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“Why we’re here?” Awarthril repeated, tapping her lips thoughtfully. “Well, we’ve all got our own reasons, but one word’s enough to explain it. Shimagu.” She said, looking at me expectantly.

I blinked, tilting my head. Was that supposed to mean something?

“Do you not have Shimagu where you’re from?” Aegion asked.

“No, I’ve never heard of them before.” I said, wondering if this was the name of some creature I was familiar with, but simply didn’t know the word for.

“Ooof, you should know about them. If you don’t, you’re a ripe target.” Awarthril said.

“Let me tell you all about them!” Serondes jumped in with his musical voice.

Wait, right, Sound element that he sang with. Of course he’d have an amazing voice. He settled down into a ‘teaching’ pose, and began lecturing, covering everything from the basics up.

“Shimagu are body snatchers. They’re made out of ooze, and all have the element. While they can’t take over the brain, or use the host’s skills, they’re more than capable of seizing complete control over a body. Warriors, and large, powerful monsters are a favorite target of theirs, while mages are practically useless, and healers are actively avoided. Warriors, Laborers, and other physically-inclined classes tend to have powerful passives, focusing on the body. Shimagu are able to use those buffs when they take over a host, since they are innate, intrinsic. Rangers and some Artisans are considered mid-tier targets, while mages, like myself, are terrible targets, because the host’s skills are unusable.”

He paused for a moment, letting me absorb that. Short version - they got the body, not the skills. Which also meant…

“Can the person being hijacked get free? Or is it like, getting taken over kills the host? Can the host communicate at all, or do anything?”

I was thinking about Ned, and the changeling that had taken over. I was wondering if they were the same thing? It didn’t sound like it.

“Good questions! I’m the perfect person to ask. Yes, they can get freed, although it’s rare. The Shimagu needs to voluntarily give up control, or a healer needs to be involved. It’s part of why they’re so nasty to deal with. It’s the same person, the same “shell”, which makes analytical skills almost worthless. Any Shimagu that wants to take over someone intelligent has skills to drain mana and cripple regeneration, which will often double as buff skills to improve the body they’re in. It makes them stronger than they look, since there are often two sets of skills and abilities improving a single body. Now, technically, the host can still use skills, but it’ll only last as long as they still have mana. No mana, no skills, no communication or fighting back.” Serondes explained.

“It’s why they don’t like healers or mages.” Aegion jumped in with that appealing intensity, and Serondes glared at him for the interruption. “Healers and Mages usually have skills that can hit at the Shimagu - if they’re willing to throw, say, a spike of lava through their body - and have mana pools large enough that they don’t drain quickly. Gives them plenty of time to fight back, or just self-destruct, instead of being taken over. Also, since the bodies aren’t buffed, and they have low physical stats? They could take over a warrior a quarter of the level, and have a better host.”

Ha! I wasn’t a target for bodyjacking! For once, I was at the bottom of the priority list! Not that it mattered, I was still leaning towards “go home”, because what else was I going to do? Join the elves on their crusade? Fat chance they’d want me.

“Yeah, they tend to kill healers they find. They count as a parasite, and every healer worth their salt can handle parasites.” Awarthril happily added in, flicking her hair in a way that was oh-so-appealing. It didn’t stop her comment from bursting my bubble. “It’s why we knew you were fine, and not a Shimagu trying to infiltrate us. Healers are able to, more or less, instantly kill a Shimagu they find, usually at a range. It’s horribly unfair to them. Hence them getting rid of most healers. Except for a few sympathizers, who’ve joined them willingly.

Awarthril’s tone of voice made it entirely clear what she thought of people willing “joining” the Shimagu. It also implied other people willingly joined them, giving them access to mages - and healers! - if the Shimagu weren’t mages themselves. I was curious - I wanted to know more, like could a Shimagu survive without a body? It also started a train of thought - if I got caught by Shimagu, would it be worth bluffing a surrender to save my life? Could I escape later? Could - but before my questions could come out, Serondes started talking again.

“By the way, what were you doing here? I’d love to know your story.” Serondes asked, staring at me with his fantastic eyes.

“Well, it all started about a year ago, when I got some bad news…” I started off.

I kept it simple. Formorians, big fight, victory. That was a hit - “Almost as good as an elf!” Aegion had commented.

Exploring the new lands, meeting the dwarves, getting caught up in the fight between the dragon and the guardians.

“Why are you acting like that?” Aegion asked as I tried to mime the dragon, causing a flush to crawl up my cheeks at the rebuke.

“Because I’ve heard they hear their name when they’re called.” I mumbled to the ground.

Awarthril snorted.

“That’s ridiculous. Pretend it’s true for a moment. How many people are constantly saying their name? How many conversations are they hearing? To them it’d just be a non-stop stream of ‘dragon, dragon, dragon’ in their ears.”

I visibly winced at that.

“Drive anyone nuts. If they came out and tried to wreck stuff anytime their name was said, they’d all be dead or the world would be a flaming wreck.”

Uh - that was a really good point. I still wasn’t sure what was right, or who was correct over the whole thing.

“Candy?” Aegion randomly asked, tossing me something that looked like a lollipop with no stick. I eyed it, remembering the drink.

“Sure, I guess.” I held it in my hands, figuring that the longer I talked, the longer I could stall on trying Aegion’s newest thing.

“Anyways, from there we fell into the mines, although one of the dwarves didn’t make it…”

I continued to regale my tale, from being trapped down in the mine, fighting the orcs, meeting the Khazad dwarves, implants, gentle imprisonment, and escape.

I glanced down at the egg I was holding. I skipped Lun’Kat’s lair, just telling them that I’d found it while escaping the Inevitable Shluggoth from the Below Levels.

“You have no idea what’s inside the egg?” Awarthril asked, and I shook my head.

“Mind if I take a look?” Serondes asked, offering up a hand.

With a small degree of reluctance, I handed the egg over, the three elves huddling around it with me, poking and prodding at it.

“I have no idea.” Aegion said after a minute.

“I don’t recognize it either.” Awarthril said a few minutes of poking, prodding, and picking it up later. “I know all the medium and high-quality eggs though. I’m sorry Elaine, I think you might have a bit of a dud here.”

Serondes remained fascinated.

“Well, there’s a chance that we could discover something entirely new.” He said. “Elaine did mention that she’d found it deep underground, in an area that seemed volcanic. A burning crimson egg, found deep in a dormant volcano? Even if it’s low tier, no Lava creature is weak. Elaine, I would be delighted to help you hatch the egg, and see what emerges.”

Serondes might be somewhat biased with his element, and his conclusion was based on faulty data - I hadn’t found it in a volcanic tunnel, I’d found it in a dragon’s lair. I also bristled at Awarthril’s assertion that she knew ALL the high-quality eggs. Something in the place of honor in a dragon’s lair?

It did support my theory a bit that I’d maybe gotten a red dragon’s egg. Or maybe a gold dragon’s egg. I had no idea what dragons were like here! Maybe red scales, with gold trimming between the scales, kinda like the egg? That’d look so cool.

Either way, I’d be shocked if elves knew what a dragon’s egg looked like. Then again, they looked somewhat normal, so…

I was getting horribly distracted and off-topic.

“That’s be wonderful!” I said, taking the egg back. “What do you suggest? I’ve just been trying to keep it warm for now.”

Aegion interrupted.

“That’s all very good and all, but could we hear the end of your tale? How did you escape from the Below Levels? How’d you end up here?”

“Learning how to properly look after an egg isn’t fast or easy.” Awarthril mentioned. “Might as well finish your story.”

Making stuff up was hard. I just skipped over it.

“Well, I finally managed to find tunnels that led up, and I got out.” I said. “Nothing too exciting. I figured I’d head north, then east, trying to find my way back home. It’s in the dead zone, do you know where that is?” I asked.

I got a frown back.

“Not sure where the ‘dead zone’ is, but that doesn’t sound pleasant. We might know it under a different name, what’s it like?” Aegion asked.

“Well, it feels all sorts of bad when you’re in it, but I didn’t notice until I’d left. It’s also an area of reduced experience gain, or so the dwarves claimed.” I awkwardly explained. “No idea what causes it.”

The elves looked at each other.

“Sounds like the Poor Experience Zone.” Serondes said. “We know where that is, yeah. We’re even vaguely, sort of heading that way. Come with us for a time.”

“Serondes. Can I talk with you?” Awarthril said, in that oh-too-sweet tone I knew too well.

Even when angry her voice was simply magical.

The three elves retreated slightly, and the most bizarre argument I’d ever seen erupted. They were animated, hands being thrown all over the place and mouths twisted in yells, but the whole thing occurred in complete silence, as Kiyaya came over, begging for scratches.

I happily obliged.

“Who’s a good girl?” I asked as I scratched her stomach with my one free hand. With her size, giving her a good scratch was a full-body experience. “Oh yes you are!” I said, to her happy wriggling on the ground.

I needed to figure out a better way to carry this egg around. Being permanently down one hand hadn’t been too hard when I was just flying, but I wasn’t always flying.

Cordamo glided over on his pale wings, and as he got closer I realized he wasn’t just white - he was more like an albino. He landed next to me, and cautiously nuzzled my left arm.

I wasn’t much for snakes. I just flat-out didn’t like them. Something deep and primal inside of me recoiled, yelled that I should keep a distance from the danger-noodle. Sure, I was a powerful healer, but that was a bit too abstract of a concept for my lizard brain to handle.

However, deadly snake - couatl - or not, if it wanted to attack, it would. A bit of distance wouldn’t help.

I steeled myself, then when that didn’t work great, I adamantiumed myself. That worked, and I tentatively stopped scratching Kiyaya to stroke Cordamo’s head. Cat-like, he worked himself under my hand, getting it to rub just the right spots.

Then he poked his nose forward, tapping the egg I was holding under one arm with his nose twice. A question.

“You want the egg?” I asked. Cordamo was smarter than he looked - not hard - and nodded his head twice, opening his jaw wide.

“You want to eat it?” I asked, more than a bit skeptical. He nodded furiously, wings flapping in excitement.

“Heck no!” I said, pulling the egg in closer. “My egg.”

My indignation overcame my fear somewhat, and I lightly booped him. Not enough to do anything, just let my displeasure known.

[*ding!* You’ve unlocked the General Skill [Egg Incubation]! Would you like to replace a general skill with it? Y/N]

Egg Incubation: You defend your egg as aggressively as a velociraptor, and sit on it as cluelessly as a chicken. Serious intervention is required. Please take this skill, and help the young one out of her shell. Increased egg incubation knowledge per level.

On one hand, I wanted to keep [Lost and Found] in case I misplaced the egg. On the other, [Egg Incubation] seemed like a great skill for hatching the egg. There was a benefit to having a skill specifically for what I wanted, and this whole egg hatching business was going to be hard enough as-is. I had no idea what I was doing.

Also, did the System just leak that it was a girl!? I wanted to do a fun gender reveal party, preferably without burning down thousands of acres of woodland.

Alright magic, work for me! I took the skill. I shifted how I was holding the egg slightly, adjusting my grip slightly as the skill took hold, nudging me a hair.

[*ding!* [Egg Incubation] leveled up! 1->2]

Having just had the experience with [Lost and Found], I turned off my notifications for that one skill, to not get spammed horribly. I’d keep leveling up, keep improving, but I didn’t need to know every single detail of the low level skill slowly increasing.

“Hey Elaine! Mind if we ask you a few questions?” Awarthril asked, making me jump a hair. I hadn’t seen or heard her approach.

“No, not at all, shoot!” I asked.

“Well, first of all, are you interested in traveling with us for a time?”

“I mean, if you’re heading in the direction of home, yeah, sure I am!” I said, dreams of spending more time with the lovely woman dancing through my head.

“Ok, what are your class qualities? And how many stat points do you have, before and after buffs?” She asked. I could see Serondes and Aegion listening in, but not crowding me. Between Kiyaya, Cordamo, and Awarthril, I appreciated it.

However, judging someone by class quality and stats was a novel way of looking at it. I’d never been asked that before. I suppose it was a solid way of gauging someone’s strength, especially with how little level was starting to matter as I continued on my journey.

Like take Ned. I’d been the same level as him, yet totally blew him out of the water stat-wise. It wasn’t even close. I guess the elves were wise to that, and asked the right questions.

“Dark green and light green on my classes.” I said. “I got to build my own class on the dark green one, and the light green one seemed awfully close to dark green with the stats it gave.”

The elves’s eyes flickered to Serondes, and Aegion slid in closer.

“Dark green? That’s amazing! Doing a restart cycle before you get your third class is suboptimal, but it sounds like you pulled it off! You go!” He said, offering me a high-five which I took.

“Thanks! What do you mean by reset cycle though?” I asked.

Serondes joined in, and I was the center of attention. I could only hope that all the elves made me the center of attention fo-

Focus.

I’d been around incredibly good-looking people all the time in Remus, with appearance skills being popular, but I’d never been so distracted in my life. Elves were just unfair. They were all super nice to boot.

“Reset cycles refers to getting all three classes up to level 768, or in some cases 1024, then resetting the classes one at a time back to level 8, and starting over again from there. The increased stats from the other classes greatly improves the offered classes when resetting, which often results in a jump in class quality. Then, once the reset class has been maxed out again at 768 or 1024, the process can be repeated with the next class, then the third. Once all three classes have gone through this process, we call it a single cycle.” Serondes helpfully explained.

“We’re all on our initial cycle.” Awarthril explained. “It’s why we’re out hunting Shimagu. The local minotaurs asked the Tympestshard Council for help, and they let us, and a few other ambitious elves know about the problem.”

She shrugged.

“Not everyone goes out to improve the world. However, there aren’t too many ways to get enough experience to leap up forward like this. Kiyaya needs all the levels she can get, isn’t that right?” She said the last part to her wolf, who nuzzled up to her.

Ok, a ton to unpack there. Reset cycles? I suppose if a species had unlimited time, they’d figure out the best way to get all the levels - or, thinking about it, the more important thing, all the stats. Plus it let them play around with different elements, see what clicked, see what resonated with them. Heck, someone could completely switch over from a Warrior to a Mage! Sure, it’d take them ages, but the elves were immortal. They had all the time in the world to pull it off.

Also -

“Why level 768?” I asked. It didn’t make sense from what I knew of the leveling structure.

“There’s a class-up there.” Serondes explained.

Oookay. I had no reason to disbelieve him, it just sounded weird.

“Well, I’m on what you’d call the initial cycle.” I said.

Awarthril blinked at that.

“That’s incredibly good! Good job! You might only need to do 18 cycles total to get the highest quality class with that head start!” She enthused, then got slightly downcast.

“Not that you’re likely to live long enough to do eighteen cycles.”

I opened my mouth, hesitated, and Aegion cut in.

“It's excellent for your initial cycle! I wish I’d managed to hit dark green on my first 256.” Aegion added in.

“Not to be a downer, but she did mention she grew up in the Low Experience Zone.” Serondes chimed in. “It’s impressive, don’t get me wrong, but that played a hard-to-replicate part. I’d guess more like 24 or 25 cycles total. I’ve got two yellows and a light green for my first cycle.”

“Still impressive. You’ve got what, about 200k stat points total?” Aegion said, running a finger down Cordamo’s spine, who’d flown back up to join him.

I checked my stats, wincing a bit.

“No, more like 140k” I said, quickly tallying them up.

“Low dark green. Class levels are probably a bit out of balance to boot.” Serondes analyzed.

These elves were smart, on top of being well-educated, knowledgeable, and everything else. Cripes it was unfair.

“Well,” I teased, “That’s all pre-buffs. I am a healer, after all, so I’m a bit better there.”

Time to bring out the big guns. If this didn’t impress them, I was going to dig a hole, crawl into it, and die from a bad case of “massive inferiority complex.”

“I have roughly 360k each of magic power and control when I’m healing.”

I dropped that bombshell with a triumphant smile, which only grew wider as I got exactly the reaction I was hoping for.

Stunned amazement.

Comments

sqeesqad

Damn, doing that many cycles must take forever and a half

Vladerag

I see someone was inspired by "Vigor Mortis." Slime parasites op, now hopping dimensions, please nerf. Also, for someone who doesn't want to be kidnapped and used, our healer sure has a love of telling people just how useful she would be locked in a cage to heal people. Admittedly, I like that she isn't super paranoid like some protags, but I do think her meetings with Illea have had a bad influence on her. Come to think of it, high strength healers of all stripes generally lose their sense of caution, don't they? I suppose once you know that you are basically immune to death unless a mythical god-beast descends from the celestial realm to personally hunt you down you don't really have a good reason to be cautious.

Anonymous

I am curious why elves haven’t already taken over the world or most of it in the future. If they don’t die, shouldn’t most of the elves reach levels where they can just one shoot destroy entire countries ? They have the fastest and easiest levelling according to Night and unlimited time without any downsides. How are they not ruling most of the continent already?

Anonymous

Wait, why did the elf revise the cycle estimate for a top tier class up when taking the dead zone into account? Shouldn't it take less cycles in the dead zone where experience is lower so you get more achievements per level?

DaShoe

huh, they start over and over again to get the best possible class with infinite time. I guess she could do that as well now she got immortality.

Sekander

The only problem would be she can’t do it with her healer class or she would likely loose her immortality skill.

Jeppe Fiig

I think that might actually be their problem, they level so easy that they get offered bad classes.

Anonymous

Yeerks, Puppet Masters, and Selphids are all a thing. No need to look far for inspiration on that end. :D

Anonymous

I believe because it bumped up the quality of class she got, she had more experiences per "exp" she would have earned and got a higher quality class as a result, if she was leveling normally she wouldnt have got it as soon.

M van Dongen

Lmao. They'll hijack her to mass area heal slimy suspects.

Gamerkitt3nz

Good chappy. I'm hype for more

Vladerag

eh, she probably *can't* heal them. If they are sentient parasites, they would be incapable of living without their hosts and the presence of "deserters" implies that coexistence is possible. Elaine's Oath would likely restrict her to simply removing the parasites at most, or quite possibly even prevent her treating them at all.

Jeanean

These Cycles give a whole new perspective to the timeskip into Iona's time. Once she reaches there, Elaine might end up with a very different set of Classes then she currently has. I don't doubt that, with her Oath basically killing her if she were to stop being a healer, that she would stop being a healer, but we will never know what is going to happen.

ShotoGun

Can you get a class changed, that was personally granted by gods? I have doubts.

Thenais

I dropped that bombshell with a triumphant smile -> that never gets old 😁

Han Pol

now lets hope that the elves don't take a dim view on oath skills.

Cryptic_Reality

OMG! The description of that egg incubation skill! I about died laughing when I read that. XD Also, I'm so glad to hear about the cycling thing. I've always wondered what would happen with her classes if there wasn't a way to improve them longterm somehow.

Joshua Little

Thanks for the chapter.

Jeanean

Well, at the very least I doubt they would take Oaths as easily as humans would. A human generally lives 100-200 years. An Oath like Elaines makes them very good at one thing and compensates for a huge difference in level and Class quality, but on the other hand, it also restricts them greatly. Elf's on the other hand can just spend a few hundred years cycling their Classes to achieve similar stats at the same level, but without any of the restrictions. Until they reached the point where they have a black class from level 8 and know exactly what they want to do for the rest of eternity, I doubt an Elf would take an Oath. But if they do, at that point things would become slightly rediculous. Imagine Elaine if her Oath stats were her normal stats. over 1.5 million Power and control whiule healing. At not even level 500 and only two classes XD At that point, she can probably even heal governments from corruption XD

Jeanean

I realized it only just now, but the whole Cycling thing puts the reason why people don't like Immortals in Iona's time into a WHOLE NEW perspective. Even their lowest stats must be in the millions. I wouldn't be surprised if they are just as powerful as Lun'kat, while also much, much smaller. I don't think its wrong in any way to describe a magic based Immortal as a reusable nuclear bomb on two legs.

Jeanean

Remus policies at their finest: City guard: "Sorry, you are a mage. Please discharge all your mana before entering the city." Immortal: "Which kingdom did you say I am supposed to erradicate?"

Addicted_Reader

Did the system know that a magical gender reveal party would melt the planet?

Cirvante

Thank you, Selkie. It's been bothering me so much that people don't munchkin enough with resets. Hearing that your elves embrace munchkinry and powergaming as a species fills my heart with joy. Now if only Destruction would take a [Channel]-restricting oath ...

Alexey Gladkich

I really doubt that they are in anyway near Lun'Kat. We know that 2000 is achievable but it is a great honor while 3000 is probably extremely rare. Getting 4000 is almost impossible. Guardians have a very hard time getting any levels past 3500.

tibbish

Yeah this here. Some regard it only as "cheating" or "numbers go up BS" but if you were stuck in the same circumstances you'd be trying to find AAALLLL the cheats, exploits, and ways to abuse the system. Because lets face it life aint' fair and you need every advantage you can get. Especially if you're nearly dying all the time.

Anonymous

QUESTION!!!! IF you reset your class, will you need all new experiences to level it up when cycling. For example would healing dwarves in one class cycle be worth the same experience in a second cyle?

Anonymous

Poor Elaine, she thought she was people... until she meets actual people. Lol then her caution about getting used again goes out the window in a desperate attempt to prove she is relevant.

Alexey Gladkich

Probably a lot less in the second cycle as it isn't a novelty. Unless it is done in a completely different way. Regardless, upgrading a low level class when your other two are lvl 768 should be very quick and simple.

Anonymous

Yeah, but wouldn't that defeat the purpose? I mean how can you get a higher tier class if you don't really have much time to do a lot of new stuff? If doing the same thing gives you even less xp the 2nd, 3rd, or 18th time you could end up doing an entire cycle for little to no real gain. Seems like it would be a pain in the ass. and would be more of a delusion of growth rather than actual growth.

Alexey Gladkich

@Mat that's why the Elves say it would take 18-25 full cycles for Elaine to reach Black quality. System rewards primarily achievements, novelties, and high stakes situations. All of these are rare and/or dangerous. Getting rare stuff is up to luck and not reliable while dangerous routes aren't recommended if you want to live long - given infinite lifespan would you take short route of getting black quality with 1 cycle with 99.9% chance of death or taking the slow route of safe grinding of 30 cycles with 10% chance of death? Which is more reasonable?

Jeanean

It's not a matter of reachin max level, but having max quality classes starting from level 8 and taking the longterm option of new high-quality-but-low-level skills over worse-but-already-high-level skills. And lets be honest, I wouldn't be surprised if even without any Cycling Elains lowest stats were to reach somewhere in the 10.000 range at around level 3000. In case you havent noticed, Stats increase exponentialy to the level since every Class-up increases statgain per level. Sure, a million in the lowest stat might be a bit too high of an estimate for someone who is fully focused on pure magic or pure physical stats, but an immortal with more balanced stats, like Elain shouldn't have a problem getting even their lowest into the 100.000 range. Also, I didn't mean that they would be just as powerful as Lun'kat in the sense of a direct confrontation, but in terms of how much destruction they can bring. Also, I don't think that my assumption of immortals getting close to Lun'kat in power is completely unfounded. You have to remember that someones final power is based on a large number of growing factors. 1. Level growth 2. Stat per level growth 3. Class quality growth 4. Skill level growth 5. Skill quality growth All of these are factors that growth roughly linearly, but you need to remember that they are all multiplicative with each other, resulting in pretty extreme exponential growth. And then, there are also Skills like Elaines Oath that put another multiplicator into the mix.

Jeanean

Just for fun, I calculated Elains Power and Control when both of her Classes reach level 2000. (This calculation excludes further Class-ups, increases in Class quality, her third Class, and free stat points.) At that point, both her Power and control would already reach 209.880. By the way, when her Oath reaches the same level, it would give her a 10.000% bonus, giving her 21.197.880 Power and control while Healing.

Anonymous

That is a good point. Lol i have said it before, but wow did selkie crate a complicated system! I wonder if dragons cycle or just go straight on through? It would be weird for a dragon to be near black with red or orange classes.

Jeanean

Depends on your Class. If its a Class that rewards you for doing new stuff, like the butterfly mystic, then you wouldn't get as much experience. If your first Class was focused on healing humans, and the new one is focused on healing Dwarves, you would probably get more experience for healing dwarves with the new Class then with the old one.

Jeanean

There is one thing I have been wondering about. If someone resets their primary Class, and their secondary is a few levels lower, what happens to the maxed out general skills? Get their levels reduced "permanently" with all the physical effects of losing a skill or when Elaine loses levels in her oath? Or do they just get adjusted to the level of the now highest-level Class? Or do they stay at their current level but don't level any further until another Class managed to catch up in terms of level? Depending on the situation,it could make a pretty big diffrence!

Alexey Gladkich

@Jeanean that's exactly the point that stats increase bonus is exponential in both quality and class-up tier. So the difference between individuals who have Black quality from the start and Black from lvl 1000 is negligible as long as they reach around lvl 2000 or so. Not necessarily all dragons are but surely Lun'Kat has Black quality class and lvl close to 4000. Add additional enormous racial bonuses Dragons have over other races... and Elves will be nowhere near Lun'Kat with levels like 2000 or 3000. Restrictive skills like [Oaths] indeed throw the equation into chaos but how many take powerful [Oath] skills and how many of them reach over 3500? Edit: on the other hand the stats boost skills of highest quality should provide boost not that far off - say, by a factor of 2 less. So not that big of a difference.

Anonymous

They are probably frozen where they are until one of the classes catches up to them, kind of like how people with companions get frozen at the level they are at until the companion reaches the same level.

Alexey Gladkich

@Mat You see, Dragons get tons of racial stats and I assume just being a Dragon guarantees some system rewards. So even starter classes should be comparatively high tier.

Jeanean

The difference in stats between starting with black quality at level 8 and getting it at the 1000 Class up might seem small. But it definitely isn't. In addition, there is one thing you are forgetting. Even if highest quality skills aren't far off from an Oath skill like Elaines, which I highly doubt, Someone like Elaine could also get that kind of Skill in addition to the Oath skill. And looking at the rest of the system, I wouldn't be surprised if two such Skills would work multiplicative, espiecially when one is a Class skill and theother a General skill. I imagine that Selkie didn't give her that kind of Skill simply because it would have escalated her healing far too quickly. Just as a comparison, right now, she is "not even" level 500, and her healing is so powerfull that she needs exceptional cicumstances, like healing a dragon, to not get the job done with a single touch.

Jeanean

@Selkie There were already several mentions of Classes having statboosting skills of their own (like Elaines oath). If Elaine were to get one of those, how would it interact with the Oath skill? additive or multiplicative?

Alexey Gladkich

@Jeanean it is small when looking forward. Just like nobody really cares for the bonus stats Elaine got from Shadow Healer - it got lesser than bonus from a single level. With the comparison of character getting black at 1000 vs 1 for 2000 lvl character. Assume 1000 and 1500 class tiers got double the stats each time. Then the difference is roughly 15% more which isn't significant by any means. At lvl 4000 nobody will care. Stat boosts definitely not work multiplicatively - not sure if it is even possible to pick more than a single stat boosting skill without one merging into another. Elaine's Oath is powerful but the ridiculous control and power boosts are kinda useless for most purposes. Disbalance with other stats makes it very inefficient stat distribution.

Anonymous

Interesting tangent; Elain's main class is NOT "low" Dark Green. When she was building it, she exchanged more stats that were available for way more Skill power. How many stats per level did she lose to immortality and the expensive skills she picked? LOTS!

evyatar

Damn if they get frozen that is just BROKEN and op… imagine someone focuses on exp gain skills like elaine LEARNING skill? At level 768? If she resets her classes and keep the learning skill high? One series heal… bum its worth seven times the exp from one skill… they there are several and they are additive? Good! If they multiply the effect? Way better than merely be considered good

Alexey Gladkich

@Evyatar when Elves discussed cycling they meant to reset one class and bring it back to max. Full cycle is when each class underwent the reset. So character level remains 768 the whole time. It isn't worthwhile resetting all three together as resetting even the second one results in diminished returns as then stats are much lower when one of the classes is at lvl 1.

Anthony P.

I’d imagine additive unless it explicitly states that it boosts boosts.

Alexey Gladkich

In general, skills are mergeable. If two skills can add multiplicative stat boost over each other then so can a single skill, i.e., add stat bonus times square the number of skill level. I don't think there is such skill.

Jeanean

@Anthony P. The reason I'm asking is that there are A LOT of multiplicative boosts in this system, so I wouldn't be surprised at one more appearing. @Alexey Gladkich In general, its true that skills are mergeable. However, there are two situations were I don't think a merge would happen. The first is a more general situation that could happen to most people. One Class is a combat mage with a Skill that boosts Power/Control during combat. The other is a healing Class that gives a similar bonus when healing. Aside from a situation where you heal during combat, there is very little in common between those skills to justify a merge. The second situation applies to people with Oath skills in particular. Thanks to the nature of Oath skills, the essence of what they represent, merging them with other skills, and thus CHANGING the skill doesn't seem like something that should be possible. The only way an Oath-skill should be able to change is by making an additional, non-contradictory Oath. First Oath: When I fight, I fight allways to the death of either me or my opponent. Additional Oath: I will only fight when (insert condition)

Jeanean

@Alexey Gladkich evyatar makes actually a good point in my opinion. I'm pretty sure that it was explained that experience boost skills were multiplicative. Lets assume someone has three different exp boost skills. If the skills get frozen at their max-level, it might actually be a good idea to bring the first Class to the highes possible level, and the exp-boost skills with it, before you start Cycling. Here is some Math: Three boost skills at level 700: 7*7*7= 343 times more experience. Three boost skills at level 1000: 10*10*10= 1000 times more experience. Three boost skills at level 1500: 15*15*15= 3375 times more experience. The point is, since the skills would be frozen at their maximum level, you would only need to reach level 1500 on your 0'th Cycle, and any subsequent cycles would be 10 times faster. Sure, your very first time might take 10 times longer, but after, where others go through 20 Cycles, you go through 200.

Alexey Gladkich

@Jeanean thus far I haven't seen skills that stack with multiplicative bonuses - not a single one confirmed. If you refer to [Sentinel's Superiority] - it simply does what it says, I wouldn't call it "stacking with multiplicative bonuses" and the bonus is fixed 25% - it can be replicated with skill improvement. Also, the fact some skills cannot merge means nothing. Two mergeable skills that add 1% strength per level - would perfect merging make 2% per level +0.01% per level square? No.

Joseph (T3mmie)

uh oh. She shouldn't be giving away this much. I'm just going to assume they have a charm spell they are using or something

Alexey Gladkich

@Jenean at no point it was confirmed that XP boost were multiplicative. Elaine conjectured two scenarios where it was additive or multiplicative but never confirmed either one. I am fairly certain that the XP boosts are additive. Effectively, each XP boost skill grants more than fixed boost per level bonus as it helps itself to level up. Multiple XP boost skills simply increase the bonus and the conditions under which the bonus is applied. Edit: you miss lots of points. Even without XP boosting skills each cycle except initial one is much faster simply because two other high level skills greatly help it with huge stat boost.

Jeanean

@Alexey Gladkich Without imput from Selkie we wont know of course, but I'm relatively sure that in one of the chapters where Elain talked with Artemis about her school, they also talked about the use of exp-boosting skills like Learning. In that situation, I think it was mentioned that exp boosts are applied multiplicatively, at least to some degree. I think something like that was also mentioned back when she was in Ranger academy. And I honestly can't remember what [Sentinel's Superiority] does beside making her better at Sentinel stuff. I don't know what right or wrong without Selkies confirmation, but my main argument is that there are a lot of muliplicative bonuses in this this causing some pretty extreme exponential growth, so I wouldn't be surprised to see Skills whose effects are multiplicative with one another.

Jeanean

@Cirvante While the basic idea is good, I don't think there would be any effective Oaths Destruction could take. His channeling is already restrictive enough on its own. It would make it for him very difficult to do anything, or if its something like "I will kill all my enemies with a single spell" then there would be a low, but still to high risk that somehow, someone survives because they happen to have a suitable Class. (An emergency Teleport for example that they can only use once a year or something like that.) The reason Night could take an Oath Skill that restrains him during the day is, I believe, because he loses access to the system during that time, which means the Oath skill is deactivated as well.

Alexey Gladkich

@Jeanean no, at no point was it implied that XP boosters are multiplicative. That they somehow stack, yes, it was seen experimentally that [Training] gained a lot more levels due to [Learning] and surely it stacks with [Teaching] in similar way. But nothing about "multiplicative" as they cannot measure it properly. They don't know how much XP they gain nor how much XP is needed for leveling. How would they even begin to measure it? Elaine's huge growth is also attributed to multiple high-risk situations she was in.

Alexey Gladkich

There is no Charm spell in BTDEM or any mind control magic. She would notice emotion-manipulating auras and be on guard. She's is just so damn horny from the gorgeous and nice Elves. No magic was needed to charm her. There are skills that help with charming people but they guide user rather than change thoughts of targets.

Fervent Fiend

as hard as it is to refute that comment... she was still thirsty for the woman that wanted to eat her. No shame Elaine.

Cirvante

He could take an oath that restricts time channeling, minimum and maximum, then he could restrict sleeping (has to stay awake anyway), eating (depends on his skills, he wasn't stuffing himself constantly before the Earthquake), talking (writing and sign language still work) and most importantly restrict [Channel] to destructive spells. No healing, defensive or utility magic. He could even call it 'Oath of Destruction' and eventually merge it with [Channel]. Basically formulate the oath in a way that barely inconveniences him in the way he operates while massively boosting his channeled spells.

Matt DiMeo

I don't understand what the system said that leaked it was a girl?

Imef

Audience: "Noooo! You can't just repeat the same mistake that got you imprisoned last time!!!" Elaine: *Hums the melody of sexual healing* (since she's a horny healer)

Anonymous

The past 2 chapters have been a bit slow I hope things pick up again from the next one.