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Doctor Who 8x7 “Kill the Moon” FULL REACTION (Patreon)

Published:
2021-04-21 23:20:56
Edited:
2021-04-22 03:52:59
Imported:
2021-10

Content

I’m not sure if this episode was genius or sneaky! Maybe both. What do you think????

🌚🌚🌚🌚🌚

pCloud LINK: https://u.pcloud.link/publink/show?code=XZ4HTDXZ84tvaEPSytHHkeLJtuoldSMClxiX

Google Drive LINK: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1xhd2Tx-Jh_m1cZLy71vdzdtMOxob05SO/view?usp=drivesdk

Files

Comments

Henry from CO

So we reached this episode. I really liked it until the reveal at the end, sigh. However I also enjoyed it because of the turn it took with Clara having an absolute meltdown telling the Doctor to "go a long way away". It was quite a surprise at the time but looking back you could see all the signs leading to this showdown. And if anything it made the episode so much better after the egg thing. Still so weird they went in that direction.

Evan!!

I quite like this one. Some people think "the moon is an egg" is probably straining suspension of disbelief but honestly if Doctor Who can't do weird shit like that, what's the point. The weird pro-choice/pro-life subtext here is truly bizarre and probably the part I like least about it, but the conversations happening and the character interactions are all really good in my eyes and the final scene between the Doctor and Clara is just absolutely awesome. It's so interesting to see the Doctor and Clara interpret the Doctor's actions in different ways and to think about where the fault lies (though, imo, it's completely obvious Clara is correct here). I like seeing the show critique parts of the Doctor's personality that have always bothered me and while they sort of needed to create a more abrasive and careless Doctor to do it, I think it really works. I've always been a little wary about the weird power dynamics between the Doctor and his companion, especially whenever it gets romantic and that's being explored here. Same with the Doctor's unwillingness to step in during real historical tragedy. It's interesting stuff. Edit: Really good post-episode discussion here.

Evan!!

A thing about the abortion topic: apparently abortion is not as big of an issue in the UK as it is in the US and the abortion analogue was completely unintentional AND the writer is pro-choice but like...... I can't believe that lmao.

Elle

Not my favorite episode and you hit the nail on why: the abortion metaphor did not work with the pregnant moon situation. Wildly different stakes and scale. And I think you're right to wonder if there's a sneaky message in there by the male writer. Hm. BUT. That final scene with Clara and the Doctor. By far one of my favorite scenes with 12 and Clara. Jenna Coleman's acting is so good. The way she chokes up always makes me choke up too. I firmly believe she's the best actress to play a companion. And you're right that no companion has been this angry with the Doctor. I love that Clara respects herself enough in this situation to stand up to the Doctor and call him out on his choices. And I love the Doctor's genuine confusion at her outburst, like he truly did not see anything wrong in putting her in that situation, until she laid it out for him and told him in no uncertain terms that "you were super shitty to me, and this is why. BYE."

Amy Chlebus

I understand how you feel about the doctor right now, but it makes me wonder if your truly going to give the doctor a chance in the future series. I know you don't see it now, but the doctor is a wonderful mayenne. Peter Capadi is a wonderful actor and he makes 12 a wonderful doctor, and I am afraid your not even gonna try to see the good at him in the future.

WhoviVortex

The baby laying an egg is a little bit silly, but I do enjoy the conclusion with Clara; she finally gives The Doctor some perspective on how he's been acting, + Danny's advice at the end is really good

otherboy
>>58242479

I feel like I always give characters a chance, but it’s up to them to change my mind. How we feel is how we feel and I can’t force myself to like a character or agree with a character if I don’t. I have no idea how I’ll feel about him in the future because I haven’t seen his entire run as you have. Anything is possible. I hated Owen in Torchwood for awhile, but grew fond of him towards the end of his run. But I can’t be anything but honest and I call out what I see, the good and the bad. So far the bad has outweighed the good for this Doctor in my opinion and it seems like it has for Clara as well. I’m sure they will reconcile, probably in the next episode, but she can’t just flip a switch and like him again and neither can I. Maybe I’ll like him in the future, maybe I won’t but thankfully I don’t need to like him as much as previous doctors in order to enjoy the show.🙂 Also I’ve criticized every Doctor so far in some way when I disagreed with their actions so let’s keep watching and see what happens.

Lloyd B

Great commentary and discussion, as always. However, I don't really think there was an intention to make this episode a critique on abortion. It was far more about the Doctor's duplicity and manipulation- putting Clara in that dreadful position. Its not that he doesn't care about humanity or the people he is with - he cares deeply and passionately, but he doesn't know at this stage how to show it. He honestly thought he was doing the right thing, and was genuinely perplexed and hurt by Clara's reaction. But I agree her response was fully justified, and he needed to hear it. Jenna's performance at the end was superb and lifted what was otherwise a rather mediocre episode. Keep in mind that tbe Doctor has always been manipulative and secretive - just that some are more so than others. This story in fact was originally written with Matt Smith in mind, but they felt it would be better suited to Capaldi's Doctor so held it off until he started. Small bit of trivia - the astronaut Duke (the second one to die) was played by Tony Osoba, who appeared in two classic DW stories: Destiny of the Daleks with the 4th Doctor, and Dragonfyre with the 7th Doctor (playing different characters in each). And Henry, the first to die, was played by Phil Nice, who had a small role in Torchwood Miracle Day.

Will

The next two episodes are two of my favourite Doctor Who episodes. 😀

Cocofalafel

It was kinda like the Fires of Pompeii and The Beast Below.. with a big red button and a difficult choice to kill innocent people/alien creature or save the whole earth. I think Doctor Who loves to recycle concepts and storylines.

Anonymous

no matter what she choose shes gonna die without the doctor that's not a choice that's threaten

Cocofalafel

He's testing the waters with Clara pushing the limit maybe even wanting her to hate him so that when she does eventually leave like everyone has, it will hurt less for the both of them. Spiteful and callous though. Very 'alien' indeed.

Mark Ward
>>58237442

Abortion is very much not a big thing in the UK any more. There is literally no debate about it here in most of the country.

DeathSwitch

This is probably my least favourite episode of Capaldi as the Doctor, honestly. He did go too far here. I agree with him completely that it shouldnt be up to him what happens to the Moon baby, as its not his Moon (i sound ridiculous lmao) but he couldve at least stayed in the same room and given all the facts that he knew or theories about what could happen to help them instead of literally dusting his hands of the whole thing and disappearing. Yeah, didnt like that. I realise he thought he was giving Clara a challenge to solve but maybe let her take the lead on a smaller mission that doesnt involve killing a baby first go out. Probably explains why Clara was a bit harsh, id be pissed too! Anyway, need the lows in friendships to appreciate the highs. Interested to see how you react to the rest of the season.

Henry from CO
>>58301863

Perhaps you're right, however I always felt his occasional rudeness and dismissive attitude in general made Twelve feel more alien, like he was still trying to work things out dealing with humans. Also because he genuinely seemed confused at Clara's anger for leaving her with the final decision on the moon's fate. And it all made Brandon's reaction to that scene great which was so enjoyable to watch. Cheers.

Daryl

I'm not sure I see pro life pro choice in this story. I do see pro life, it that it makes the case for a life. The parent isn't in this story. The three women who are being forced to make the decision driven by the circumstances are not the parent. You could make a loose case for government interference as a parallel. This is more a degree of semantics by this point. Also The Doctor intervenes all the time, but not generally in natural disasters. More alien attacks or other conflicts driven from humankind's own innate ability for self preservation. This might be the latter I guess. The difference here is he is claiming that this event is more influx and that it is a jumping off point for how their future develops. He wants them to make that choice on their own. But still cares enough to add someone in to the mix, whom he trusts and believes will make the right choice as he see it. When he is on the beach after the moon egg hatches. It's like he is suddenly seeing how the future will map out after Clara made that choice to stop the bomb. How he sees time and space. Clara rightly feels manipulated by someone she cares for. The lesson he is trying to teach the teacher gets lots in that ugly manipulation. As far as importance. Courtney Woods is just a girl presumably at the beginning of her life. She does have a desire to feel important. Does The Doctor have the obligation to give that to her. Does any degree of "importance" translate within the vastness of all time and space is a matter of subjective self assessment. He may have put her in danger but he also made her part of these important events. I think it's more important how she sees herself rather than how The Doctor sees her as a degree of importance. As far as being a future President, he has just given her a glimpse of what it is like to make difficult choices. Will that make her any more "important" than some one who grows up to serve the community in some other manner. Again great reaction and some interesting after thoughts, these are just some of mine.

otherboy
>>58458559

I saw pro life/pro choice in the episode as a metaphor not literal so it didn’t matter that none of the women were the parent. The writer deliberately put the decision in the hands of all the women. But it was a decision they shouldn’t have had to make alone. They didn’t have all the information either. The Doctor has infinitely more info about the universe and alien creatures and his conjectures would’ve been helpful. It wasn’t helpful for him to simply say it was a living being. There have been plenty of living beings that have threatened the human race. And that’s what the astronaut and the people of Earth were afraid of. Clara became afraid of that too but she went with hope instead, but she said she almost didn’t and it was a terrible position to be put in by the Doctor. The pro life implications for me were that the episode seemed to say that a life is a life is a life. No exceptions. It felt a little preachy and simplistic to me when this was not a black and white situation and neither is abortion. It almost doesn’t matter that everything turned out to be fine. The point is that it was a highly stressful, complicated situation that neither Clara or a fifteen year old should’ve been put through at all let alone without the Doctor’s help. If it was as simple as all life is important don’t kill then Clara wouldn’t have been upset. Because she wanted to spare the life of this giant baby alien but what about the lives of the Earth? She had no way of knowing that the alien was peaceful and would just lay an egg. The Doctor may not have known exactly what would happen but he had his suspicions and decided to let Clara handle it because he knew she would make the right decision. But she didn’t know and that’s why she’s upset.

Daryl

Indeed. I figured the point was that there was no way to know what would happen. That was the crux of the problem. That is the grey area for me. As far as the metaphor, I do see your point but I don't share it personally. Because I came away feeling that both courses of action were depicted as reasonable simply because the outcome was so uncertain from their point of view. I felt both points were argued well. I don't know what was in the writers mind only how the episode makes me think. But it's not about me being right and you being wrong, but the sharing in interpretations. If the Doctor had told them what the right choice was, with any foreknowledge he perhaps, or let's be honest, probably had. Perhaps their future would have been different, perhaps not. I felt it was about, this event, setting into play a chain of events shaping the future for the human race. More impactfull than having The Doctor leading them to the right choice. Well for me anyway. I got from the episode the idea of approaching the notion of the fear of the unknown. The absence of information leading to the idea that it could be a threat. Doesn't help that the earth has been attacked so much by aliens and other strange stuff. lol Probably ill advised to make it an egg I think.