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April 9: Fixed a module 9 problem for people who don't have the Cats and Dogs pack.

April 2:

- Fixed up the moodlets for the 'Talk about Career' part of the adoption visit. The wrong things were displaying because I got the moodlet texts mixed up (ie unemployment was textually showing as work and high level jobs displayed at standard level).

- Made the adoption home visit a bit shorter. (You can absolutely close it manually when you're done giving info to the agent so no worries about that, it doesn't do any harm!)

2 hours after release:
-
fixed an issue with the adoption home visit happening when it shouldn't or not happening when it should in special cases that escaped our testing of yesterday. Please re download :)

- Fixed an oversight which would make it harder for our poor Elder sims to adopt :(

------------  New in v2.3:  ----------

- Added the current version of the Adoption module, which I will call a partial release as it doesn't have all its intended features yet.

- Sims can now choose to keep a child they carried for someone else

- Fixed an oversight causing siblings to show up in the list for artificial insemination. Things like that are NEVER intended so, if you notice something of the like, do notify me :)

- Made it possible for sims to use their partner as source for artificial insemination, after popular request :)

- Fixed up the 'fake names' add on for WTDs.

Check out the module 9 partial release description & instructions to learn about the features of module 9's partial release and how to use them. You may be confused otherwise.

Or look at the Mod Description Masterpost if you want to look at the description for all modules.

NOTE: There is a NEW (since the latest two updates) GAME bug (ie not a mod bug but an EA bug) that causes baby icons to look a different skin tone from the actual baby. This may happen to the babies your Sim gets from surrogates and carries for others AND all the babies will look dark skinned when picking a child for adoption. Here's an EA bug report page about it for example, if you want to read more.

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TRANSLATIONS AVAILABLE (grab the Mod AND a translation if you need):

- French / Français by Kimikosoma
- German by HendrickMcSims
- Russian by Origamika
- Portuguese by Ayrthwil
- Chinese by ttchub
- Spanish by Onnya - temporarily unavailable (ahora no esta disponible)

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FULL MOD DESCRIPTION LINKS

(THESE ARE MOD DESCRIPTION LINKS - FILES ARE ON THE CURRENT PAGE!)
All Modules Index
V2 Update - Changes & What's New in v2
Module 1: Pregnancy Preferences
Module 2 - Risk and Protection, Fertility
Module 3 - WooHoo Transmissible Diseases
Module 4 - Paternity Testing 
Module 5 - Teen Pregnancy Stuff
Module 6 - Pregnancy Acceptance
Module 7 - Cheating
Module 8: Alternative Pregnancies (Artificial Insemination & Surrogacy)
Module 9: Adoption Overhaul, Partial Release
(UPCOMING) Module 10: Break Up, Make Up, & In Between (Exp. April)

AddOn 1 - Termination of Pregnancy
AddOn 2 - Pregnancy Side Effects
(UPCOMING) AddOn3 - Romantic Trust
(UPCOMING) AddOn 4 - Post-Pregnancy Recovery System
(UPCOMING) AddOn 5 - Social Judgment
(UPCOMING) AddOn 6 - The Love Languages
(UPCOMING) AddOn 7 - Miscarriages and Birth Complications
(UPCOMING) AddOn 8 - WooHoo Drive, Etcetera
(UPCOMING) AddOn 9 - Autonomy, Autonomy, Autonomous Drama!


Upcoming additions to existing modules: Expansions to WTDs and Teen Module, Rewriting of some moodlets.
(THESE ARE MOD DESCRIPTION LINKS - FILES ARE ON THE CURRENT PAGE!)

- WTD module: UTIs left untreated cause hospitalization, ut this feature doesn't work properly as of now. If your Sim gets to that point, cure the disease with the cheat under "Actions" then "WTD Cheats".

- Teen module: in some people's games, teen get no pregnant belly. Everything else works as intended.

- Abortion: for now I removed 'ask to accompany to abortion' as it refuses to work properly now and the sims don't go properly. It'll come back whenever I've found a workaround.

- Pregnancy Acceptance: the 'accepted pregnancy' trimester moodlets may vanish upon traveling. It is advised to not travel if the moodlet disappearing would bother you. Not sure I can solution that one anytime soon.

- Alternative Pregnancy:
- the 'surrogate pregnancy' trimester moodlets may vanish upon traveling. It is advised to not travel if the moodlet disappearing would bother you. Not sure I can solution that one anytime soon.

- Some people have configurations or conflicts as yet to be clearly identified causing the interactions to give the surrogate babies to their parents to not show up on the baby. For these cases, there are debug interactions in place. See image below.

Many thanks to the Special Agents deww.drp, ToriGamez, Mia16, and RavenAstra over at Discord for their testing and conversation.
Thank you to testers over at Discord.
Many thanks to Frank for script help to improve the auto-assignment systems and save me an override or two. I appreciate Frank so very much!
Thanks to Triplis as well :)

There are no known mod conflicts for this mod other than what is listed below.

!!! MODDERS!!!: Need to test for pregnancy / trimesters and can't test for moodlets as you want your mod to be compatible with this mod? It's deadly easy - test for trimester Object States instead of moodlets! Look at the EA interaction 'Share Big News' if you don't know what I mean, and you'll find what test to use there. Ask me for more info if you need! :)

Mods that are FULLY incompatible
- ArtUrlWWW's Mega Pregnancy Mod.

That's it. Yes SoL is compatible, etc etc etc. For Turbodriver's mods, check a little below for full compatibility breakdown.

_____
Override information: 
0000000000003607 pregnancy_startShowing
0000000000012FDE loot_Pregnancy_InLabor_Notification
0000000000002B4F TakePregnancyTest_Loot
0000000000012607_buff_Pregnancy_InLabor (Module 5)
0000000000019A3D_phone_TakeFamilyLeave
000000000003AAB8_RWL_AddSentiment_CaughtCheater_TAboutA (Module 7)
000000000003E438_RWL_AddSentiment_CaughtCheater_AAboutT (Module 7)

************ Compatibility Adjustments************

MC WOOHOO: INcompatible with module 2 and 8 IF Risk setting is not on 0%. If on 0%, all is fine ;)

LMS's Miscarriage mod: Compatible BUT:

If a miscarriage happens, I advise clearing pregnancy markers manually in my mod (under 'Family and Pregnancy' then 'Sim Status'. If a miscarriage happens from that mod for an alternative pregnancy from my mod, you ABSOLUTELY HAVE TO clear those markers.

****

- Have Wonderful Whims?
Download the file that says 'WonderfulWhimsCompatible'. If you remove Wonderful Whims at some point, you'll need to re-download the 'normal' version of my mod. The compatibility version has adjustments and truncated features (mainly, NO PREGNANCY RISK AT ALL) to work seamlessly with Wonderful Whims, but will not work properly on its own.

TIP: With the Compatibility version, you will keep "Native Pregnancy Override" checked (enabled) in Wonderful Whims. Turbodriver's mod provides the pregnancy risk so his settings apply.

- Have WW?
     - My mod can't apply to WW interactions, only to WooHoo and Try fo Baby.
     - If you want to use my birth control system (and WTDs if you want) for  WooHoo, adjust a WW setting:
  - Go to WW's "Pregnancy Settings"
  - Scroll to the bottom; there, uncheck "Native Pregnancy override"

TIP: if you want to use my paternity system but not my protection & WTD system, this setting can be left on 'on'

- Have MCCC’s optional WooHoo module?
The mods will be compatible if you set risky woohoo in Mc to 0.

Most elements of this mod are optional:

- You CANNOT remove the Core files.

- You CAN remove any of the following files / modules:

o Risk&Protection (pregnancy risk, protection & fertility)
o PregnancyTermination (abortions)
o WTDs (WooHoo Transmissible Diseases – REQUIRES Risk & Protection installed)
o PaternityTesting (paternity tests etc)
o TeenPregnancy (teen pregnancy and reactions to teen pregnancy)
o PregnancyAcceptance (possibility of acceptance of unwanted pregnancy)
o CheatingModule (reactions and interactions related to cheating)
o AlternativePregnancy (Surrogates & artificial insemination processes)
o Adoption
- Want Fake Names for the WooHoo Transmissible Diseases?
Then download the "WTD_FakeNamesAddOn" file

Important note : In its version compatible with Wonderful Whims, my mod provides NO pregnancy risk. Wonderful Whims provides it. (In its normal version, my mod has its own risk system). This also means that some features are NOT available in the compatibility version.

DOWNLOAD STEPS:

1. First, REMOVE ALL PREVIOUS FILES from this mod.

That means, ALL files not from this very post. 

2. Secondly, DOWNLOAD ONE (and only one) ZIP File

- Download the "Normal" version for ALL circumstances EXCEPT if you have Turbodriver's Wonderful Whims (NOT Wicked) installed. If you have Wicked Whims, you need the Normal version of my mod.

- If you have WonderfulWhims, you must download the compatibility version (it has altered / truncated features, and NO pregnancy risk, it's Wonderful Whims that provides it).

3. Then, IF NEEDED, Grab ADDITIONAL Files

- If you have Wicked Whims, also grab the ''AdditionalFileRequiredForWickedWhimsUsers'' package file.

- If you want fake names for the diseases: grab the WTD fake names package file;

- If you need a translation, click on the links for translations under Mod Description and find the translation needed on the translator's site.

************
NEED HELP? Check compatibility, download instructions and description links in this post. If they don't answer your question, contact me on Discord, here in comments or messages, or through the contact form on my website.

Find Index of All Mods here.

If you notice anything off please contact me! Happy to help and fix things if they need fixing.

Comments

Anonymous

You are amazing! Thank you so much!

Anonymous

I'm so excited!! Thanks!!

KeeRed Games

Yesss!! Been waiting for this overhaul. Can’t wait to try it out in game!

Anonymous

hey thank you for the mod. I dont know what is going on in my game but the adoption agent keeps popping up even though i dont want to adopt.

Anonymous

***here comes the adoption agent ready to assess you home*** this happened back to back

Nicolette Hogue

Yes I’m so excited. Also excited for the co parenting one. Will there be like a possible option where the like kids can go to other parent on weekends or have like a chooseable time. If it’s possible? Lol. Or choose they can live at the other household full time and then they randomly spawn on their time with you and functions like a roommate ? That would be coool.

Anonymous

I'm having the same issue where I'm getting a notification to adopt and he keeps showing up. My sim is also pregnant and I have WonderfulWhims as well

lumpinou

Hi! You just need to re download, I fixed it two hours after initial release, two tunings had the same number between another module and this one causing them to cross wires and do that if a sim is pregnant. Nobody at testing had a pregnant sim so we didn't notice. Sorry for the inconvenience!

lumpinou

I hope to give more detailed info soon on all the plans for that module, I'm pretty excited about it!

Anonymous

Hey, I'm trying to get MCCC fixed so I can download. When you say 'MC WOOHOO: INcompatible with module 2 and 8 IF Risk setting is not on 0%' is that the Risky Woohoo Percent setting?

Sam D.

I have been using LittleMsSams Foster Care mod- how will this update interact with that?

lumpinou

Probably not at all, I use all new tuning and no process involved should be able to conflict with anything. I didn't touch the original game adoption stuff, just made parallel ones, so that people can use all sorts of mods that use the game system without my mod being impacted or impacting it.

lumpinou

Yes. Mccc is fully compatible except for parts of Mc Woohoo, and Mc Woohoo risk settings aren't compatible with some of my modules unless risk is on 0 which simply turns it off. This because my mod has its own system for risk and protection and all that

Anonymous

I cannot click on and open the adoption decision letter, says "Add to Favorites" and that is it. :(

xzavia

the adoption agency keep pulling up at my house with the event and i never called for a adoption its really getting annoying lol i think its a glitch please fix :D

lumpinou

I have already, two hours after release yesterday. Sent a second email out to everyone. Was a crossed wires problem with when a sim is pregnant. Just re download :)

motherofpuppies

I can’t figure out for the life of me how to ask partner about adopting... or giving kids up for adoption... or starting your adoption process... is there some criteria in game that needs to be met? I put both parents to wanting kids :-/

lumpinou

They don't need to want kids. They just need to be either married, boyfriend, or lovers (in relationship status). Then the chat options are in 'family and Pregnancy' then 'adoption'

Stephanie Louise

Thank you so much for your continued work at creating amazing mods that add so much realism to the game. I have them all and love them. I have one quick question, when you have finished the rest of the adoption modules will they apply to adoptions that have already happened? For example if I have a sim put a baby up for adoption now with the current release, when you release the rest will that child be able to find it's birth parents or will that part only apply to new adoptions after that release? I hope that makes sense, I have a story line in mind and am not sure when I should start it.

Hannah Wood

So, just checking, are these the correct download links? (You say 2 hours after release you had to fix an issue, how do we know where the new links are and where the old links are or have the 'before fix' links been removed so that we can't accidentally download them?)

lumpinou

Hi and thanks for the nice words! I was trying to preserve retro-compatibility of the new additions onto the current module but to have all the features I want to have, it will have to be foregone. I may be able to offer cheats however for the transition period so that sims can be 'conformed' to the new additions through said cheats. Ideally I would say wait a little, but yeah I may be able to work something out then

lumpinou

Yes, it's all replaced, every time I update I remove previous downloads and put the up to date ones instead, so no risk for error, so long as the page is refreshed and not an old instance of the page in your browser. Thanks for taking the time ❤️

Anonymous

Hey! First, i just wanna say i love all your mods, could not play without them ! I Have one question... I juste installed the last version of Woohoo Wellness with the adoption module. However, when I play I don't see any adoption interactions, even if my Sims are married. Is there something I could have done wrong ?

lumpinou

To talk about adopting, that would be under 'family and Pregnancy' then 'adoption', nothing there ?

Anonymous

if I uncheck 'Native Pregnancy Override' with Wonderful Whims, will I be able to use the normal Woohoo Wellness instead? I love Wonderful for the attraction system, but I love WW's pregnancy system. Thank you! <3

lumpinou

To be honest I don't know. This is actually something someone was testing yesterday as they wanted the same thing. But not quite sure yet. If versions weren't already confusing everyone as it is, I would make another for just cases like the one you are asking about. Poteeeeentially, I could change things around a little in my wonderful version and have an extra add on file for people who want to use my risk system with wonderful, in which case thanks to these modifications settings in Wonderful would not matter other than needing to have pregnancy turned off otherwise you'd have double risk... Might be a bit complicated but I will think about it

Anonymous

I was just wondering if there is or will be an option for parents that do not accept their teenager's pregnancy to force them to put the child up for adoption?

lumpinou

I could make it an option that they ask / make a push for that yes, only thing is then the sim expecting makes the decision in the end, why not! If that fits what you are picturing still

steffimhkg

I've just done Alternative Pregnancies where my sims gets an NPC to be the surrogate. The NPC has already given birth based on the available interaction (says " Ask about pregnancy progress (Already gave birth)". After choosing that interaction, I get a reply from the NPC saying the child is ready to join the house but nothing happens. I've clicked on the interaction multiple times but no baby. I've checked your compatibility post and I have MC Command Center but risky woohoo is already set to 0. Is there anything else I'm supposed to do?

lumpinou

Do you have wicked whims and if so is native pregnancy override on? If not - was the risky woohoo at 0 also when you started the pregnancy? Other thing - how long was it in between getting the notification she was ready to give birth and your inviting her?

Anonymous

So I love your content and you are my favorite number one modder. But whyyy did my poor sim become a surrogate for a unmarried townie and find out later the male donor was my sims FATHER 😭 not upset at you at all cause that's how random rolls sometimes lol but I just about died.

Anonymous

Will the mod work without Module 9? I got a BE when downloading this version.

lumpinou

How so? There's no known errors so I'd need to know more. What does it say?

Anonymous

So I wanted to wait for my sim to find out she’s pregnant other than take the pregnancy test but it seems if they don’t take the pregnancy test the paternity interactions don’t pop up is that suppose to happen?

lumpinou

They should pop up still and I do remember they did. I'll re check things though in case I change something without thinking

Anonymous

hi this is my first time downloading mods, do I just need to download all of these files or just the first one?

lumpinou

Read download instructions, what you grab depends on what else you have in game. If you have no other mods whatsoever then just grab the file that says 'normal' in it, normally it's the first one in the list.

Anonymous

Hello :-) just joined so I can enjoy this cool mod - I don't have Wicked Wims so is the first link the only download I need for all the Woohoo Wellness features? Many thanks, Sarah x

lumpinou

Hi, yes the first link is it. (Also keep in mind mods are free to all, no need to be a subscriber - that does give you access to early releases though, and this version here is in early release.)

Anonymous

Hello, I have an issue, I download the good files but the mod don't appear in my game ...

lumpinou

What files did you grab? Did you extract the archive? Are the files no deeper than one subfolder in the mods folder?

Anonymous

Hello! Really excited to try the mod. I have downloaded it twice now (removed and retried) but it won't work/show up in game. I have searched for the download instructions and can''t find them. Can you link them please? (it is possible I am blind and did not see it.)

lumpinou

What files did you grab? Did you extract the archive? Are the files no deeper than one subfolder in the mods folder?

Anonymous

Hello! I'm really excited for the adoption module. I put my daughter Marta up for adoption. I went to the adoptive household to check on her. I'm not sure what happened, but now she's a boy named Jaime? Did something glitch?

lumpinou

Sorry that made me laugh a little. That's not supposed to happen for sure, normally if you go to the other household you see the kid there, the same kid that you put for adoption that is. I'll try again tomorrow but it was doing things correctly last I checked. Not sure what went on there

Anonymous

Hey! Love this mod but when I my sims get pregnant they take the pregnancy test but it doesnt show a result. I can make them pregnant with mccc, but then it doesnt give me the option to terminate pregnancy with phone or with the get an abortion button. What did I do wrong?

lumpinou

What other mods do you have that impact pregnancy? What do you have installed from this mod?

Anonymous

I love your work! My sim was a surrogate and went to the hospital to have the baby. I got the notification telling me to send the baby to its parents but when I clicked on the baby, sending her to them was not an option.

lumpinou

Go to 'family and Pregnancy' then 'status' and use the debug option to send the baby to its parents, that's the failsafe :)

Freyya_

Ok, so I finally have the time to try this one out! I downloaded it yesterday, and I see you fixed this already but... (- fixed an issue with the adoption home visit happening when it shouldn't or not happening when it should in special cases that escaped our testing of yesterday. Please re download) <---- That is happening to me xD Im not even adopting, I just made my sim be a surrogat and since then this dude stops by every 5 min and they want to approve me for adoption for some reason. :P

Freyya_

I have a new issue :o My sim was being a surrogate but miscarried, now she can't try to be a surrogate again bc it says "She needs to send away the previous surrogate child" but there is no child :o

lumpinou

Yes that is because the mod that did the miscarriage can't clear markers from my mod. You must clear them manually in 'family and Pregnancy' then 'status' :)

Patrick Meakins

hey any idea when the rest of the mod is released like where u can find the adoptive kids and family

Anonymous

So my Sim had twins, one i put up for the adoption, with the other one i dont have that option?

Anonymous

Hello, just wanted to truly thank you for your amazing work - this is my first time interacting on here since becoming a patron a few months ago. This mod and all the other ones you made add so much depth and drama to my game, I can never take them out. Can't wait to see what you come up with next :)

Anonymous

I can't seem to find the Paternity Test Module or Questioning a Baby's Paternity, etc. Does that only show up if the baby's conceived through WooHoo/TFB?

lumpinou

Yes it does. For WW stuff you need to use a manual interaction in my mod to mark Sims as Woohoo'd with. Under 'actions' then 'Woohoo Wellness mod' when clicking on other sim.

Anonymous

Is it possible with both wicked whim and this mod for my sims to have a miscarriage cause I have been trying to for a storyline I been doing

lumpinou

I have no idea how WW handles miscarriages. LMS's miscarriage mod works fine with my mod though

AllyCat

Just here to report a random issue! I haven't been playing with families much lately, so I hadn't had a pregnant sim with the new modules installed until today. My sim told her partner she was pregnant, and a few seconds later a notification popped up telling me an adoption agent was coming to evaluate my sim for adoption. Are the adoption convos autonomous? Like, could she have autonomously tried to adopt? I'm not sure, but I just wanted to mention it here. :-)

lumpinou

This is a bug I fixed a couple weeks ago, where two instance numbers were identical in the code and causing their effects to co occur. One of them related to pregnancy and the other to adoption, cause the adoption agent to show up endlessly when a sim on lot was pregnant 😂 there weren't any pregnant Sims during testing so nobody noticed!

AllyCat

I re-downloaded the module and everything is working perfectly. Thanks for your help!!

Anonymous

When is the next part coming for adopted children to be able to contact their birth parents? And does it work then also for children who already have been adopted

Dark Nebula

So I downloaded the mod got it installed and everything, but I can't seem to get my teen sim to get pregnant. I wanted to try this feature out but its not happening. I have had her fool around with her boyfriend several times but there is no option to take test or anything. HELP please!

lumpinou

Depends on what other mods you have that could affect pregnancy and could make this not work right

Dark Nebula

I don't have any other mods. I have the ones you posted in this forum, and wicked whims which I thought we needed.

lumpinou

It's not needed no. My mods work on their own. If you have WW, depending on settings, it may prevent the teen pregnancy from my mod from happening

Anonymous

Do think that these mods will ever be compatible with the WW native pregnancy override? Do you think that the paternity markers will ever be compatible with WW automatically?

Dark Nebula

Okay I am completely lost as to what to do. I got rid of WW, have enabled mods, uninstalled and reinstalled the game three times, nothing is working. Is there anything that I may be missing? All the videos I have seen don't show how to install these mods properly with the updated systems. There isnt even an option in game saying WhooHoo wellness anywhere.

Anonymous

So you just have to download the mod? Is there anything else you need to do or have to make it work?

Aliyah._Monae

Hi! I don't see an option to terminate? That sounds soo baaad but I left my Sim un-paused and she went wild at the club ...ugh, sorry lol I did check to make sure that I had everything properly installed and in its folder. I may just be overlooking it. I also checked my WW settings to make sure nothing was conflicting with it. I also just noticed that she isn't getting pregnancy buffs! Thx ♥

Anonymous

Hi I don't know if anyone else had this problem but for some reason one for my sim is registering that he didn't father my pregnant sims child but also registering that he did father the child

lumpinou

Sounds to me like something needed for the system could t go through... So you have any other mod affecting Woohoo / pregnancy / etc?

Tiffani Carter

I don't know where else to put this; I'm having a constant adoption event that just isn't going away, wasn't asked for, and never concludes. Even if you close it, they come back in a few days.

lumpinou

You need to re download. This was an issue solved weeks ago :) It had to do with Sims being pregnant on lot causing the adoption event because of two code elements having the same number.

Anonymous

Ive re-downloaded you mod (yesterday) as well as the wonderful wims newly updated mod and my sims are now getting pregnant every time they woohoo regardless of contraception. Ive tried it with WW contraception and with your mods contraception and she got pregnant both times.

lumpinou

Hi, can you turn off 'game / mods override' and see if that changes anything? Turbo and I are trying to see where the problem is. Also what are your pregnancy settings? In each mod

Anonymous

pregnancy risk ( your mod) is set to 25% (defult); I have pregnancy set by menstrual cycle in WW, birth control in WW is set to realistic, the override woohoo and try for baby is also checked in WW settings. I think thats it for both mods. and where is the "game/mods override"? is that a game setting or a mod setting?

lumpinou

It's a mod setting in Wonderful, it used to be called 'native pregnancy override', it's under 'pregnancy'. Try turning it off and see what happens. It is supposed to make my mod's system take over fully. Doing this could tell me if the issue is likely related to sth in the current pregnancy settings you have in Wonderful, or sth else that's just running amock form Wonderful but unrelated to actual pregnancy settings

Anonymous

ok unchecked that box in WW, restarted the game and tried again and she still got pregnant. I had her take a WW birth control pill and shes on the birth control from your mod as well and the male sim also wore a condom

lumpinou

OK, what if you hit 'disable pregnancy' in Wonderful in addition to this? There's something somewhere running amock, need to narrow down what. Once that is tested - also try enabling pregnancy again and using percentage pregnancy mode in Wonderful instead of cyclical, see if it does anything.

Anonymous

just tried she did NOT get pregnant with the disable pregnancy box checked.

lumpinou

OK, and if you leave that box checked and set my pregnancy risk to 100% and use a condom, do they get pregnant?

lumpinou

I have just tested in game and noticed that wonderful's condoms aren't being taken out when sims Woohoo. Doesn't explain why or why pregnancy is systematic, there's sth wrong for sure, but just trying to gather as much data as possible to share with Turbo tomorrow

Anonymous

tried that and she still got pregnant but i also noticed that his WW condom wasnt used but he did use the one from your mod.

lumpinou

It's all very strange. I took out my mod and Sims still aren't using condoms so that's sth on wonderful's end. However without my mod in, Sims don't get systematically pregnant, which suggests that what Turbo uses to determine my mod being in may be causing issues. Because my mod when in by itself is not doing this...