal representative of a large and powerful (and decidedly NOT innocent) military force. Which takes precedence? This is one of the reasons hereditary aristocracy is a bad idea.

Simon Hoerder

Nope. What if's like that are useless. With 100 babies you'd have a different situation, a different calculus. They'd have been more difficult to keep alive for so long even without the building getting destroyed. Stray arrows, bolts and spells would have reduced the number already. Even if, by some miracle, the attacking armies had been defeated or driven off -- how would they have kept the babies alive without sufficient help to feed them, to change their diapers, to keep them warm? And where were those people before the attack? 100 babies would have either been a lot better guarded or dead even before the armies arrived. Both Iona and Nina would've thought differently about the situation. Sigrun also might have intervened more directly instead of staying at the edge until after the battle. The twin goddesses might not have called Iona in the first place or might have invested more power into a real miracle. We can speculate as much as we want about the morality of such a what if but Selkie didn't write that scenario so we're lacking a basis to actually discuss it in any meaningful way.

Benjamin Smith

He wasn't just a child, though. He was the Emperor, and being the Emperor makes you a military target. It's messed up, but that's the nature of their political system.

Kota

No. A psychopath would feel nothing or something positive about what they've done, while Nina is crushed by guilt. And no, the fact that she's proud about ascending to the rank of Valykrie or happy about getting a good class does not make her proud or happy about murdering a child. Even if one lead - at least in part - to the other, that does not make them the same. And remember, it's part of her Creed to "atone for what I can" - she is well aware what she's done (and will do) is horrible, and she's only willing to do it because she thinks the alternative is even worse. That's not being blasé about what she's doing, she's not indifferent to the harm she causes, she's doing it despite knowing and feeling how terrible it is, because she thinks it's necessary. I'm with you in thinking that she's wrong in that, and it may be true various parts of her Creed contradict each other unless she interprets it very creatively, and yes, her Creed seems really dangerous and will frequently push her in a really bad direction - but a "psychopath"? No. I don't get that at all.

Anonymous

I can't take that as true he considered himself the emperor, he was raised as a potential future emperor, he knew or was advised that his own generals were coming to kill him he never had a chance to reclaim the empire and both he and those with him knew it. You can say that he's to young to take responsibility but he was in a position of responsibility with knowledge and advisors, from the perspective of a leader the best cause of action would be sacrifice yourself to gain some protection for your people or as an individual to flee. They chose to ask for sanctuary, asking for sanctuary is not just asking the god's to protect you it's asking the gods and churches to protect the innocent and uninvolved from violence. In my mind the best case would have been the kid renouncing his claim and seeking asylum elsewhere.

Anonymous

My take on Nina is also a bit different does she consider the kid innocent? yes but she also considers the rust spotted teen she'd just smashed the head in innocent as well. She feels the weight of those she kills and she doesn't kill for fun or power but to reduce the suffering of others. She was put in a situation with only two options either: fight to her last breath killing (relatively) innocent soldiers until both her, Iona, and the young emperor die because Iona believes she should. Or killing/letting the young emperor die to stop the conflict now before more lives are sacrificed welcoming either: divine retribution, her own mentor killing her, or the loss of the only family she has. It's only because Sigrun was their and understood that it is a grey moral issue that she didn't get abandoned in Han.

jacob

they weren't soldiers they were conscripts they said in the story most of them were farmers until they were conscripted into a war that was going to be prolonged as long as the child lived i am not saying its the right choice but it is one and a phsycopath wouldn't have felt guilt and lets not forget that Iona helped in a war to kill an oath bound healer because she thought it would save more lives in the long run

edgedancer

The Red Army's conscripts didn't have a say in the matter either yet go ask eastern Europe if they were all innocent little farm boys. I'm sorry. But a literal child > soldiers in my view.

edgedancer

This isn't an issue with hereditary aristocracy. You think this wouldn't happen in democracies and republics? It literally happens to them all the time. America was a democracy and they had a bloody and very famous Civil War anyway. I am pretty disgusted by the amount of people here writing off the the murder of a child as justified (not you, but elsewhere) because he happened to be born to nobility.

edgedancer

You are jumping through a lot of hoops to justify child murder. There are a lot of people like you reading the story apparently so I am going to stop trying to agrue that MURDERING A CHILD is not the right call. And getting actively rewarded for it is even more fucked up.

Tyler Machado

Anybody complaining probably doesn't like Ice and Fire. Also, that was a horrifying part of medieval society. You killed all the heirs otherwise your kids would be in a brutal war against their kids. Some would even die willingly to prevent this. Sons in the era of the Ottaman empire would willingly let themselves get strangled to let the older brother in. Selkie should have put a warning though. That was one of the most grimdark chapters since Elaine was captured by the adventurers. Also think he was a little light on Elaine's reaction. I doubt she would be ok with it. Selkie if you're reading this, probably should weigh in if possible.

edgedancer

I would never trust Nina with protecting anything ever again after this. You could never know if she is going to decide to just kill the people she is supposed to be protecting. It could even be an entire town next time using her logic. Think of a town of 200 under attack by 1000 starving people. Nina could just up and decide that since 200<1000 and both sides are "innocent" (the attackers clearly fucking aren't innocent but they are being "forced" to attack just like the conscripts here) she should just kill the 200 townsfolk to the last child since that would save the most lives.

edgedancer

Yeah there should be no coming back from this in terms of their relationship. Elaine and Iona ever "accepting" Nina now would be a massive betrayal of their characters up to this point.

TroubleFait

You are jumping through a lot of hoops to claim that Nina will kill hundreds of children. Seriously, this is ridiculous. If 1000 starving people attacked a village of 200, the solution obviously isn't to kill those 200 people, do you really think Nina would do that? Changing the numbers involved wildly does not make your position stronger, it only exposes its weakness.

edgedancer

Yes she absolutely would do that using the logic she displayed in this chapter. I am exposing the weakness of her views. They only look fine when you see the value of 1 vs 1000 but when you keep the same mathematical "logic" of saving the most innocent lives then she would absolutely kill 200 so save a thousand. Hells she would kill 499 to save 500. She is deciding who is and isn't innocent. Only one person was actually innocent here and that was the CHILD under the aegis of divine sanctuary. The generals and conscripts could have just not attacked and waited. Or exiled him. Instead they chose murder and so did Nina.

Anonymous

Civil wars still happen, but intentionally killing or kidnapping the children of political rivals so that can't later try to claim their inheritance is very rare in the modern world. It was absolutely the norm for most of human history though.

Benjamin Smith

I don't know about that, Edgedancer. Elaine accepted Night despite the people he's killed, and didn't run away when Arachne implied there might be circumstances in which letting a dragon rampage in other countries would be good for Exterri. She seems able to accept that other people have different moral outlooks.

Anonymous

You're trying to put this into trolley problem terms, and then make broad, simple statements about which option Nina would/should take, but the reason trolley problems are fundamentally flawed is that the real world is never that simple. If 1000 starving people are trying to murder 200 for their food, the actual correct solution to that problem is almost certainly some combination of "make them share" and "find more food." And if you really think Nina wouldn't try to do exactly that I question your reading comprehension. And yes, making them share might involve smashing a few skulls. I think even Iona might do that, if she felt the 200 were unjustly hoarding food. If there was always a perfectly morally pure solution to every problem, Valkyries wouldn't be so good at killing things.

edgedancer

I am putting it in those terms because that is exactly what Nina did. I am not seeing why this is so hard to understand.

Markus

Elaine have previously been quite accepting that some people need to die. She just can't ever agree to do it and will always stand in the way for it. But having her friend murdering other have never made her stop being friends with them.

Anonymous

Because Nina was making a judgement about one particular situation, not a universal statement about how to weigh one life vs X number of others. Stripping out all the context and saying "Nina would murder 499 people to save 500" is just dishonest.

Anonymous

Is there a reason Iona didn't pick up the kid and fly away on Fenrir?

edgedancer

The sanctuary from the gods was stopping attacks from coming through on the flanks. So probably figured his best chance was staying there. And she was probably right. I imagine her and Sigrun would have been able to kill the generals and then the armies would have shattered since the leaders were the only ones keeping up morale I imagine.

edgedancer

Read her oath again please. It is absolutely about weighing lives and how much each is worth. Exactly like the trolly problem.

edgedancer

The child dieing isn't going to stop the war. Now there is no direct blood heir to the throne. What do you think happens next? Everyone goes home, job well done? Or do you think the war continues now that it is just a bunch of warlords trying to grab power?

Joshua Little

Excellently done. Thanks for the chapter.

Anonymous

No, her oath is about finding the root causes of suffering and addressing the problem there, rather than just treating symptoms. At no point does it imply she'll simply tally up lives and pick whatever looks like the larger pile. Sure, you can imagine situations where she might do that if you want, but simplified hypotheticals are just not that meaningful a tool for evaluating a philosophy meant to operate in messy reality. Honestly, her outlook is very similar to Night's and Artemis's. And like them I think Nina will mostly be doing things that are pretty uncontroversial. If you think killing a child means she's crossed a moral event horizon that means you can never respect her again, fair enough. That's pretty reasonable. But a: You should feel the same way about Night, unless you honestly think he's never done something similarly ruthless, and b: you can feel that way without framing it as if Nina has suddenly become some kind of heartless absolutist who will murder anyone at the drop of a hat whenever it's convenient to her.

Tiffany Miller

His family was though. Unless he renounced any claim he'd always be a threat. Also who makes a child an emperor? That's on the people around him

Tiffany Miller

There's no Quin claimant to the throne which means one whole faction is now out of the war.

Tiffany Miller

Child was inherited nobility good riddance. The harm he'd cause as leader is far worse

Dion Crump

This is one of the things I love the most and hate the most about this series. The death of innocence. This war arc reminds me of a quote from M*A*S*H “War is war and Hell is Hell, at least there are no innocent bystanders in Hell”

Anonymous

Thanks Selkie, this was a very good chapter. It's great to see Nina growing and finding her own way through life. The shear weight and thought that went into her decisions and actions is very well done and most certainly develops her character in a interesting direction.

Gore17

Nina isn't a protector, primarily. She Creed calls her to destroy the root causes, the wicked, the people who sacrifice others. As pointed out, she'd go after Putin. And maybe a child does matter more then a single soldier. What about 10? 100? 1000? And what about all the knockoff effects of the war, all the innocents would be harmed by the war continuing?

Gore17

The faction these conscripts belong to have their own Emperor and Royal Family. Each of the factions did.

Gore17

Hell, one of the first things Artemis did in the series was kill a kid. Or was it a young teen? They were young either way, and completely helpless.

Gore17

I mean, if the death of 100 babies would save the lives of 1000 others, it arguably is the correct choice. Now, IRL, I'd have to wonder how such a situation came about and *why* they have to die, but in the straight, simplified philosophical argument you're presenting, the answer is yes.

Wizard Tim

Iona might not like it but if the Order had Fox against the goblins, the Goblin King would've died far faster and the Order might not have been crippled. I feel like Nina made the right choice. Slaughtering endless waves of desperate youths to save the life of a single Emperor even if he had requested sanctuary. That's the one flaw in Iona I've noted since she first met Fenrir. She's always been far too harsh and unforgiving. I sincerely hope she has a LONG talk with Elaine about this once she's calmed down. And, yeah, Nina may have been her daughter, but kids grow up and she should be proud her child found her own path.

Gore17

Edgedancer, it's called Consequentialism, where morality comes from the consequences. It's a valid ethical theory/framework. It's not one you obviously subscribe to, and that's fine, but please don't suggest that those who resonate with it are psychopaths.

Wizard Tim

Time, I think. They had already gotten there and was set up to prevent escape, if the Emperor even poked a head out, he'd have been dead in an instant. Iona wasn't a target until she made it clear she was there to protect the child.

Anonymous

I don’t think she’s a clown she just sees the world in black and white right and wrong when in reality it isn’t and she can’t deal with that properly.

Shil Modi

Imo, this chapter has seen Nina turn into a monster. I wouldn't be surprised if Iona has to fight and kill her later. Nina thinks that Iona's inflexibility is a form of cowardice; I would argue that killing a helpless child in the name of the “greater good” is a much greater form of cowardice. Utilitarianism doesn't work in reality, because innocence is not a numerical value. It cannot be seen through a binary lens. This will end in Nina making judgements that are downright evil by any sane standards but entirely consistent with her morals; I would argue that she already has. She will have to make judgements without full information and cause more suffering by acting than not. People will swear revenge when their loved ones are killed and might even blame their enemies, causing further strife. I also understand that Sigrun thought she was being pragmatic by knighting Nina, but I think that she just fatally poisoned the Valkyries' mission.

Gore17

And Elaine has noted that she's had to make judgements without full information and hope that by doing so she's doing more good then not. Utilitarianism *does* work IRL, people just don't understand it. Though I think/believe Nina is more under a general Consequentalism heading(of which Utilitarianism is but a type of). And do you think that Iona's actions won't do the same thing? We've seen a person who hates the Valkyries and hope(d?) to track them down and kill them for their actions. All moral systems, if held too closely, will fall apart in extremis. That's why having multiple different viewpoints is *useful*.

TroubleFait

Hell, she even threatened to kill Elaine when she thought she was a changeling. Artemis could be ruthless.

TroubleFait (edited)

Comment edits

2023-11-25 08:07:17 She should be proud, maybe in a perfect world (a world that doesn't need Nina to do what she did). When your daughter betrays everything you stand for, can you be proud of her?
2023-11-25 07:16:18 She should be proud, maybe in a perfect world (a world that doesn't need Nina to do what she did). When your daughter betrays everything you stand for, can you be proud of her, even if you should?

She should be proud, maybe in a perfect world (a world that doesn't need Nina to do what she did). When your daughter betrays everything you stand for, can you be proud of her, even if you should?

Shil Modi

I would argue that Nina is an act utilitarian, as she undertook an act of personal discretion—killing the child—in order to create the greatest good for the greatest number. The main issue with this form of morality is that there is very little that you know for absolute sure. You could assassinate some general who is evil and instead cause a decade of strife and war. And sure, the same can be said about everybody else, but they don't hinge their entire moral philosophy on the consequences of their actions. Also, there is pretty much no way to genuinely atone for murder. If you cut off someone's limb, you can try to get them a prosthetic. If you been down someone's house, you can build them a new one. You cannot, in most cases, bring someone back to life. The part of her oath that will try to stop her from becoming a monster is pretty much totally ineffective.

Gore17

But you can make the best possible decision you can make with the info you have, which is no different from any other moral/ethical decision. Does it meaningfully change if you assassinate that person because you believe that has the best chances of positive consequences, versus because you believe that he deserves to die for his crimes? And "atonement" has many, many different meanings and interpretations. By yours, you cannot. By others, you can. Edit: Also, as Sigrun noted, this is not the first Valkyrie to have such beliefs, and the one they noted was one of the Valkyries who sacrificed their life at the pass that nearly wiped them out.

Gore17

Maybe. But is it fair to hate a child for an unjust system? Is it correct to say he'd cause far worse harm? No effective leader in history has been completely kind and just, but there are those that have tried their best. Perhaps he would have done so himself one day, or could have been guided onto that path.

Gore17

Not a clown. She has her own moral framework, and in many ways it goods and admirable. What has happened here is that her framework and that of Nina's have run into a situation where they heavily diverge, in a way that has the other framework being actively bad/immoral/evil. It happens. No moral system will ever be complete and perfect. There will always be situations where one produces better results then the other.

Cirvante

Yup, best examples are Night and Artemis. The latter murdered a young teenager in the streets after buying him as a slave. There was also the scene where Night and Acquisition discussed into how many pieces they should cut the assassins that were paid to kill Dawn for her social reforms. And Iona is a bit of a hypocrite, considering she told Elaine that she would have killed her for being an immortality-granting healer, had she not saved her life before. Killing one innocent person to stop a potential war is the exact same thinking that led to Nina's creed. The two aren't so dissimilar after all.

Cirvante

Iona: How could you kill an innocent to end a war? Also Iona: I would kill an immortality-granting healer to prevent a war.

Simon Hoerder

Tiffany, in principle I agree on the inheritance part, not on the killing part. Seizing of assets and changing laws to disregard titles is completely sufficient. If the former nobles then want to lead a "glamarous" live on the front pages of trashy gazettes so be it. If they want to go and do honest work instead that's fine as well. Not sure whether it would work for a world like BtDEM though -- depends on how supportive the system would be of other leadership models.

Simon Hoerder

Gore17: Yupp, the trolley problem is quite difficult to engineer without leaving space for caveats and in this case it only works because Nina doesn't have more influence and all the influential people are dead set in their ways.

Anonymous

exactly- self indefinable hypocrisy is an issue iona has and should have, at this point, actively worked on.

Anonymous

Becoming someone who can grant immortality is a choice, being born into royalty is not, that's not hypocrisy at all

Anonymous

Maybe Nina's change in character was lost somewhere in the time skip but this creed seemed to come out of nowhere. Before the time skip it seemed that a lot of her development was based around being able to trust people in authority after she spent so long being abused as a child, to have her creed tied to the time she betrayed the trust of a child seems very out of character especially because killing Feng Tiazi here seems to go directly against Nina's creed. It says "I will never conflate the symptoms of injustice with its source. I will never turn a blind eye. I will strike the hands that wield people like knives." But in killing the Feng Tiazi that is exactly what she did. Feng took no action that could be seen as evil unless you see simply being born into royalty as evil, which Nina shouldn't because of that fact that she spent a lot of her early life being mistreated just for how she was born. If she was following that creed she would need to kill the people attempting to kill an innocent child rather that give them what they want.

Tyler Machado

If the Grand Master hadn't been there, Iona would have killed Nina in a fit of betrayed rage. Like Nina's thinking or not, at least she did think. Iona would have just let her rage do the talking. Yes, Artemis not only killed the teen, she tried to have Elaine do it for the experience. I imagine that heir would have had the same done for him maybe with a high level prisoner so he can get a good class. If he had to train before his system even unlocked, it must be hell after. Poor kid, seen as a chess piece at home as well. That scene said nothing about him having someone he loved. He didn't even seem to upset about his parents and brothers being killed, just that he was emperor. Emotion was probably beaten or ridiculed out of him. His own father would probably kill him if he was to much of a disappointment.

conkerer

What an interesting twist! I have a bit of an issue though with Sigrun not sending her to school, especially since she apparently knows someone that had a similar Oath. The main issue with the oath is that she doesn't automatically know how to fix the problems she sees. She needs an understanding of social theory and governance to understand how people work, a big base of general knowledge to understand what problems exist, and access to a big base of records of what was tried before to fix similar problems. If anything, her despair at having a lack of enough basic knowledge to enter the school is very concerning that she might go off and kill half the people in a slum as they turn to crime before realizing that an approach isn't fixing anything.

Cirvante

Was it really a choice for Elaine who got flung into a future where it was illegal? Iona told her that she might have killed her if Elaine hadn't saved her life. What about a healer in a warzone who is classing up to save more people? Or someone like Elaine who classed up somewhere else and is just traveling through? What about an old healer who gets forced at sword-point to class up so a bunch of movers and shakers can be young again? What if they are getting old and just want to live? Iona automatically assumed that any healer above level 256 knew what they were getting into and deserved to die to avoid thousands of deaths. That's not very far removed from Nina's way of thinking. And that makes her a hypocrite.

Cirvante

The peasant soldiers attacking the tabernacle are a symptom of injustice and not the cause in her eyes. We only saw snippets of her three years as a squire in an active warzone, but there were some subtle signs of her mindset shifting in that direction. We saw her killing peasant soldiers who were actually farmers. There was that story of the crying child being killed by her mother to avoid detection. You have to realize that Nina is probably deeply traumatized from everything she has seen and experienced at this point. She just wants the senseless killing to stop. And she made her creed AFTER killing the child emperor. It was specifically mentioned that she was just winging it like Elaine once did rather then carefully craft it like Iona. And restriction skills are often open to interpretation to a certain degree. Nina will have to figure out the letter and the spirit of her creed and how it applies to her. But the fact that her classes make her a stealth speedster, her creed makes her strike at the source of the problems and she's about to join the Eventide Establishment for training, sets her up to become a Valkyrie Assassin in the future. She will always be boosted by her creed when going after the real bad guys.

Cirvante

She will send her to the Eventide Establishment in Nippon-Koku, basically ninja school. I'm assuming that they will teach her more than just assassination.

edgedancer

When your superior says "we are protecting this person" and then you kill that person. A lot of militaries or similar organisation's would in fact kick you out or execute you as that is basically treason. What Nina did would be like someone in the secret service murdering the President of the USA because they don't like their politics. So I don't hold that against Iona. O really don't think someone like that should be in an organization all about protecting people like the Valkyries are supposed to be. But Sigrun is also desperate for new recruits so I understand where she is coming from too. I fully expect this to not go well for all involved.

Anonymous

In her defense, she was also considering smuggling the healer out to immortal lands, if she could. But yes, the fact that she CAN act pragmatically, but only when it's in accordance with whatever the law says, is definitely a flaw in Iona's philosophy.

Anonymous

Really, the one Nina should be learning from is Night. He's got both the assassination and the social sciences bases covered.

TroubleFait

She is from a slum. She knows that turning to crime isn't always a choice, don't worry about that.

conkerer

That's not what I'm worried about, it's her going and assasinating some corrupt guards and the mayor, and then lynching a few crime bosses, and wondering why the city is now literal anarchy

Anonymous

Iona seems incredibly hypocritical. She would kill an immortal healer in cold blood to stop a war but not an emperor?

Anonymous

I just wanted to say I really appreciate the edit re-release. I did read ahead (except for the very last interlude), and this is going to remind me to grab it right before new things come out

Shoto

And murdering thousands of innocent people like Iona was doing was right?? No!!! There is no right answer in a situation like this, there is no way to make a right judgment because everyone is wrong. I know that the option of killing a child is complex, but in this way Nina saved all the people who were in the army, many of whom were not by choice. And of course she was happy when Sigrun saved her and promoted her to Valkyrie, after all IONA WAS GOING TO KILL HER, Iona was going to punch her with all her strength, if it weren't for Sigrun Nina would have died, of course she is happy when she realizes that she is alive, and that her actions are valid. Nina is tired, suffocated by guilt, she must have killed hundreds of people in this war that you yourself would judge as innocent, all of this at the behest of Iona, or forced by the situation. War is shit, understand this, no one wins in a war, only the one who loses less, the situations that each person goes through are extremely stressful. Nina is not a psychopath, and I really hope you stop calling her such a thing, understand what a word means, and not shoot ignorance.

Shoto

I think Nina would hunt some beast or monster to feed these people. Why do you always assume that Nina is a monster?? why are these 1000 people trying to kill 200?? Are these 200 hiding a lot of food simply out of greed or are they also starving?? so there are 1200 people hungry?? Situations are not just black and white, you have to analyze them. So the 200 people hide a lot of food?? Nina comes in and breaks down the walls that protect the food and tries to distribute it equally. Even Iona would do that. So are 1200 people hungry? So you have to look for food or a new source of food for these people. But no, Nina wouldn't go to the massacre.

Tobias Hammeken Arboe

That's always been one of her character-flaws tho, haven't it? She has an *incredibly* rigid world view, and while Elaine is driven by her Oath to heal, made when she was a kid, even at times where she wishes she couldn't; for Iona it feels almost the opposite, eg. that even without her Oath she'd stand in the line of damage even if it meant her life.

Anonymous

This is a litrpg world. He literally took a class named [Emperor]. He didn’t have to.

Anonymous

From 497: “He was [Emperor of the Qin]. Only without the class, because he was too young.” He did not select the class, because he wasn’t even old enough to have unlocked his system. And even if he had, how much choice can you really say a 6yo raised from birth to be Emperor had in the matter?

MrMegaPussyPlayer .

I know it's the wrong chapter for this discussion, but on a related note: Elaine's class up is coming up next. I know it won't happen, for various reasons, but here is what I hope for. A custom black healer class. Maybe named [Dawn of the modern medicine] Which would tie neatly her moniker Dawn into it. It would be a shame if she would lose that in a class name. It fits so neatly to Dusk. Even if she stays the Dawn Sentinal. Something I don't see in the long run, though. For a while, yes. Maybe to the next immortal war. Anyway. That black class, but as a reset to 8 (and immediately class up to 32). Which would, at first, tank her stats, but a black class is so much more powerful than the dark green she has, so she should catch up at or slightly above level 32. Reason is, that low levels are easier to get, than high ones, and high stats are cool. MC needs to be OP. There is no such thing as too OP. Also, it should stay at celestial. The eyes are cool, and losing [the stars never fade] would suck. It would mean she would become mortal again. Even if she gains another way of immortality, that basically would mean she would need to deal with two curses. I'd also like her to get another black class. Triple black is cool. And hopefully she gains more STR. Currently she is totally outclassed.

Anonymous

I understand Nina's reasoning and I get that Iona's a bit thickheaded at times, but while killing this kid might defuse this situation, I'm not sure it'll do much of anything to end the war. There's just too many players involved, and custody of the child emperor was just going to be a political tool to begin with--the real generals and pretenders calling the shots will just continue on without him.

nicolas

One less faction, one less reason for the war, it's not the end but it's a necessary step

Anonymous

I'm kinda concerned how down everyone is with child murder for the possibility that maybe the fighting will end faster