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Polls and characters that have already won previously (Patreon)

Published:
2017-05-29 17:19:01
Edited:
2018-02-22 21:07:04
Imported:
Tags:

Poll

Polls and characters that have already won previously

  • I don't give a fuck about variety, I just want more pics with Valeera, Sylvanas and Alexstrasza! 159
  • Ban all the characters that have already been drawn, give others a chance! 23
  • As a compromise, put drawn chars on some sort of cooldown, like a year or smth 292
  • 2017-05-29
  • 474 votes
{'title': 'Polls and characters that have already won previously', 'choices': [{'text': "I don't give a fuck about variety, I just want more pics with Valeera, Sylvanas and Alexstrasza!", 'votes': 159}, {'text': 'Ban all the characters that have already been drawn, give others a chance!', 'votes': 23}, {'text': 'As a compromise, put drawn chars on some sort of cooldown, like a year or smth', 'votes': 292}], 'closes_at': None, 'created_at': datetime.datetime(2017, 5, 29, 17, 19, 1, tzinfo=datetime.timezone.utc), 'description': None, 'allows_multiple': True, 'total_votes': 474}

Content

It's quite disadvantageous for patrons who want some less popular characters to be drawn. Suggest a big and popular warcraft character like Sylvanas/Valeera/Jaina and your option wins automatically. We've already done all of those 2 times, 1st when we did single-character images, 2nd time in pairings. I refuse when they suggest these characters again, but they keep suggesting it every month anyway. On the other hand, what if we totally run out  of any known characters people would vote for,  and have only options no one would ever care about?
What do you think?

Comments

personalami

And ofc I'm not sure about a year in the 3rd option. It seems pretty big at 1st glance, but on the other hand make it half a year and it will become a neverending Sylvanas/Valeera/Jaina/Alexstrasza/Tyrande/Ysera cycle. Need your opinions.

Antsstyle

Personally I feel like it would be good to have a system where non-Warcraft characters can have their own poll once every few months, or as you suggested, putting them on some sort of cooldown. At the moment I feel like there's not much point for anyone to be on the $10 tier (in terms of rewards) unless they're intending to suggest popular Warcraft characters, which makes this sort of self-fulfilling prophecy that only said characters get suggested a lot of the time, since those who would suggest other ideas don't pledge to that tier knowing their suggestion will almost definitely lose.

Bloodmastery

1 year sounds a bit much, maybe a few months?

personalami (edited)

Comment edits

2021-07-20 00:25:55 Yea that's what I'm talking about. Tho we already have a non-Warcraft poll every month. It even made me stop wasting evening spare time on mobas and shit. Finally I finished DA:O when was drawing Morrigan & Leliana, played through Nier and stuff.
2017-05-29 17:29:06 Yea that's what I'm talking about. Tho we already have a non-Warcraft poll every month. It even made me stop wasting evening spare time on mobas and shit. Finally I finished DA:O when was drawing Morrigan & Leliana, played through Nier and stuff.
>>5398996

Yea that's what I'm talking about. Tho we already have a non-Warcraft poll every month. It even made me stop wasting evening spare time on mobas and shit. Finally I finished DA:O when was drawing Morrigan & Leliana, played through Nier and stuff.

Antsstyle
>>5398996

My understanding is that the majority of your patrons are here for your Warcraft art - so perhaps once every 3 months we can have a non-Warcraft poll? (Obviously that time interval is up to you) Still, it's very much dependent on what you guys will enjoy doing most, so I think you can either do that or set some kind of cooldown on specific characters according to how often you want to be drawing them.

personalami (edited)

Comment edits

2021-07-20 00:25:54 >It seems pretty big at 1st glance, but on the other hand make it half a year and it will become a neverending Sylvanas/Valeera/Jaina/Alexstrasza/Tyrande/Ysera cycle.
2017-05-29 17:30:02 >It seems pretty big at 1st glance, but on the other hand make it half a year and it will become a neverending Sylvanas/Valeera/Jaina/Alexstrasza/Tyrande/Ysera cycle.
>>5399033

>It seems pretty big at 1st glance, but on the other hand make it half a year and it will become a neverending Sylvanas/Valeera/Jaina/Alexstrasza/Tyrande/Ysera cycle.

Antsstyle
>>5398996

Hmmm.... I want to suggest some way of having a poll with both Warcraft and non-Warcraft characters that has some kind of balance shift, but I'm not sure how that would work. Give me a little while to think, and I'll try to come up with some ideas ^^

personalami
>>5398996

Again, every month we have 2 polls, one with warcraft allowed and one with warcraft forbidden. Just warcraft forbidden in the 2nd one, not blizzard in general tho.

Eitan Arad

I definitely came because I loved all your pictures of Warcraft/other blizzard characters, but I do think some variety would be good. Perhaps once a quarter, have a dedicated non-warcraft character month. Alternatively, you could alternate between warcraft/non warcraft every other piece. That way people still get their favorite characters, but it introduces more variety.

personalami
>>5399230

That's actually how it works already, 2 polls, one of them non-warcraft :) What I mean is, there are few big and popular female characters within the warcraft universe. They suggest them every month and they win every poll obviously cuz they are that popular. I am a patron who longs for a r34 pic with that girl who sells bread in Elwynn forest for decades. But I got no chance cuz Sylvanas won the poll again. That's what I'm talking about.

Antsstyle
>>5398996

Yeah, I understand. I wonder if it's worth making the second poll non-Blizzard, though? Looking back, Overwatch made for three of the non-Warcraft pieces, and it might be worth making that ban include Blizzard stuff so it gives your overall portfolio more diversity, as it were.

Antsstyle
>>5398996

In terms of the bigger Warcraft characters, my opinion is to ban them until other characters have been drawn and you're happy to draw them again, rather than setting some specific time limit (imo it will be hard to come up with a time limit that makes much sense, rather than just deciding when you feel it's the right time to allow characters back in the polls)

Kale (edited)

Comment edits

2021-07-20 00:25:50 Reddit balloons. If a character in a suggestion has been drawn before, take the number of times it has been drawn. Divide vote count by that number. So if Sylvanas has been drawn thrice, and has 200 votes. And Tyrande has been drawn twice and has 100 votes. And 2B has been drawn once and has 75 votes. 2B would win because 75>(200/3)>(100/2) Of course this would require you to keep track of how many times each character has been drawn. I don't think that would be hard, maybe a 1 time 1 hour effort followed by a quick check mark at every successful poll. But effort is effort and should be considered.
2017-05-29 17:48:52 Reddit balloons. If a character in a suggestion has been drawn before, take the number of times it has been drawn. Divide vote count by that number. So if Sylvanas has been drawn thrice, and has 200 votes. And Tyrande has been drawn twice and has 100 votes. And 2B has been drawn once and has 75 votes. 2B would win because 75>(200/3)>(100/2) Of course this would require you to keep track of how many times each character has been drawn. I don't think that would be hard, maybe a 1 time 1 hour effort followed by a quick check mark at every successful poll. But effort is effort and should be considered.

Reddit balloons. If a character in a suggestion has been drawn before, take the number of times it has been drawn. Divide vote count by that number. So if Sylvanas has been drawn thrice, and has 200 votes. And Tyrande has been drawn twice and has 100 votes. And 2B has been drawn once and has 75 votes. 2B would win because 75>(200/3)>(100/2) Of course this would require you to keep track of how many times each character has been drawn. I don't think that would be hard, maybe a 1 time 1 hour effort followed by a quick check mark at every successful poll. But effort is effort and should be considered.

Antsstyle
>>5399405

That seems a good idea... I guess for pairings you'd need to average the number of times each char has been drawn (e.g. char drawn 2 times + char drawn 3 times = divide vote count for pairing by 2.5) This'd also mean not having to decide when a character should or shouldn't be allowed back in the polls, which is handy.

Kale
>>5399405

Honestly I'd say keep it simple. As little math as possible. Just one thing to keep in mind: whichever character has been featured the most. When you start averaging things may get annoying as you then have to cross reference different numbers and get that average first. There's no point in absolute fairness when 'just about' will do just as well.

personalami
>>5399405

Well yeah, I'd be that simple only in case of single-character options, but we have pairings.

Kale
>>5399405

It's my advice to keep it simple to avoid annoyance with the system. The decision, of course, is yours in the end. You decide what you think is best.

Eddie Murphy

I know you do a lot of WoW art, and that's kind of your thing (don't get me wrong, I love your WoW art!), but there has to be other characters and properties that your followers are into. I myself, for example, love characters from RWBY (I really want to see you make a BlakeXYang piece!), Nintendo, Final Fantasy, Star Wars, DC/Marvel comics, and there have been quite a few recent video games that have given us some lovely characters (Overwatch, Nier Automata, Horizon: Zero Dawn to name a few) that I would love to see drawn by you. I certainly wouldn't mind seeing more art outside of WoW, if you were interested in drawing them. I've actually long hoped that you'd maybe split the polls up, maybe doing a poll for WoW and a poll for other properties, so some other characters have a chance to be drawn by you. Just my two pence; I hope it helps!

personalami (edited)

Comment edits

2021-07-20 00:25:48 I actually did the split and we have a monthly non-warcraft poll for half a year already :) >What I mean is, there are few big and popular female characters within the warcraft universe. They suggest them every month and they win every poll obviously cuz they are that popular. >I am a patron who longs for a r34 pic with that girl who sells bread in Elwynn forest for decades. But I got no chance cuz Sylvanas won the poll again. That's what I'm talking about.
2017-05-29 19:12:29 I actually did the split and we have a monthly non-warcraft poll for half a year already :) >What I mean is, there are few big and popular female characters within the warcraft universe. They suggest them every month and they win every poll obviously cuz they are that popular. >I am a patron who longs for a r34 pic with that girl who sells bread in Elwynn forest for decades. But I got no chance cuz Sylvanas won the poll again. That's what I'm talking about.
>>5400500

I actually did the split and we have a monthly non-warcraft poll for half a year already :) >What I mean is, there are few big and popular female characters within the warcraft universe. They suggest them every month and they win every poll obviously cuz they are that popular. >I am a patron who longs for a r34 pic with that girl who sells bread in Elwynn forest for decades. But I got no chance cuz Sylvanas won the poll again. That's what I'm talking about.

Eddie Murphy
>>5400500

Huh. Wow; not sure how I didn't notice that one of the polls didn't have any WoW characters in them... Shows how much attention I've been paying, I guess :-P And thank you for the clarification, now I understand properly. I feel (and voted thusly) that the cool down for X amount of time, whatever you decide, for those very popular characters (Sylvanus, Jaina, etc.) is probably the best middle ground. It gives those lesser-known characters a better chance at being drawn, but allows the popular characters to come back at some point to win the poll and be drawn again, which will make the fans of those characters (obviously there's a lot of fans) happy to see them drawn by you again.

suntiger745

Maybe a cooldown. Every 3 or 4 months you can suggest chara ters that have been drawn already, anf the other times you can only pick characters that have not been drawn before.

Tashi Gibson

I don't know :D I'm quite fine with the Warcraft stuff you draw. It is totally amazing. I think the smaller characters that are just so much lesser known will never be voted for by the majority... Guess that's what commissions are for, then.

suntiger745

Another option, aside from the cooldown, is to have the patrons suggest themes and you as the artist pick the characters, known or OC's. Like pirates, maids, ww2 pin ups, superheroes, steampunk, stone age, office workers, starship crew, faeries, 16th century french court, ninjas, imperial japan, scientists, post-apocalypse etc I think you can get more variety with the themes instead of specific characters, althought that should still be an option some months. :)

personalami
>>5401978

That's what I thought, but 3 months is nothing, considering there is only one warcraft poll a month. It might become a Sylvanas-Valeera-Alexstrasza cycle every 3 months

Cederien
>>5399405

Personally in the case of pairings I would simply use the divisor of the character that has been drawn more often, just like Wouter suggested. It's just simpler. Yes it's tough on the less 'common' character but well such is life. Besides people can (and certainly will) take that into account quickly enough when making their suggestions. Which hopefully leads to more varied suggestions as well. I certainly like this solution best (one way or another as you please). Failing that a 'CD' of 12-18 months (I think 12 months might actually be a tad short) might work just as well.

suntiger745
>>5401978

More stricter divisions maybe? Month1: Select 2 themes, month2: select 2 famous Blizzard characters & 2 famous non-blizzard characters. Month3: select 2x2 OC characters, month 4: select 2 obscure Blizzard characters & 2 obscure non-blizzard characters. Month5: start the cycle again with the themes.

suntiger745
>>5401978

Or even stricter, you choose a game/film/book we can pick characters from that month. :)

suntiger745

Yet another option is to have the patrons pick the themes and characters sometimes, and sometimes you as the artist picks the themes/characters and we just vote. I'm all for more veriety either way. :)

Tiefling

Variety is the spice of life.

Traxton

Great idea Personalami! a cooldown would not hurt, and a small idea on the Polls you do, when we are offerd to choose say Jimy and Nova or Sylvanas and Valeera, you always write the names and for us who dont know who every one are it could be easier to do like Group 1, Group 2, Group3, etc and then group 1 would be Jimy and Nova and group 2 Sylvanas and valeera, Easier to vote without knowing everyones name :D

Ben Fordrin
>>5399405

I still prefer this option. Everytime a character gets drawn, he gains one Rank = Divide value for votes. Everytime this character was on a poll, but didn't win, he looses one rank. Rank stays untouched everytime character is not on a poll. So the cooldown of a single character will stay longer. Finally split polls in "High ranked" and "Low Ranked" and "Mixed" Characters, repeating every 3 Months. This sounds complex, but after a short warm up, it isn't and grants a nice balance between Warcraft Characters and Non-Warcraft Characters. And you still have a lot of variety. In case of pairs, the lowest rank will be accounted. You will have to maintain a Ranklist to keep this system alive but this could be also fun if you maybe draw some sort of sexy leaderboard :-)

ObligedUniform

Cooldown seems very fair. If you end up doing more work per month eventually, then the cooldown could be decreased as needed.

justme

I think your current system is quite fair. The only thing I would change is you telling us in the Suggestion thread what your definition of recent is, I never know when it's been long enough. My question for you is: Is this discussion motivated by you feeling like popular characters are keeping less popular characters from getting chosen or by artistic burnout on drawing certain characters. If it's the first maybe say next month say no characters I've ever drawn in the poles, then do that every so many months, may get people thinking about characters from other sources and the problem may solve itself after a year or so.

Admiral Piet
>>5399405

About keeping the math simple: An Excel sheet would be ideally suited for this. Chart one contains a list of all chars with numbers they have been drawn. On chart two you only have to fill in the names and the number of votes, formulas then search for the divisor of each char, calculate the pairing divisor and highlight the highest number. If you would like I could try and make one for you once I am back from work

personalami
>>5399405

@Ben 1st of all that sounds complicated, 2nd it's not about balance between wow and non-wow, as we have a non-wow monthly poll.

personalami (edited)

Comment edits

2021-07-20 00:25:47 >The only thing I would change is you telling us in the Suggestion thread what your definition of recent is, I never know when it's been long enough. Thats what I want to figure out in discussion, what would be a fair definition of recent. >keeping less popular characters from getting chosen or by artistic burnout on drawing certain characters No I wouldn't say its a burnout, it's just seeing certain patrons suggesting a same option for a year but never getting a chance cuz Sylvanas won again. On the other hand she won for a reason, majority voted for her. Letting down the majority isn't goon either. I know you can't be good for everyone but still gotta try to find some middle-ground.
2017-05-30 06:41:20 >The only thing I would change is you telling us in the Suggestion thread what your definition of recent is, I never know when it's been long enough. Thats what I want to figure out in discussion, what would be a fair definition of recent. >keeping less popular characters from getting chosen or by artistic burnout on drawing certain characters No I wouldn't say its a burnout, it's just seeing certain patrons suggesting a same option for a year but never getting a chance cuz Sylvanas won again. On the other hand she won for a reason, majority voted for her. Letting down the majority isn't goon either. I know you can't be good for everyone but still gotta try to find some middle-ground.
>>5406547

>The only thing I would change is you telling us in the Suggestion thread what your definition of recent is, I never know when it's been long enough. Thats what I want to figure out in discussion, what would be a fair definition of recent. >keeping less popular characters from getting chosen or by artistic burnout on drawing certain characters No I wouldn't say its a burnout, it's just seeing certain patrons suggesting a same option for a year but never getting a chance cuz Sylvanas won again. On the other hand she won for a reason, majority voted for her. Letting down the majority isn't goon either. I know you can't be good for everyone but still gotta try to find some middle-ground.

Okinsha Haoura (edited)

Comment edits

2021-07-20 00:25:42 Seems pretty simple to me personally. If you feel that a certain character has been drawn too frequently, veto it and pick second place. Your supporters love your art; but personally, I would censor over-picked characters from the public polls. (And repeat suggestions that are below a certain vote threshold perhaps, maybe a 2-4 month ban.) Have to admit; I am personally quite tired of seeing "Spider-Gwen & Gwenpool, Marvel" (or some combination) for months and months on end, it's quite apparent that a single person wants this; but this suggestion translates to '-1 options' or even '-2 options' to most people, as it has appeared in BOTH monthly polls on occasion (started going back through the polls, stopped at December of last year, months on end of a wasted slot...) The idea of a democracy is nice, but when you're limited to a select group of people that get to suggest options, you're at the mercy of those people suggesting "Spider-Gwen" for 6+ months in a row. If you're getting enough suggestions from the tier of patron that you currently have, silently veto some suggestions. If not, consider opening the suggestions to the public. Just because some people aren't donating a certain amount of money each month doesn't mean that they don't have good ideas, that increased pool of suggestions is still at the mercy of a public vote, and it might give the voters an option that they didn't know that they wanted. Much love, An adoring fan.
2017-05-30 12:04:03 Seems pretty simple to me personally. If you feel that a certain character has been drawn too frequently, veto it and pick second place. Your supporters love your art; but personally, I would censor over-picked characters from the public polls. (And repeat suggestions that are below a certain vote threshold perhaps, maybe a 2-4 month ban.) Have to admit; I am personally quite tired of seeing "Spider-Gwen & Gwenpool, Marvel" (or some combination) for months and months on end, it's quite apparent that a single person wants this; but this suggestion translates to '-1 options' or even '-2 options' to most people, as it has appeared in BOTH monthly polls on occasion (started going back through the polls, stopped at December of last year, months on end of a wasted slot...) The idea of a democracy is nice, but when you're limited to a select group of people that get to suggest options, you're at the mercy of those people suggesting "Spider-Gwen" for 6+ months in a row. If you're getting enough suggestions from the tier of patron that you currently have, silently veto some suggestions. If not, consider opening the suggestions to the public. Just because some people aren't donating a certain amount of money each month doesn't mean that they don't have good ideas, that increased pool of suggestions is still at the mercy of a public vote, and it might give the voters an option that they didn't know that they wanted. Much love, An adoring fan.

Seems pretty simple to me personally. If you feel that a certain character has been drawn too frequently, veto it and pick second place. Your supporters love your art; but personally, I would censor over-picked characters from the public polls. (And repeat suggestions that are below a certain vote threshold perhaps, maybe a 2-4 month ban.) Have to admit; I am personally quite tired of seeing "Spider-Gwen & Gwenpool, Marvel" (or some combination) for months and months on end, it's quite apparent that a single person wants this; but this suggestion translates to '-1 options' or even '-2 options' to most people, as it has appeared in BOTH monthly polls on occasion (started going back through the polls, stopped at December of last year, months on end of a wasted slot...) The idea of a democracy is nice, but when you're limited to a select group of people that get to suggest options, you're at the mercy of those people suggesting "Spider-Gwen" for 6+ months in a row. If you're getting enough suggestions from the tier of patron that you currently have, silently veto some suggestions. If not, consider opening the suggestions to the public. Just because some people aren't donating a certain amount of money each month doesn't mean that they don't have good ideas, that increased pool of suggestions is still at the mercy of a public vote, and it might give the voters an option that they didn't know that they wanted. Much love, An adoring fan.

Ben Fordrin
>>5399405

I know. It's just an addition. It will also give often voted characters an adorable cooldown. I know it sounds complicated. But since we are talking about 2-3 polls a month (right?) it's really doable i think. But okay, maybe someone else got an easier solution.